Mad at my advisor! Next steps?

[nehs]

I am a master's student and I have been working on my thesis for the last 6 months, slowly progressing. I came to the point where I felt ok, not my best, and decided to submit. My advisor had been reviewing all along as I wrote.

 

In my Department, my advisor goes through the thesis and then forwards it to the rest of the committee ( two others) and then if all approve/sign-off, I will have an oral presentation and then we close the case.

 

My thesis went to my committee and I got nasty feedback. The truth is I agree with the feedback. The best thing is I can see the flaws. Also - My advisor is advising three other students as well and one other student also received major revisions.

 

I'm basically mad at him: for not helping me enough with the review process. I say this after having a great relationship with him (even now). He would call us for a meeting and skim through the pages over a cup of coffee and say " Good, I like it. That's all for today. I need coffee now. Let;s continue next week". Then next week, he will read from where we left off. Basically, he has been reading in bits and parts and thus he may have not been able to keep checks on the flow. That is the major feedback I had -- flow is not uniform.I'm feeling like he did a half-baked job; ofcourse the thesis is primarily my responsibility and I am the one doing the revisions now. I'm just left with a feeling of bitterness because of no "real advise".

 

Also, I worked on the revisions for about 7-8 days now and I'm ready for re-submitting; however, this experience has made me lose my trust in my advisor. So, I wonder how to feel "good" about my thesis revisions now? He does such a sloppy job, I don't trust him. I don't want it to come back for major issues as this will prolong the process and possibly annoy everyone involved and needless to say cost me another semester!

 

How should I handle this situation? I'm left feeling worried about my graduation (hoping all goes well eventually) and bitter (I have ruin a wonderful relationship that we both had throughout the year).

 

 

[Eigen]

I know our advisors barely read the dissertations in our department before they get forwarded on- they read them, but not the intensive editing you're looking for.

That's something that's up to the student to do, or find other help with.

I think it's key that you didn't think the work was your best.

It's impossible to comment on the relationship as a whole, because we weren't there. Did you ask for more detailed feedback and not get it? Or did you just assume that even though you didn't think it was great work, that he thought it was fine?

Advisors aren't generally (not sure what discipline you're in) supposed to help you with the writing. They're supposed to help you with the research. You may get lucky and find an advisor who'll work with you on your writing, but that's not usually consistently part of the job, from my view.

As to how to deal with the situation: How do you feel about the revisions? Do you feel the work is your best now? That it flows well and coherently?

If you aren't sure, you could try taking it to your campus writing center, or ask a friend to read it for you.

I've done several reads on dissertations for friends.

[nehs]

Eigen -- true, I'm not saying he didn't read my paper page-by-page. My main frustration is I thought this is not enough but he said " that's fine". I understand that no thesis/dissertation is perfect but it needs to stand to certain standards which mine did not. I was basically expecting help over research.

 

I feel I have now addressed most concerns and I'm ready . I don't trust my advisor anymore and so, I'm scared as I don't want major feedback on this. This back and forth process will cost me one semester tuition.

[danieleWrites]

When I was having similar problems, I made an appointment with everyone on my committee, not just the adviser. I told them that I wanted to make sure that I understood and had adequately addressed their concerns before submitting. They didn't read the whole revision, but they were able to tell me what they were looking for, which I was then able to deal with. It saved me a lot of time because I didn't have to wait for them to read, discuss, and give feedback. I got immediate feedback at their convenience (hence appointment). Of course, mine was a book of poetry so the revision process meant that I had to argue over piece of punctuation and every word choice because changes didn't just alter the clarity and quality of the writing, it also altered my work. The biggest hold up on my thesis was my use of em dashes. However, individual meetings with the committee helped me get the thing one without adding a semester. Of course, your school might be different and your adviser might not take so kindly to you doing an end run around him.

[fuzzylogician]

Did you communicate to your advisor that you didn't think it was your best work? Sounds like you didn't. But you know your work better than your advisor does and you have more riding on it than he does. The responsibility is not only his, especially if you were feeling that not all is right. In addition, I think that back-and-forth and less than perfect first attempts are quite common, as this is a learning experience and probably unlike anything most students have done in the past. I second Eigen's advice to take the paper to your writing center so you can get advice on style and structure. The advisor's job is mostly to help with content, and some will also edit your drafts -- but not all do and the extent (and competence) to which they go can vary greatly. As I've already said before, I think should also meet with the people who made the comments and get their feedback on how well you've responded to their comments. That can help avoid another unpleasant back and forth.

[nehs]

danielewrites -- I'm thinking if I can make an appointment with my committee members,I'm working on the revisions now anyway. My advisor is basically clueless himself. I hope revisions and re-submissions are not a "bad" thing.

 

fuzzylogician -- No, I didn't communicate with him. May be that's one issue here but the larger issue, I feel, is that he needs to involve himself more with the research as opposed to what he involves himself with now (he just skims through and points out some grammar, is he kidding us?, in my field no one cares about the language to a great extent). I understand that the first draft cannot be expected as-is. However, I am so demotivated now that I'm scared the second submission will come back with major revisions too and then I will be mentally drained. Also, I'm wondering if typically there are any "number of attempts" for this back-and-forth process. In my department, we do not have oral defenses for master's students UNLESS the committee wants it AND the thesis has been accepted. This means out of 10 students submitting master's theses every semester only 2-3 do a defense.

[Guest |||]

It might be useful to direct your professors attention with something like "Hey I think I'm struggling a bit more with my writing, particularly my content/flow/methodology/whatever it is you think you are weak at".  This might help direct him/her away from grammar, or other aspects you think might are being over-emphasized.

 

I understand your frustrations and expectations, however I think it is important to consider other views.

 

 

There have been posts on these forums criticizing advisers who would request significant manuscript changes with every submission. 

 

How are these professors to know the student is getting tired of revising?  The professor likely thinks they are simply doing their best to help the student write the best piece they can, and, showing them what it means to fully polish a product.

 

On the other hand, a professor could easily say "It is important for you to realize, you are not just to meet my expectations, but also, peers and colleagues of the field" and hence with this, will show your work to others.

 

A professor can easily require you redo your manuscript over and over, but at what point is it unreasonable and just the professors personal writing quirks?

 

A good way to get around this, and to show the student that his work must not just meet personal expectations, is to give the work to others to read.

 

 

It sounds to me, that is what your professors perhaps did.

 

 

I think to some extent it is also a bit unfair of you to say the professor did a sloppy job on your manuscript, when you admit beforehand you submitted a sloppy manuscript.

 

You might be disappointed in the effort of your professor, but perhaps he is disappointed in the effort given by you and thought you needed a good reminder of why quality revising is so important. 

 

 

 

Lastly, for most fields, revising is a significant aspect of their career.  You revise for yourself, for your university, for the specific journal you are applying to (and starting potentially from scratch if rejected by that journal), for the specific reviewers you get, and so forth.  I think it is important for you to know, this is likely something you will be doing more of, not less, and mediocre efforts in the future will likely hurt a lot more than they do now.

Edited May 11, 2013 by |||

[nehs]

NicholasCage(nice name ) -- makes sense, when I now thing of it , I do agree with you, possibly he wanted to submit it to my committee members to get their opinion. However, when we students received feedback, he took it personally (saying things like they want to feel important, they are asking silly changes etc). That I felt was immature.

I imagine revising is pretty common - I revised an article almost 7 times for a journal. But, I'm feeling overwhemed when it comes to my thesis(too big a paper perhaps?).

 

Also, I wonder -- if I have shot myself in the foot by giving this mediocre paper. So does this mean that almost all students, master's specifically, receive major revisions and this cycle goes on for a long time?  I'm not sure how it has been for previous students in my program but the current students have all received major revisions.

[Guest |||]

Its pretty common to require major revisions.  I think the best thing to do is first talk to your supervisor, and two, don't be too hard on yourself.  You are learning, getting better, and getting to grips with things.  Be open on what you need and want, and I think you will do fine.

[nehs]

Its pretty common to require major revisions.  I think the best thing to do is first talk to your supervisor, and two, don't be too hard on yourself.  You are learning, getting better, and getting to grips with things.  Be open on what you need and want, and I think you will do fine.

I'm going to take this piece of advice, thank you!

 

I just panicked a little worrying that this major revision may cost me my degree. I thought my committee and my professors will thinking " she does not deserve the degree itself" while I have been a pretty good student throughout the program except for my thesis, ofcourse.

[artimacia]

I'm in the opposite situation. My adviser always rips apart everything that I do, that it's never up to her specifications. She'll give me revisions, I'll do them, and the next time she looks over it, there's a whole new list of problems of how I'm "just not getting it". I worry that as I start sending her bits of my thesis to review (I aim to defend in late October, so I'm starting to put everything together now so she can review it before), it'll never be good enough to her to ever send to my committee. I would just take what your committee has said and fix the issues. Like they said above me, don't be hard on yourself over it. We all go through it, every one of us. The fact that you're even at this stage of your thesis is a major accomplishment that many haven't be able to get to. 

[nehs]

artimacia -- your post was a major morale booster for me, thanks. I guess the positive side is my advisor is mostly willing to send to my committee (ofcourse the product is half-baked sometimes!!!). I'm working on the revisions now, they are really major and I had to add one whole chapter of 10 pages.

[wildviolet]

Hi nehs,

 

Just wanted to let you know that I had a similar experience with my MS thesis advisor (although it was not as extreme as yours). Sometimes I felt like she forgot what she had read or was perhaps thinking about another thesis she was advising. During my thesis "defense," the other two readers questioned some parts of the thesis, at which point my advisor jumped in to defend/clarify that section. I made some minor revisions based on their comments, but it was not a big deal.

 

The lesson I learned was that ultimately I am responsible for my thesis/dissertation. After completing my first year in a doctoral program, I can say that the role of the advisor/committee is to help you produce the best work that you can. My advisor has chaired many dissertations over the years, and some are better than others (the most recent one won a very prestigious award in my field). My conclusion, then, is that the quality of the dissertation is greatly influenced by the dissertation writer and, to a lesser extent, the chair and committee. Also, at least in my field, very few papers get by peer review without at least minor revision.