Subfield of Psychology vs. Research Interests/POI

[Guest joshw4288]

I will be applying to doctoral programs in Social Psychology this semester for Fall 2014 entry. To keep things short, my primary interest is intergroup violence and my M.A. thesis is within this interest (currently in progress). If there are POI's that conduct research primarily within intergroup violence but are faculty within a program that only offers a PhD program in an alternate subfield such as Developmental Psychology, would it be worth going to a program such as this? The research would be geared towards my interest and the POI is a social psychologist but ultimately the doctorate would be developmental, not social.

 

Any thoughts from people already in programs?

[lewin]

The actual label they slap on your degree isn't important but graduate school is also about developing connections and learning what it means to be a social psychologist by osmosis. They have no social psychology program whatsoever? I would not attend a program that didn't have a social psychology program even if the POI is awesome. Here's what you're missing:

 

1. Interactions with social psychology faculty and graduate students. This is where research ideas come from and how you learn implicit professional norms.

 

2. Attending the social psychology seminars and hearing notable guest speakers. You need to learn how social psychologists discuss ideas and critique research.

 

3. Taking social psychology courses. Self-explanatory; you want to learn social psychology not a bunch of developmental.

 

And possibly you'll miss....

 

4. Attending social psychology conferences.

 

5. Publishing in social psychology journals.

 

ETA: I would strongly, strongly advise against this.

Edited August 13, 2013 by lewin00

[PsychGirl1]

I don't see the harm in applying if you're a good research match- if you get an interview, you can always talk to the professor about this in person. Are you interested in social psychology for a specific ideological reason, or just because it tends to be the area where most intergroup violence is studied? I would guess that your PI would attend and submit presentations/publications to relevant conferences and articles. After all, I only have 1 professor at my program who studies my area of interest, and people in my lab do just fine networking with other people in our specific subfield across disciplines- from clinical, to health, to social, etc.

[lewin]

Just to discuss some of these issues further...

 

 

Are you interested in social psychology for a specific ideological reason, or just because it tends to be the area where most intergroup violence is studied?

 

Yes, my answer was based on the assumption that the OP wants to get a social psychology job afterwards. If so, it's not just about the conference networking or the relationship with your PI; it's about being surrounded by other current and future social psychologists so that you can absorb things from them and where it's a fertile ground for your development as one yourself. Partly this is the classes you take but it's more than that.

 

 I would guess that your PI would attend and submit presentations/publications to relevant conferences and articles. 

 

Maybe, maybe not. (Why is why the OP should ask.) I mean, if you want a job as a social psychologist you'll have to publish in JPSP, JESP, or PSPB. Maybe your advisor will want to publish in developmental journals because that's what his area peers value. Lots of research could go to many different journals.

 

I only have 1 professor at my program who studies my area of interest, and people in my lab do just fine networking with other people in our specific subfield across disciplines- from clinical, to health, to social, etc.

 

But you have other clinical students and you're in a clinical program, right? The OP is talking about becoming a social psychologist without receiving any social psychology training other than that which his PI provides. Despite what we often read here, grad school is about more than just research, it's about coursework and training too.

Edited August 13, 2013 by lewin00

[PsychGirl1]

^ All good points, which is what he can discuss with the POI and the lab members if he gets an interview :-D.

 

Just to play devil's advocate... I'd suspect that if the professor has a lab full of students with a social psych leaning, he attends social psych conferences, his PI is well-respected in the field, and that there are a handful social psych classes to take, that the student wouldn't be missing SO much that his career would be affected (and that it would be a big enough gap that having a well-respected PI and good research experience wouldn't eliminate it). And it may be interesting for him to combine social and developmental knowledge within his field of interest (I'm always surprised how narrow-focused research becomes within such small areas of research, but then again, this is probably my background speaking). Plus, I just glanced at the requirements for UCLA's social psych program, for example, and they only take 5-6 social psych specific courses throughout the entire program. As a clinical student, I'm required to take 1-2 social psych courses. Of course, classwork is only one piece of a program's requirements. But in summary, I just don't see how it would change a career path THAT drastically. But then again, I work in a very interdisciplinary area of Clinical Psych, and I applied to multiple types of programs myself (social, health, clinical, and health clinical). It could definitely be my biases talking.

 

Anyway, to the OP, I'd say you need to figure out your career goal and see if going dev psych instead of social psych would drastically change the outcome. Then, look at the program's reqiurements, coursework, the people in your POI's lab and what type of research they do, and the POI's research. If you could see yourself fitting in, then go ahead and apply. It's much easier to add on ONE application to the pile and see how things play out and what your general feeling is during the interview than to regret not applying. Especially because you're figuring out your list now and you won't have to decide until April- a LOT can change in your interests between now and then, especially once you start interviewing and talking to students and professors. Just my 2 cents!

[lewin]

I think you make great points too   and do think that applying and asking a LOT of questions is a viable option if the OP doesn't mind the work of applying. To me the drawbacks would make me not bother applying, but that's just a personal judgment. And actually, I originally phrased my first post as "questions to ask your POI..." but changed it to statements instead

 

Just like you're coloured by being in an interdisciplinary area, I'm biased--to the extent that I can actually introspect accurately--because I can't imagine having developed into the researcher I am today without a full breadth of social psychology professors who research in different areas and have broad perspectives. I've also gotten my best research ideas from talking to other social psych students, not just the ones in my lab. I wouldn't underestimate those 5-6 courses too--it's not just the content, but the discussion and exposure to people who teach you to think like a social psychologist.

 

Some of my research is intergroup. I'm tempted to ask the OP who his POI is to evaluate whether his/her reputation outweighs the program's disadvantages

[nugget]

Lots of great points given by lewin00 and PsychGirl1.

 

To add my 2 cents... My bf worked as a research assistant in abnormal aging for a few years before doing a masters and PhD in clinical psych. He intentionally joined a normal aging lab in grad school to learn about normal aging as he believed this knowledge and training would benefit him in the world of abnormal aging after graduation. During grad school, he published primarily in normal aging journals and never saw this as a problem. He was more concerned about the quality of the journal rather than the journal subtype.

 

I think your decision should be based on your career goals. If there is some kind of benefit to your training, research interests and future job prospects by being in a developmental program then apply. If you're not sure and you're still trying to figure it out, I'd apply as a backup plan if you have the time to do so just to keep one extra option open. But be prepared to discuss why pursing a developmental degree makes sense when you write your SOP as I'm sure the admissions committee will be wondering the same thing when trying to ascertain whether or not you are an ideal fit for this type of program.  

Edited August 14, 2013 by jenste

[PsychGirl1]

I think you make great points too   and do think that applying and asking a LOT of questions is a viable option if the OP doesn't mind the work of applying. To me the drawbacks would make me not bother applying, but that's just a personal judgment. And actually, I originally phrased my first post as "questions to ask your POI..." but changed it to statements instead

 

Just like you're coloured by being in an interdisciplinary area, I'm biased--to the extent that I can actually introspect accurately--because I can't imagine having developed into the researcher I am today without a full breadth of social psychology professors who research in different areas and have broad perspectives. I've also gotten my best research ideas from talking to other social psych students, not just the ones in my lab. I wouldn't underestimate those 5-6 courses too--it's not just the content, but the discussion and exposure to people who teach you to think like a social psychologist.

 

Some of my research is intergroup. I'm tempted to ask the OP who his POI is to evaluate whether his/her reputation outweighs the program's disadvantages

 

Lots of great points given by lewin00 and PsychGirl1.

 

To add my 2 cents... My bf worked as a research assistant in abnormal aging for a few years before doing a masters and PhD in clinical psych. He intentionally joined a normal aging lab in grad school to learn about normal aging as he believed this knowledge and training would benefit him in the world of abnormal aging after graduation. During grad school, he published primarily in normal aging journals and never saw this as a problem. He was more concerned about the quality of the journal rather than the journal subtype.

 

I think your decision should be based on your career goals. If there is some kind of benefit to your training, research interests and future job prospects by being in a developmental program then apply. If you're not sure and you're still trying to figure it out, I'd apply as a backup plan if you have the time to do so just to keep one extra option open. But be prepared to discuss why pursing a developmental degree makes sense when you write your SOP as I'm sure the admissions committee will be wondering the same thing when trying to ascertain whether or not you are an ideal fit for this type of program.  

 

Love the different viewpoints and experiences! I hope the OP comes back soon to read all our fascinating thoughts :-D

[Guest joshw4288]

Thank you everyone for your opinions. Quite informative. I wouldn't be concerned about publishing in social journals because the POI publishes primarily in major social journals and as I said before is a trained social psychologist despite being employed in a department that doesn't have a social program. There are also numerous other social psychologists in the department so working on social psychology research wouldn't be an issue.

 

As addressed above a drawback would be that there are a number of developmental courses within the curriculum and without a social program social seminars etc. would be either few or non-existent. I don't know that this is necessarily a deal breaker. People like to assume that different fields have clearly delineated lines between modes of thinking and the way research is done but I have never found this to be the case. A social psychologist wouldn't decide not to have a line of research in Identity Theory just because one of the preeminent theorists is a sociologist. Topics are hugely multidisciplinary and research methodology is research methodology and across fields remains pretty standard. I met a researcher from Carnegie Mellon recently who is now doing psychological research in drug addiction in returning veterans, despite being trained as a historian. If it was a psychologist we would call it psychological research so I wouldn't pretend that he's not engaged in psychological research just because he is a historian. Thats circular and silly. 

 

To elaborate, my interest is in intergroup relations and so is my current line of research. Applying to social psychology programs seems standard to me since a lot of the research I cite is done by social psychologists and I have always been in the field of psychology. I don't see any reason to change now.  But there is still plenty of research I cite by sociologists, developmental psychologists, philosophers etc. I don't think that there is any need to limit to one field. Based upon my citations, this guy would be perfect, until I looked up his employment and found out they don't have a social program. Generally, I just find things so interdisciplinary now that you are seeing various people with different degrees intermixing within departments anyway that I'm not sure that it's absolutely necessary that my degree say "Doctor of Philosophy in Social Psychology" so long as I am able to conduct the research that I want to conduct. 

 

In any case, I will be emailing him and my other POI's before applying so if he isn't taking students then it won't matter anyway. If he is then I guess I will have to decide from there. Again thanks for all the insight. Please feel free to add and we can keep this discussion going. Perhaps there are other people considering the same thing. 

[lewin]

Thanks for coming back with the extra information, sounds like whatever happens you've thought about everything a lot and I'm sure you'll be just fine.

 

I want to emphasize that the things I'm saying are not about research or the degree label but the environment. Grad school is more than just research.

 

Pragmatically, at the grad school stage of one's career, one needs a clear identity too. That is, jobs get posted in social or developmental, not generic research topics so it's important to fit a category. If you're a superstar who can graduate with two JPSP's, a psych science, and three JESP's then being in developmental won't matter. But for everybody else, social psychology has been described as a field that's ideologically liberal but professionally conservative. Leave the experimentation for the tenured.