Choosing a Lab...by Friday

[Arrowfletch]

So, I'm in an odd position right now.  The way my program works, we had a series of talks at the beginning of the semester followed by a couple weeks when we arranged one on one meetings with faculty we were interested in working with.  The deadline to submit our final ranked choice of lab is this coming Friday, and I really don't know what I'm doing.  Most of the labs that I came here interested in are not taking new students after all,even though they were recruiting at the visiting weekend last May.   I managed to find a couple labs I am interested in that would be willing to take me, even though they weren't actively looking for new students, but I've been so busy with classes the past few weeks that I haven't had much chance to interact with the professors or their groups.  This week won't be any better as far as that goes.

 

Anyway, I think I have it down to 2 groups now, but am very hesitant to try and choose one.  The first lab is very small, only 4 graduate students, 3 of which will be graduating within the next year.  The PI is much older, and not active in the lab anymore, though they seem very nice and I think I would get along with them well.  The work has an environmental focus, which is what I really wanted when I came here, but I have no background in the specific things they do and don't know if I would actually enjoy it or not.

 

The second group is much larger, with a younger PI who is willing to be very hands-on if the student wants it.  I haven't been able to meet most of the group yet, and don't know how much I would interact with them regularly.  The work is more biologically focused, which isn't as interesting to me personally as environmental, but the specific type of work I would be doing is mostly instrumental--designing, building, and optimizing a new system.  I know I like method development and optimization, but I don't know if I would enjoy the initial stages of trying to build from the ground up.

 

So, I know no one will be able to tell me what to do, but I thought I'd go ahead and post and see what comments arise.  Any general tips as I hit crunch time (other than reading and such, which there is honestly no time to do), or any insights based on how I write about my options?

[fuzzylogician]

I think there is no other choice except to meet with as many people as you can and talk to as many students as you can. The lab environment will be crucial for your happiness and therefore for your success. I understand that you've busy with classes but if there ever was a week to fall behind or miss an assignment deadline, this is it. Try and schedule meetings with both PIs and also talk to all the students you can find. You could also consult with older students in your program (in any lab) about how they made the choice and what they thought were the most important considerations. Spend your time this week doing this--it's far more important than classes. 

[St Andrews Lynx]

My experience of grad school to date is that it isn't about finding time to do something...it's about making time. Make the time to visit the labs and talk to the students there. Ask if you can join the group members for lunch. Request to sit in on their group meeting. Ask other older grad students in your program what the gossip is on those two groups - everybody will know if there is some.

 

Also take the time to sit down with a piece of paper and suss out what it is you want from your PhD. Are you an independent person who would get driven up the wall by a hands-on PI? Is it important for you to be in a group that publishes regularly, or do you not want that stress? Think about your past research experiences - what were the things that worked and what didn't (if say you worked in a small research group, did you enjoy it?). 

 

Also accept that you aren't going to make a perfect choice of PI & group. No one will. It's about deciding what you value most: the relevance of the research to your previous experience, the personality of the PI, the group dynamics, etc.

[Arrowfletch]

Thanks for the responses.  I have at least met with both professors once, and got to go to a group meeting for one (the other doesn't have one until later this week, which I do plan to attend, it's just so late in the allowed time).  I wish it were as simple as spending time on this instead of classes, but the time taken is from actually being in class, not working outside it: between just attending class, teaching every day, office hours, grading, and weekly 3-4 hour evening exams for my lab course, I only have a few spare hours a day, usually after 5.  I know I need to talk to other students, but I have no normal interaction with them and am very uncomfortable emailing complete strangers out of the blue without specific questions.  Any tips on how to go about contacting someone like that, how to start the conversation, what to ask?  Is it acceptable to just drop by the lab (when I haven't met the students working) to talk to them?  I know I seem kind of helpless, but I feel like I've been thrown into this with a lot less guidance than I expected from the setup of the program (also doesn't help that mental issues are acting up--stupid dreary weather).

 

Also, I'll add that I do have the official option of changing labs after my first year--so there's some chance that I could switch into the other lab if things don't work out, but no guarantee that they would still be open.

[fuzzylogician]

If you need to miss a class, do it. Deciding on a lab for the next 4-5 years is more important than one lecture, and even one whole week of lectures. 

 

You're not going to be email people out of the blue, but instead as part of the process of choosing a lab. It's not crazy at all, even if they don't know you. If they don't know you at all, just introduce yourself, explain that you need to choose a lab soon, and ask if you could meet in person for a chat about the lab. It doesn't have to be long. Offer to buy them coffee if it makes you feel better. It's generally much better to talk to people in person than ask questions in an email because people may not want to put down in writing any problems or misgivings, especially if they are writing to someone who they don't know (well). Most people should respond kindly to such a request, I'm sure they remember the pressure to make that choice not all that long ago when they needed to make it. No one benefits from having lab members who are unhappy or don't fit, so it's in everybody's best interest that you make a good choice for yourself. 

 

When you talk to people, just tell them that you need to choose a lab by Friday and that you're currently considering their lab and also lab X. Ask how it has been working in the lab for them - are they happy with their interactions with the PI and other students? Are they publishing enough? Are they working on projects that they like? Did they get freedom in choosing their topic? Do they feel that the PI provides the necessary support (maybe more guidance early on and more independence later in the process)? Have there been students in recent years who have transferred out of the lab without graduating (or taking the MS option if it's a PhD program)? Do they know how many and why? Also - on the personal side: what other labs were they choosing between when they needed to choose, and how did they decide? Do they have advice for you on what to look for or how to choose? What are important criteria for them? Hopefully you'll get some helpful replies and you'll also get a sense of whether or not these are people you enjoy being around. You can ask a lot of these things in an email too, if you don't get a chance to talk in person. 

[St Andrews Lynx]

Skip class. Ask the person you usually sit beside for a copy of their notes or to grab an extra handout for you. Classes only happen for a couple of semesters and are a minor component of grad school: choosing a PI/group is something you have to live with for 5-6 years.  

 

I'd also go ahead and drop by the lab. All you need to say is "Hi, I'm interested in joining your group and have a couple of questions about working for Professor X. Are you free just now?" Most grad students like the distraction of talking to someone. It's even easier if you were in one of their group meetings ("Hi, you met me on _day..."). Tell them that you're still undecided and confused about which group to join, then ask for their advice. 

[Arrowfletch]

I just thought I'd leave an update in thanks for the advice: after finally making it to group meetings for both groups and interacting with the professors a bit more, I've decided on the first one.  I came here wanting to do something with environmental applications, so I'm sticking to that.  The main downside is that the group is so small, but I feel like the PI is very approachable and will be hands on outside the lab if I need them to (they're very much a teacher) so I should be alright without older grad students sticking around.  And there are a lot of undergrads in the lab, so it's not like it will be empty and lonely.  The benefits of the second group would have been size, interaction, and the PI, but I got the idea that the group is actually so large everyone doesn't interact with each other, and I've decided that the two PIs are actually similarly approachable and easy to get along with--it was just faster to relate to the younger one, and that skewed my initial image of them both.  Anyway, I think I've made a good decision for myself and will be making it official tomorrow!