Advisor Trash Talking Other Professor...

[Sarah1983]

I'm here for some at least sort of anonymous advice about a situation with my advisor. I'm a first year doctoral student and went to meet with my advisor for the first time last week. We chatted a bit about coursework, potential thesis topics, etc. Then she asked me what courses I was taking. One of those is with a professor that came highly recommended by professors at my previous institution, a fairly big name in my major field.

 

I told my advisor I was taking the course and she immediately burst into a tirade about how much she hates this professor, he's a terrible person, and he has terrible attitudes towards women. She even offered to get coffee with me so we could trash talk this professor if I realized how terrible he was. All the while her office door is wide open. I was...surprised and speechless. I just kind of mumbled something about how there didn't seem to be a book about gender on the reading list and booked it out of there.

 

Now I've heard the complaint that the professor I'm taking the course with is critical of feminist scholarship and my advisor has a heavy emphasis on gender in her work. So it seems there is an intellectual disagreement between the two which is fine and even healthy. My work tends more toward the style of the despised professor but I feel it could benefit from incorporating scholarship on gender. But her tirade struck me as incredibly unprofessional and put me in an awkward position particulary given the power arrangement. I am not my advisors equal in the department and sat through a week of orientations saying to not gossip and particularly not to gossip on the department floor where others could overhear. My concern is not so much her complaints about this particular professor...my bigger concern is that this will become a pattern. Or that she would run her mouth if not happy with me.

 

So should I swtich advisors? This advisor is the best match for my potential future work. I do have secondary research I could consider adopting as my main topic and that would necessitate an advisor switch. Or am I overreacting here

 

Edit: typos and and added that my work fits with both professors.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Sarah1983

[Revō]

This sounds like a classic example of one faculty member hating on another. Unfortunately, this happens quite often, and as a graduate student you will have to deal with it most of the time because you are seen as a confidant for all kinds of neurotic professors who are obsessed with trash talking and having somebody listen to their hate-speech. This is especially true of toxic departments where people have larger than life egos.

 

Just like in every walk of life though, there is a caveat to the above scenario. Example: My MA program was a pretty toxic place where faculty hated on each other quite openly. My advisor, being head and shoulders above the rest in every aspect imaginable, would often let me know about the tribalism going on in the department with his office door wide open. He'd never bag on anybody for their methodological orientation, but simply because they were, quite frankly, horrible mentors, advisors, and didn't really care about their students, teaching, or the department. I was fine with it most of the time because he saw me as a confidant and I really got the sense that his frustration emanated from caring deeply about his students and their future. So, what I'm trying to say here is that there will be times when a professor bags on someone for legitimate reasons. That's fine--you take it for what it is and let it go.

 

Unfortunately though, most of the time people talk smack about a faculty member who, for whatever reason, doesn't get off on the methodological fetishism of his/her peers. The debate goes from intellectual differences to personal attacks over who gets more funding, who has published more and all kinds of other crap. Once again, you as the graduate student will be the first person to hear about it because you typically spend a lot of time with you advisor. 

 

My advice to you is to generally stay away from department politics as much as you can. People won't judge you for being neutral but they will certainly judge and hate on you for taking sides. And since reputation is everything in grad school, once you get on somebody's bandwagon, it will be incredibly hard to reverse the damage. 

 

I don't think you're overreacting here. However, I would advise against changing advisors as this is something that is very common in academia--faculty have strong opinions and they're usually not afraid to express them. You can certainly change advisors later but for now, I would just keep my head down, do my work, and not buy into the politics and drama.

 

Grad school is all about improvising and learning on the go, and negotiating the advisor-advisee relationship is almost an art form.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Revō

[rising_star]

Chill out. You are definitely overreacting. This kind of thing happens a fair bit, including at conferences and in the hallways of departments. In truly toxic departments, it happens at various functions and faculty meetings as well. Welcome to academia (or any other workplace really)!

 

It is way, way, way too early to even think about switching advisors, especially over something like this. The battle is between the two of them and you should do your best not to get dragged into it. Part of that includes not having both of these people on your committee. Just put your head down and do your work. It's your first few weeks. No need to go make drastic changes because of one conversation.

 

(Also, in my experience, every single conversation I've ever had like that with a faculty member has been a prescient warning. I don't know about your gender but it's entirely possible your advisor was warning you because there are things she knows that she can't share about the other person's inappropriate behavior that go far beyond professional/intellectual disagreements. There are many a story of male faculty members acting inappropriately toward female graduate students, for example. Or of giving female students lower grades and harsher critiques on their work out of a desire to "make sure they earn their degrees". Only time will tell in your case.)

[fuzzylogician]

As others have said, it sounds like you're overreacting. Don't even consider changing advisors at this point, you've only known your advisor for a few weeks and this was just one conversation! Moreover, the way I read it, it sounded like more of a warning than just bitching about this professor. I hope it turns out not to be true, but it sounded like your advisor was telling you to be very careful with this professor and watch his behavior towards you (if you're female). I'd take rising_star's advice very seriously and avoid having them both on your committee--or even working with both of them on the same project without having them meet, you'll still get yourself into hot political waters. 

[danieleWrites]

Like everyone else has said, don't switch. At this point, it's reactionary and isn't going to save you from office politics because office politics are a way of life. The reason to switch is that the adviser won't be able to help you the way a different one will, and you would then discuss it with your adviser first, along with your reasoning. Sometimes, it's not that an adviser can't help, so much as there is miscommunication.

 

In addition, to what rising_star has said, I'd suggest coming up with a few handy lines to delicately shift the topic back into your comfort zone. If she starts moving down the gossip road, you could say something like: I noticed he doesn't have any gender material in the course and I feel that I could benefit from looking at gender; we discussed this text/event/person last Tuesday, and it seemed that a feminist perspective might include such-and-such thing. What do you think? Sincere questions are a great way to shift the conversation tactfully because they allow both of you to talk about what interests you, and you can leave their personal issues out of it. You can also shift from him to the material he's covering. He's not discussing feminist perspectives, then discuss feminist perspective of the material he's covering in class with her. As fuzzy suggests, she may be trying to protect you from him as much as she can, so you can tell her that you'll remember what she said and that you'll pay attention. If she persists in treating you as bitchy-buddy, you can take it up a notch. You can tell her that, as a grad student trying your best in the program, you don't feel comfortable discussing this professor in more than an academic way; that you value her take on him and his approach to the material so you'll pay attention and will come to her for broader input on the material. You know yourself, your situation, and your adviser, so you can pre-plan ways to shift conversation. If she rants, you might have to wait until she's done and then looks to you for a response. Definitely tell her that you know that your work will benefit from feminist scholarship, which is why she's important to you. Since nothing disseminates information better than a rumor mill, you might consider what you might say to him if you think he's putting you into a category with her as "the enemy" or if he outright asks you. It's one of those situations that must be managed so that you keep true to yourself, you negotiate a peace with your adviser that's true rather than ego-pandering, and in such a way that neither of these two have reason to think of you negatively.

 

Hopefully you can stay out of the office politics.

[lewin]

Everybody above gave great, serious advice so I'll be brief and a bit facetious. 

 

 

Chill out. Academics are the worst gossips and hearing your advisor dish about other professors or big names in the field is one of the best parts of being a grad student. Don't take it so seriously. And he might be a big sexist asshole, in which case she's doing you a favour.

 

Your orientation actually told everyone not to gossip? Ha. That's like telling professors not to drink coffee or complain about university administration. Just be discreet.

[St Andrews Lynx]

If there is a trustworthy older graduate student you might want to discreetly ask them for a second opinion. "I heard that Professor X and Professor Y don't get along well, do you know what's that about?" That might give you a better idea of what's going on - if Professor Y has a history of inappropriate behaviour towards female grad students, or if Professor X is just somebody that complains a lot. I think that the only people who bitch and gossip more than academics are their grad students - academia would be so much more boring without a bit of lively smack-talk over coffee.

 

Even completely neutral questions like "Do you enjoy working with Professor X?" to a grad student will get most of the details out pretty quickly if there is a problem or reputation.

[Sarah1983]

Thanks for the responses. I think I'm going to particularly use danieleWrites deflection suggestion. I'll hold off switching and I do see, as all the responders suggest, it might turn out to be a nonproblem. If it came down to it I would choose my advisor for a committee over the professor she hates just because her research interests would be better for taking my work to the next level. My style is closer to the other professor but I came to grad school to grow so I guess I should focus more on that and just keep out of the rest of it.

 

I think I feel much less secure in grad school so office politics that would never have bothered me before freak me out now. I worked so hard to get where I am that I don't want to end up mucking things up by getting stuck in the middle of some bs like this. I had a career before grad school. I've been around office politics and I'm weary of them. I've seen offices turn toxic and know well how stressful those situations can be to balance. I'm used to that sort of gossip amongst my equals, not between employees and management. So having someone I perceive to be above me in rank trying to gossip with me was surprising I think part of the issue, that I didn't mention in my original post, is that the professor she hates came highly vouched for by professors from my undergraduate institution. who had been doctoral students with this professor.

 

Anyways, thanks again everyone. I'm chilling out a bit!