Is doing poorly in grad school the end of the world?

[misshavisham]

I'm in an incredibly embarrassing situation. I just finished my third semester of grad school (in a Masters program) and I have two C's in graduate courses on my record. My GPA is still above 3.0, so at my university, I'm not in danger of academic probation or anything, but of the five classes we're required to take (actual classes, not just research hours), I'll have 2 A's, a B, and two C's. I don't have an excuse, the classes were actually easy, but there was a death in my family that threw me into a very deep depression. I knew the entire time I was taking the classes I should have dropped and taken time off to improve my mental health, but I'm stubborn and pigheaded and I didn't. Now I'm stuck with these two rather unsightly blemishes on my record.

 

So the point of admitting all this is I want to know if my chances of getting into a PhD program are now blown completely, or even my chances of gaining a job with just a masters. I know there are very few jobs available to masters to begin with, so I feel like now I have NO chance of finding a job, or of getting into a PhD program. I'm worried I may just have to drop out completely and completely change my whole future. But the thing is of course I don't want to do that...I want to be a scientist.

 

I should also mention the school I'm getting my masters at is the same school I did my undergrad at and that is because my undergrad grades are not stellar either. I wanted to go straight to PhD, but couldn't get accepted to a PhD program, only masters, so I was using the masters as kind of a stepping stone to a PhD. But I do have pretty good research experience; I did two internships at a national lab and my current research advisor is pretty fond of me and said she supports me 100% and knows I'm capable or more (meaning I'll get a very good reference from her).

 

So give it to me straight. How completely screwed am I? In your experience, how much do companies rely on actual grades rather than experience when hiring? Or even schools for that matter if I decide I still want a PhD. If it matters, I want to end up in industry.

[misshavisham]

I also forgot to add, I was thinking about taking the GRE subject test in chemistry, just to kind of prove I'm not a complete idiot. But then I got the thought that if I didn't get pretty much a 100% on it, the schools I'd be applying to would look at me in a more negative light because it's a test generally taken by undergrads going into grad school, not someone that has finished a masters. And I think even if I'm confident in my knowledge and study, I could never get a 100%.

[GeoDUDE!]

Was this a thesis based masters ? 

[misshavisham]

yeah it is. we do plan on publishing it as well, and i'll be second author on a review paper we're going to publish, and second author on an internal report from one of my internships at the national lab.

[Quantum Buckyball]

I think at this point you should really re-evaluate yourself.

If you are having so much trouble in your Masters program right now, do you think you'll do well in a PhD program?

Even if you pass all the classes and other requirements to graduate, do you think you'll be competitive enough to compete with other people with the same degree?

Edited June 3, 2013 by Quantum Buckyball

[GeoDUDE!]

If the publications are good, I think it can make up for bad grades... I WOULD WAIT until you have all 3 of those publications.

[misshavisham]

I think at this point you should really re-evaluate yourself.

If you are having so much trouble in your Masters program right now, do you think you'll do well in a PhD program?

Even if you pass all the classes and other requirements to graduate, do you think you'll be competitive enough to compete with other people with the same degree?

 

Well in coming here, that is what I'm trying to do...determine my chances for continuing on in this career. I truly beileve I was having so much troubles because of psychological issues...the classes were really not hard at all so I KNOW I'm capable of straight As. The problem is getting recruiters to see this.

 

Your questions are my exact questions. How competitive am I and are my chances completely blown of getting into a PhD program.

[Quantum Buckyball]

There are some programs that will take you in as long as you meet the minimum criteria, however, most of them do not offer any financial support for students, you are most likely will have to pay everything out of your own pocket.

[nugget]

This is not my area of studies at all, but I was wondering if completing a second master's degree would be an option? If you do well with the second degree, as long as the area of studies is pertinent and complements your area of interest, you could make your application to the PhD program more competitive that way.

 

Otherwise you may need to work for a number of years and apply to a PhD program once you have acquired solid work experience and have an outstanding cv. If your cv can outshine the applicants with better grades and less work experience you may have a chance of getting into a PhD program later on down the road. 

Edited June 6, 2013 by jenste

[St Andrews Lynx]

If you're having psychological issues/depression in a Masters program then it is very likely they will reoccur during the PhD. I'd advise thinking seriously about how you will cope if the depression re-asserts itself during grad school - it doesn't sound like ploughing on worked as a strategy for you...

 

You can compensate for the low GPA and Masters grades by getting a high score on the GRE...but only to a certain degree. If you undergrad and Masters grades are poor then recruiters will have a hard time believing those marks were "just a one off" and that you're really capable of A grades at an even higher level of education.  Taking summer courses or classes as a non-matriculated student might compensate...but of course you would then need to get straight As.

 

I agree that finding a M.S-level research job is hard...but I'm not convinced it will be any easier to secure a PhD-level job. From my experience working in industry I know that M.S entry-level jobs do exist in places like pharma, and the career progression available is decent.  

[biochemistry professor]

I'm on the admissions committee at a state university. I personally don't care that much about grades. Some people aren't good with classes and taking tests but are good with research. If you have made good progress in your research, have the support of your advisor, explain your C's due to family situation, you should be competitive for PhD programs.

[Istoleart]

I am in a similar situation as you. My grades aren't stellar, and I have a masters already. I'm also an international applying to US graduate schools which makes it all the tougher. But I managed to back up my MSc with three manuscripts which shows that I have extensive research experience instead of potential. My research statement is close to a post-docs fellowship research statement because of those manuscripts. Therefore, you can have an advantage some applicants do not have since you'll be writing a thesis:

 

1. By the time your thesis is done you'd have read hundreds of papers. That means your research statement can look mightily professional as you can draw on those papers.

2. You'd have research "experience" which is infinitely better than the theoretical research potential

3. Hopefully, you'd have published by the time you graduate or they'd be in the "submitted to Journal of Awesome Chem" phase

4. Are you a domestic masters student? If so, you are competing with a lot of newly minted bachelors of science.

5. If you are truly worried about grades then re-do GRE (Especially subject ones). 

 

I hope you can get into a PhD program as I truly do feel the same anxiety from less than stellar grades.

[gellert]

I respectfully disagree with those positing that your depression is likely to reoccur during your Ph.D.   It sounds like, from what you wrote, that the depression was triggered by the family death and is not a recurring thing that frequently decimates your ability to do well in a classroom setting. 

 

Since your masters was thesis-based and you did well in that respect and your adviser will vouch for you, no, I don't think it's the end of the world. I think you should take the subject GRE and do as well as you can (a 100% is not necessary and you don't have to report it at all if you feel your score isn't good enough, as long as the school doesn't require it).  I also think if you can get your letter-writer to explain that your grades suffered due to a death in the family, that will help.

 

The question remaining for me is: how bad WAS your undergraduate record?  Research is more important than grades of course, but you need a minimum GPA to be considered usually.  Your grad GPA is over 3.0, but what about undergrad? 

 

I think you should acknowledge your strengths some as well, and work to build upon them.  You're weak in one area (grades), so improve an area in which you are strong (research).  If you can show that your depression did not negatively affect your work in research, then that helps.