PhD in Europe = Jeopardize future in the USA?

[jimmy_01]

So I'm an American that got my undergrad and masters degrees (in Engineering) in US State institutions. I now want to go for a PhD. I wanted to experience my PhD in Europe, as I heard that the style of research and learning there is different, and I think would benefit me in terms of expanding my intellectual horizon. The school in Europe that I got into is pretty well known in Engineering...

 

My question is, if I do my PhD in Europe, will this hurt my chances of getting a good position (either as a professor or research related job) back in the USA? I've done some research on this, and a lot of people say, if you want to work in Europe after your PhD, then do your PhD in Europe...if you want to work in the US, then do your PhD in the US. But why would that matter? A PhD is a PhD in my eyes....Any opinions/suggestions on this?

[Guest |||]

I can't speak for engineering but in the field I am in, not only is it often irrelevant, but the times it is not, its beneficial.  Having a broader horizon, having more connections, and having greater variety is a positive, again at least in the field im in.

[nc805397]

You may get a mix of opinions on this. I was told not go to Europe for a PhD if my goal is to ultimately work in the US. I am a Canadian citizen, going to grad school in the US this fall, and was discouraged by my profs and US grad students from studying in Europe since my goal is to work in the US (or Canada) as a prof one day.

[zapster]

Do not know enough to comment definitively, but one objective comparison would be the broader academic network you would develop in the geographic region where you do your phD. Yes global colaboration does exist, but someone in the US for example would definitely be able to develop a far more broadbased network, attend more US based conferences etc (and vice versa for Europe).

[TakeruK]

I was also surprised to learn about this when talking to profs in Canada during my PhD program search. But their explanations make sense and here's why I think not all PhDs are the same:

 

1. The length! A European PhD is often shorter than a US PhD and there is less emphasis on classes than in the US. This sounds great to me! But, my prof pointed out that less time in a PhD = less papers, less research results etc. This might depend on field though, but this would put you at a disadvantage when competing with North American PhDs for North American post-docs/faculty positions,.unless you are superstar! But it seems like if you do a PhD in Europe and also a first post-doc there, then you would have the same, or even more, research/papers than a North American PhD and you would be at the same level again. This might make you ineligible for some fellowships that are for your first post-doc only, though.

 

2. The distance! Again, this may depend on field, but often times, the European and North American networks are very separate. There are different set of annual conferences, and it's not likely that a PhD student or postdoc from Europe will be doing talk circuits in Canada/US and vice-versa. It's already pretty rare when profs from the other continents come to give a colloquia! Because of this, North American scholars will be likely to know much about European graduate students and vice-versa, unless you are a superstar in your field of course.

 

This effect might be less severe for jobs outside of the tenure-track though. Also, I don't think a European PhD instantly means you lose all chances of a US based job, but you definitely get a little bit disadvantaged because of the reasons above. So, if you have strong enough desires to go to Europe, it might still be worth it overall!

[DeleteMePlease]

A Ph.D in Europe is short? Here in Germany it takes an average of about 6 years, and you cannot enter directly with a Bachelors degree.

 

As far as I know a Ph.D. in the US has far more classes and there is more emphasis on methods and academic skills. However, a European Ph.D. might prepare you more for a life in industry than an American Ph.D.

 

Also, in Germany a Ph.D. programme is much more "liberal". For example, a lot of people do their Ph.D. while working in a company.

Edited July 6, 2013 by GermanStudent

[Nuya]

What German PhD Programs do you know that have a regular length of 6 years? If you study part time maybe, but generally they dont take that long, do they? One program I maybe consider at my current university takes 4 years when entering with a Bachelors degree and 3 year when entering with a masters degree.

Of course, depending on the field of study, if you dont get any money at all through the programm (not even 50% salary), then one might be working fulltime elsewhere and thus devoting a lot less time to their thesis.

I think a big difference between PhD in Germany and the US is that the structured PhD programs are a bit new in this country. The old principle "a student finds a mentor (professor) and writes a PhD thesis in their lab" is still very common. But since there are more and more people who get to go to university this principle is outdated and slowly replaced by structured PhD programs more similar to those common in the US.

But since I dont even know what European country the person who asked the question is interested in this might not even be relevant at all^^

[jimmy_01]

Any other opinions/remarks on this?

[LinguisticMystic]

I thought about it, too, but have already decided against applying to a school in the UK. For a lot of reasons that have pretty much been covered above. Too short (3 years), not enough (or any) classwork prior to dissertating (I'm interested in interdisciplinary work, so it doesn't make sense for me to stop taking classes right now...), not enough time to develop relationships with colleauges (looking for a close-knit department/lab), not enough teaching experience, a lot of the major conferences are in the U.S., etc. etc. etc. One other thing: I noticed that none of the professors I'm interested in potentially working with in the U.S. have degrees from Europe. So that stands out to me since that's where I'd like to end up.

Edited July 21, 2013 by LinguisticMystic

[MikKar]

I won't go as far as saying that you jeopardize your future in a given continent, but I would say that it depends on how well/strongly you build your network. If you have some really strong connections back in North America, then you could do your Ph.D in Europe, get a different experience and a different taste of working culture and come back from it a much better man than if you stayed in North America, where you only really saw one thing and one thing only.

 

It is dependent on the field, but it is even more dependent on the individual. Someone can have a certain degree from Europe, work in Europe for a few years and build a good strong network from his workplace, and then further his studies by going to a different continent and expanding his knowledge and network there. In this case : the work experience is the key thing because it shows you spent time there and you know people who would be glad to work with you again in the future if you decide to return.

 

Keep your options open, for me it really depends on how you keep your professional network active. This is the really helpful thing in my opinion.

[juilletmercredi]

In my field it really depends on where in Europe you go.  There are certain European institutions that are really good in my field and from where a PhD will be treated just like a PhD earned in the States; others not so much.  I think you should check with trusted advisers within your field and see if there are differences based upon that.

 

Less time in a PhD program doesn't always mean fewer papers.  In US PhD programs you spend the first 2-3 years in coursework and exams anyway, so it can be difficult to publish something then.  In European PhD programs you only have 3-4 years but you aren't taking coursework or exams - you're just doing research - so I'd wager you have the same amount of publishing time as an American student.

[jeffster]

Another problem you might run into is name recognition.  If you go to a fine European institution that isn't much known in the US (and there are a ton of them that fit that criteria) then you might be at a disadvantage against a pool of applicaints for some future position.  Obviously this isn't so much a problem if you go to a high-profile school, like Oxford or the Sorbonne.

 

At least in my field, my professors generally discouraged going to European institutions unless you wanted to work in Europe, or it was a high profile name and program.

Edited July 26, 2013 by jeffster

[GuitarSlayer]

It's all about who you're studying under, not necessarily the university.  I had a choice between a new guy at a higher ranked school or a man at the top of my field at a slightly lower ranked university in England.  I chose the second --  name recognition, reputation, and connections within the community, plus he was right on the mark as far as my topic goes.  When you do your resume, you can write PhD, Blah Blah University, under THIS HUGE NAME IN THE BIZ.  Institute rep is important, but even more so is your supervisor.