School Psychology programs (EdS/PhD)

[iphi]

I was invited to interview at the school that misplaced part of my application. In the original email I received after I inquired about my application status, the professor said there was a question if I was "the right fit" for the program. My SO said at the time that maybe they were just trying to cover for their mistake in overlooking me by pretending I was also a bad fit. But they sent me an invitation today anyway! Now that I have the invitation I am wondering if there's even a point? Do I even stand a chance if they really think I'm a bad fit? The interview is also in one week's time, so that's very little time to prepare!! Is this futile?

[iPsych]

I was invited to interview at the school that misplaced part of my application. In the original email I received after I inquired about my application status, the professor said there was a question if I was "the right fit" for the program. My SO said at the time that maybe they were just trying to cover for their mistake in overlooking me by pretending I was also a bad fit. But they sent me an invitation today anyway! Now that I have the invitation I am wondering if there's even a point? Do I even stand a chance if they really think I'm a bad fit? The interview is also in one week's time, so that's very little time to prepare!! Is this futile?

 

I think that they would not have sent you an interview if they thought you were not a good fit! So I think it's up to you: do you want to rush to prepare for an interview at this school knowing that they tried to cover for their mistake? How badly did you want to go to this school before all of this happened?

 

Best of luck with the choice!!

[iphi]

I think that they would not have sent you an interview if they thought you were not a good fit! So I think it's up to you: do you want to rush to prepare for an interview at this school knowing that they tried to cover for their mistake? How badly did you want to go to this school before all of this happened?

 

Best of luck with the choice!!

 

They are actually super close to another school that I'm going to. It fits in my schedule really well. It'll take me about 90 minutes out of my way, and won't cost me anything in airfare, so I've decided I'll go. I was actually extremely interested in them at first. Less so now, given the interactions I've had with them, but I'm kind of interested to see how things are there and if they act the same way in-person.

 

As for fit they must have been bluffing! I was reading their handbook last night and their mission statement and it fits my research interests exactly. That or the professor got me mixed up with someone else - she wrote to me over the weekend, so probably didn't have my file on-hand.

[baunlee]

Does anyone have info on EDs programs? specifically I am looking at enrolling in this track to foster the potential of being a Phd applicant when I finish my masters

 

A few questions:

 

• How can I tell if a program with both masters and phd would allow me to transfer MA credits to my phd?
• Do schools typically enroll MA students into their Phd program or is this looked at as a lack of diversity (such as same UG and MA)
•  
• Can I transfer my credits from MA to another school if my graduate program does not offer phd?
• Should I infer that schools that offer both MA and Phd are better programs?
• Should I infer that schools that post student research which are typically poster presentations to not be research based enough to bolster my credentials for phd
• Are MA students supposed to have a research idea in mind for interviews?
• Are Eds/MA programs without a thesis to be regarded as less apt to make me phd ready?
• What are some ways (during my masters) that I can work to have publications

One of my interview invites mentioned that they do not anticipate the same level of funding to Eds students as the past due to not receiving a federal grant that they have in the past.  Furthermore, that graduate assistantships tend to be reserved for students seeking a doctoral degree but that assistantships occasionally open for students at the Ed.S level.

- Given my desire to some day pursue a phd, would you think this program is not ideal for my pursuits?

 

There seems to be less info online about eds MA and mostly people talking about phd (which makes sense) but some insight would be helpful.

Some of the programs I'm looking at are UAlbany, SUNY Plattsburg, SUNY Oswego, Michigan State, RIT, and Columbia TC.  If anyone has information on these schools please message me or offer your advice.  Any and all feedback is appreciated 

[iPsych]

They are actually super close to another school that I'm going to. It fits in my schedule really well. It'll take me about 90 minutes out of my way, and won't cost me anything in airfare, so I've decided I'll go. I was actually extremely interested in them at first. Less so now, given the interactions I've had with them, but I'm kind of interested to see how things are there and if they act the same way in-person.

 

As for fit they must have been bluffing! I was reading their handbook last night and their mission statement and it fits my research interests exactly. That or the professor got me mixed up with someone else - she wrote to me over the weekend, so probably didn't have my file on-hand.

 

If it fits your schedule and your interests you should definitely go for it! Good luck

[schpsy92]

Does anyone have info on EDs programs? specifically I am looking at enrolling in this track to foster the potential of being a Phd applicant when I finish my masters

 

A few questions:

 

• How can I tell if a program with both masters and phd would allow me to transfer MA credits to my phd?
• Do schools typically enroll MA students into their Phd program or is this looked at as a lack of diversity (such as same UG and MA)
•  
• Can I transfer my credits from MA to another school if my graduate program does not offer phd?
• Should I infer that schools that offer both MA and Phd are better programs?
• Should I infer that schools that post student research which are typically poster presentations to not be research based enough to bolster my credentials for phd
• Are MA students supposed to have a research idea in mind for interviews?
• Are Eds/MA programs without a thesis to be regarded as less apt to make me phd ready?
• What are some ways (during my masters) that I can work to have publications

One of my interview invites mentioned that they do not anticipate the same level of funding to Eds students as the past due to not receiving a federal grant that they have in the past.  Furthermore, that graduate assistantships tend to be reserved for students seeking a doctoral degree but that assistantships occasionally open for students at the Ed.S level.

- Given my desire to some day pursue a phd, would you think this program is not ideal for my pursuits?

 

There seems to be less info online about eds MA and mostly people talking about phd (which makes sense) but some insight would be helpful.

Some of the programs I'm looking at are UAlbany, SUNY Plattsburg, SUNY Oswego, Michigan State, RIT, and Columbia TC.  If anyone has information on these schools please message me or offer your advice.  Any and all feedback is appreciated 

 

What I've heard from school psychology practitioners (both specialist and doctoral) is that if you want a doctorate, it is best to get it before you start working -- so get it the first time around. Many doctoral programs do not transfer the majority of your specialist credits, so it's like your starting as a first-year/second-year student again. I've also heard that Columbia TC notoriously takes 1/2 of its school psychology Ph.D program from its specialist cohort.

[schoolpsycher]

Does anyone have info on EDs programs? specifically I am looking at enrolling in this track to foster the potential of being a Phd applicant when I finish my masters

 

A few questions:

 

• How can I tell if a program with both masters and phd would allow me to transfer MA credits to my phd?
• Do schools typically enroll MA students into their Phd program or is this looked at as a lack of diversity (such as same UG and MA)
•  
• Can I transfer my credits from MA to another school if my graduate program does not offer phd?
• Should I infer that schools that offer both MA and Phd are better programs?
• Should I infer that schools that post student research which are typically poster presentations to not be research based enough to bolster my credentials for phd
• Are MA students supposed to have a research idea in mind for interviews?
• Are Eds/MA programs without a thesis to be regarded as less apt to make me phd ready?
• What are some ways (during my masters) that I can work to have publications

One of my interview invites mentioned that they do not anticipate the same level of funding to Eds students as the past due to not receiving a federal grant that they have in the past.  Furthermore, that graduate assistantships tend to be reserved for students seeking a doctoral degree but that assistantships occasionally open for students at the Ed.S level.

- Given my desire to some day pursue a phd, would you think this program is not ideal for my pursuits?

 

There seems to be less info online about eds MA and mostly people talking about phd (which makes sense) but some insight would be helpful.

Some of the programs I'm looking at are UAlbany, SUNY Plattsburg, SUNY Oswego, Michigan State, RIT, and Columbia TC.  If anyone has information on these schools please message me or offer your advice.  Any and all feedback is appreciated 

 

I only applied to EdS programs this year, so I can try to answer this a bit. The EdS degree is in between a masters and PhD. From what I've heard about school psych programs, if you want to go the PhD route, it's better to apply directly to PhD programs because it's very difficult to transfer credits from MA/EdS programs. However, I did find a school (University of Florida) that has both a EdS and PhD program, and they said every year 1-3 students switch from their EdS program into the PhD one, and since it's within the same school the credits easily transfer. So maybe in cases where a school has both programs, it's easier to continue on. I would just email schools that have both to ask.

 

You're right about funding. PhD's are almost always funded, but EdS programs are rarely. I've found 2 EdS programs that have been fully funded in the past, but I think they might be the only couple that are. There does seem to be the opportunity for assistantships for EdS students everywhere I applied though! And I had actually inquired about Columbia, and they said they hardly ever offer funding to EdS students, but their PhD's are generally 50% funded. Let me know if you have more questions!

[iphi]

Does anyone have info on EDs programs? specifically I am looking at enrolling in this track to foster the potential of being a Phd applicant when I finish my masters

 

1. How can I tell if a program with both masters and phd would allow me to transfer MA credits to my phd?

You can't. Not even the department makes that decision, it is usually left to the graduate school.

 

2. Do schools typically enroll MA students into their Phd program or is this looked at as a lack of diversity (such as same UG and MA)?

This varies by school, but I would not suggest that you get an MA and then return for a PhD (at least not in the same suject) you will have to repeat courses.

 

3. Can I transfer my credits from MA to another school if my graduate program does not offer phd?

Potentially, but you can never count on it.

 

4. Should I infer that schools that offer both MA and Phd are better programs?

No.

 

5. Should I infer that schools that post student research which are typically poster presentations to not be research based enough to bolster my credentials for phd?

What is this question trying to ask? For MA programs? You would need to design and conduct a research study culminating in a thesis.

 

6. Are MA students supposed to have a research idea in mind for interviews?

It can't hurt. I did when I applied.

 

7. Are Eds/MA programs without a thesis to be regarded as less apt to make me phd ready?

Yes. The way my Master's program put it: "if there's even a chance you'll get your PhD in the future... you need to complete a thesis."

You don't want to be in the position of having to explain why you have no research experience when you should (and you should if you are applying to a PhD) it looks lazy.

 

8. What are some ways (during my masters) that I can work to have publications

Complete a thesis, for one! But honestly this is not at all realistic. Even if you start your research in your first year of your MA, you won't wrap up until your second year, and it takes at least a year to publish, let alone write and edit a manuscript. I don't think any School Psychology program, even PhDs expect students to have published, especially since many students only enter PhD and EdS programs with only a BA.

A much more realistic goal: a poster presentation/other conference presentation.

 

9. One of my interview invites mentioned that they do not anticipate the same level of funding to Eds students as the past due to not receiving a federal grant that they have in the past.  Furthermore, that graduate assistantships tend to be reserved for students seeking a doctoral degree but that assistantships occasionally open for students at the Ed.S level.

That's right. Not only no guarantee of funding, but almost never any to be found for MA/EdS

 

Bottom line: Go straight for the PhD if that's your end goal. EdS is considered a terminal degree, and you would be repeating courses with no guarantee of transferred credits. To be competitive for a PhD you need research experience. You may want to volunteer in a university psychology lab or something similar. Also, SP programs like experience working with youth populations, children with special needs, etc.

[HicklePickle]

I have a phone interview for the University of Montana!!!! Wooohooo!

Does anyone have *non PhD* practice questions? I see a lot about research, etc, but I don't think I'll be asked that for the specialist program. Unless you think I will be?

[iphi]

I have a phone interview for the University of Montana!!!! Wooohooo!

Does anyone have *non PhD* practice questions? I see a lot about research, etc, but I don't think I'll be asked that for the specialist program. Unless you think I will be?

 

Congrats, that's exciting!

 

Maybe for EdS you'll be asked more about experience. Previous practical experience, maybe what you know about relevant topics in SP, and if there is something you want to focus on/are interested in. Just a guess!

[schoolpsycher]

I have a phone interview for the University of Montana!!!! Wooohooo!

Does anyone have *non PhD* practice questions? I see a lot about research, etc, but I don't think I'll be asked that for the specialist program. Unless you think I will be?

 

Congrats!! I just had my first EdS interview today (eeeek), and they asked why you want to be a school psychologist, what you would bring to the field, your strengths, weaknesses, why you like their specific program, etc. I had also prepared for more specific questions about the field and current issues in school psych, but they really only wanted to know that you had a solid general understanding of a school psychologist's role, what you are like, and whether you are a fit for the program. There were no questions about research at all. Hope this helps!

[iphi]

Congrats!! I just had my first EdS interview today (eeeek), and they asked why you want to be a school psychologist, what you would bring to the field, your strengths, weaknesses, why you like their specific program, etc. I had also prepared for more specific questions about the field and current issues in school psych, but they really only wanted to know that you had a solid general understanding of a school psychologist's role, what you are like, and whether you are a fit for the program. There were no questions about research at all. Hope this helps!

 

Thanks for the info! Curious as to what you said about weaknesses. That's always a tough question.

[iPsych]

I had my first interview yesterday (3 30minute individual interviews with professors in the school psych program)!  Some questions that they asked were:

 

-Why school psychology? How did you come to choose this field? (asked by two of the three interviewers)

-Why this university's program? (also asked by two of the three interviewers)

-Do I have experience as a TA or mentor?

-How comfortable am I with statistical analysis?

-What do you think will be hardest part about transitioning from life as an undergraduate to life as a graduate student?

-Tell me more about your specific research interests (asked by two of the three interviewers, neither were my POI but one probably could have been. She seemed very interested in the topic since it intersects with her area of research interest)

-Do you have any questions for me? (all 3 interviewers asked this.  It is definitely something you want to have an answer to! I found it hard because prior to the interviews we got a detailed overview of the program details and grad student life)

 

Overall it was a great experience and I wish I had more time to talk with each professor! Each conversation ran a few minutes over the 30 minute timeframe and we were still in the middle of a conversation!

[schoolpsycher]

What are your thoughts on sending thank you emails after an interview? My interview was on Friday, so I'm not sure if it's too late now either :/

[iphi]

What are your thoughts on sending thank you emails after an interview? My interview was on Friday, so I'm not sure if it's too late now either :/

 

Send one! And it's not too late, do it now!

[Blue4]

Hi everyone,

 

I found this forum as I was browsing the internet. I applied to Ed.S schools and heard back from 3 of them. I applied to Ball State University, University of Montana, University of Kansas, Northern Arizona University, and Eastern Illinois University. I applied to programs that offered students assistantships or some type of financial aid.

I was discouraged to learn that I got rejected from Kansas and Ball State University. I thought I had a pretty good chance of getting into those schools. I got invited to an open house at Eastern Illinois, and I had a phone interview for Montana today. I think the interview went well except I found myself very nervous during the first two questions, and found myself rambling. I hope that doesn't get me rejected. My top choice is Northern Arizona University, but with the recent rejections, I'm not too sure what response I will get back. I'm not sure what went wrong. I've had a lot of practical experience, some research experience working in a professor's lab (though I didn't think it was too important for the Ed.S program), I struggled with my GPA because I was a nursing major my freshman year so it is a 3.34, and my GRE scores are Q-143, V-145, W-4.0. 

Has anyone else been struggling too?

[HicklePickle]

Hi everyone,

 

I found this forum as I was browsing the internet. I applied to Ed.S schools and heard back from 3 of them. I applied to Ball State University, University of Montana, University of Kansas, Northern Arizona University, and Eastern Illinois University. I applied to programs that offered students assistantships or some type of financial aid.

I was discouraged to learn that I got rejected from Kansas and Ball State University. I thought I had a pretty good chance of getting into those schools. I got invited to an open house at Eastern Illinois, and I had a phone interview for Montana today. I think the interview went well except I found myself very nervous during the first two questions, and found myself rambling. I hope that doesn't get me rejected. My top choice is Northern Arizona University, but with the recent rejections, I'm not too sure what response I will get back. I'm not sure what went wrong. I've had a lot of practical experience, some research experience working in a professor's lab (though I didn't think it was too important for the Ed.S program), I struggled with my GPA because I was a nursing major my freshman year so it is a 3.34, and my GRE scores are Q-143, V-145, W-4.0. 

Has anyone else been struggling too?

 

Hi Blue4,

 

I also interviewed for Montana today and my interviewer said that in-person interviews would be March 7 and invites will go out this week!

 

I haven't heard back from anywhere else

[HicklePickle]

Congrats!! I just had my first EdS interview today (eeeek), and they asked why you want to be a school psychologist, what you would bring to the field, your strengths, weaknesses, why you like their specific program, etc. I had also prepared for more specific questions about the field and current issues in school psych, but they really only wanted to know that you had a solid general understanding of a school psychologist's role, what you are like, and whether you are a fit for the program. There were no questions about research at all. Hope this helps!

 

My interview was very similar. They asked what brought me to school psych, academic strengths/weaknesses, why I applied to the school, what kind of school psych I wanted to be. They also asked what my preferred learning environment was and whether I was settled on one type of interest (like, special ed only, or only wanting to do assessments. "No" seemed to be the correct answer, here.) And then she asked what my hobbies were. Hahaha. She was very nice!

 

Ahh I'm so relieved to have one interview down!

[Blue4]

Hi Blue4,

 

I also interviewed for Montana today and my interviewer said that in-person interviews would be March 7 and invites will go out this week!

 

I haven't heard back from anywhere else

The first two questions my interviewer asked, I thought I rambled the answers and was so nervous, I couldn't think straight. I hope it won't be that big of a deal. 

[iphi]

My first interview is tomorrow!!! Any last-minute tips? I was really nervous until about 45 minutes ago, and now I'm just tired of obsessing over it.

[Blue4]

My first interview is tomorrow!!! Any last-minute tips? I was really nervous until about 45 minutes ago, and now I'm just tired of obsessing over it.

I've applied to Ed.S programs but make sure you have answers ready for the typical questions they are going to ask such as why school psychology? what is your experience working with diverse groups (I got stuck on that one), strengths/weaknesses? Goals? ...etc! I imagine you will be asked research questions as well since you applied to Ph.D programs. 

[iPsych]

My first interview is tomorrow!!! Any last-minute tips? I was really nervous until about 45 minutes ago, and now I'm just tired of obsessing over it.

 

Haha thats how I felt the day before my first as well.  For me, personally, I think it helped that I was tired of obsessing over it because then I went into the interview not feeling as nervous.  I think it actually made me more confident.  Just remember that they invited you because they liked what they saw in your app and want to meet you in person. The interviewers are just as excited as you are! 

 

Like Blue4 said I would just be prepared to answer research questions since it is a PhD program.  I read on some other threads that common research questions are things like:

 

Talk about your thesis/published works (experimental design, results and implications)

If you had all of the funding in the world what would you want to research?  How would you design the study?

 

Good luck! 

[iphi]

Haha thats how I felt the day before my first as well.  For me, personally, I think it helped that I was tired of obsessing over it because then I went into the interview not feeling as nervous.  I think it actually made me more confident.  Just remember that they invited you because they liked what they saw in your app and want to meet you in person. The interviewers are just as excited as you are! 

 

Like Blue4 said I would just be prepared to answer research questions since it is a PhD program.  I read on some other threads that common research questions are things like:

 

Talk about your thesis/published works (experimental design, results and implications)

If you had all of the funding in the world what would you want to research?  How would you design the study?

 

Good luck! 

 

Thanks! I'm in the middle of it now and so far it's all been questions I've anticipated, which is nice!

[SchoolPsyched]

Hey Everyone, 

 

I had my first School Psychology PhD interview yesterday. It was a full day event that consisted of graduate panel (during your breaks), 30 minute long interviews with faculty and separate 30 minute interviews with the research teams. (8 interviews total). Breakfast and lunch were provided and we were encouraged to mingle with faculty and graduate students. The day ended with dinner and beer (which was nice) at a local restaurant/music venue. The graduate students seem to have a lot of say in who gets into the program because they are the ones that will have to work with you for 4 years or more. Most of the interviews with faculty included them telling me about their research and asking if I had any questions. So, come prepared to ask tons! The graduate students were more interested in my particular research interest and style as a professional than some of the faculty. 

 

Some of the questions I was asked:

Why did you choose our school/program/lab to work in?

What research ideas do you bring to the table?

Do you play beer pong? Because we have tailgate parties every game day outside the building (which was odd, but definitely a nice ice breaker)

What other schools have you applied to? (awkward question, but if I were you, you should only name a few and try to name ones that are similar to the program you are presently interviewing for)

Why do you think you would be a good fit for this program/lab?

What types of skills do you bring to the program? 

What made you choose this field as a profession and where do you see yourself after you graduate?

Give me your story of how you chose the field of school psychology

Are you familiar with Applied behavior analysis? 

What are your research interest? What kind of research have you conducted? What were your findings? Do you wish to continue doing this particular research if you were admitted?

What do you like to do for fun? (don't say read psych articles and conduct reserach! They want to see your full personality. 

What weaknesses or hardships do you think you might face in grad school and how do you feel you will overcome these obstacles?

Are you familiar with so and so? (read other researchers work in the area you want to specialize in and if you don't know who someone is, do not lie and say you do!)

Have you had any experience working with children? Diverse popuations? What grades are you interested in working with? 

 

These are just some of the things I was asked. 

 

 

Interviews are notoriously bad for collecting accurate detailed information about someone. Therefore the goal in an interview such as this is to leave the interview with a net gain in positive emotion about you. As such, there are important things to avoid, things that would lead them to feel less positive about you. Such things include the following:

 

1.     interrupting

2.     showing off

3.     asking odd, irrelevant questions

4.     showing lots of anxiety or worry or doubt

5.     coming on too strong or being cocky

6.     asking too many questions and not being open to hearing questions

 

 

There are also things that you can do to help the interviewer feel more positive about you, based on the research on interpersonal liking:

 

1.     smile, a lot!

2.     Be sweet, a lot!

3.     like the interviewer

4.     like what the interviewer likes

5.     like the program

6.     like the folks in the program

7.     like the city

8.     be curious about the program

9.     be prepared and informed, but only enough to speak wisely if asked about something

10.  don’t make the interview about getting your questions answered; that can come later if/when you get an offer

11.  be professional with EVERY interaction you have (email, interview, dinner chat, car ride). Everything!

12.  Dress professionally. Don’t try to make a statement with your attire. Blend.

[iPsych]

Hey Everyone, 

 

I had my first School Psychology PhD interview yesterday. It was a full day event that consisted of graduate panel (during your breaks), 30 minute long interviews with faculty and separate 30 minute interviews with the research teams. (8 interviews total). Breakfast and lunch were provided and we were encouraged to mingle with faculty and graduate students. The day ended with dinner and beer (which was nice) at a local restaurant/music venue. The graduate students seem to have a lot of say in who gets into the program because they are the ones that will have to work with you for 4 years or more. Most of the interviews with faculty included them telling me about their research and asking if I had any questions. So, come prepared to ask tons! The graduate students were more interested in my particular research interest and style as a professional than some of the faculty. 

 

Some of the questions I was asked:

Why did you choose our school/program/lab to work in?

What research ideas do you bring to the table?

Do you play beer pong? Because we have tailgate parties every game day outside the building (which was odd, but definitely a nice ice breaker)

What other schools have you applied to? (awkward question, but if I were you, you should only name a few and try to name ones that are similar to the program you are presently interviewing for)

Why do you think you would be a good fit for this program/lab?

What types of skills do you bring to the program? 

What made you choose this field as a profession and where do you see yourself after you graduate?

Give me your story of how you chose the field of school psychology

Are you familiar with Applied behavior analysis? 

What are your research interest? What kind of research have you conducted? What were your findings? Do you wish to continue doing this particular research if you were admitted?

What do you like to do for fun? (don't say read psych articles and conduct reserach! They want to see your full personality. 

What weaknesses or hardships do you think you might face in grad school and how do you feel you will overcome these obstacles?

Are you familiar with so and so? (read other researchers work in the area you want to specialize in and if you don't know who someone is, do not lie and say you do!)

Have you had any experience working with children? Diverse popuations? What grades are you interested in working with? 

 

These are just some of the things I was asked. 

 

 

Interviews are notoriously bad for collecting accurate detailed information about someone. Therefore the goal in an interview such as this is to leave the interview with a net gain in positive emotion about you. As such, there are important things to avoid, things that would lead them to feel less positive about you. Such things include the following:

 

1.     interrupting

2.     showing off

3.     asking odd, irrelevant questions

4.     showing lots of anxiety or worry or doubt

5.     coming on too strong or being cocky

6.     asking too many questions and not being open to hearing questions

 

 

There are also things that you can do to help the interviewer feel more positive about you, based on the research on interpersonal liking:

 

1.     smile, a lot!

2.     Be sweet, a lot!

3.     like the interviewer

4.     like what the interviewer likes

5.     like the program

6.     like the folks in the program

7.     like the city

8.     be curious about the program

9.     be prepared and informed, but only enough to speak wisely if asked about something

10.  don’t make the interview about getting your questions answered; that can come later if/when you get an offer

11.  be professional with EVERY interaction you have (email, interview, dinner chat, car ride). Everything!

12.  Dress professionally. Don’t try to make a statement with your attire. Blend.

 

Thank you so much for this post!! This is really great advice.  I applied to a variety of PsyD School Psych, PsyD School-Clinical Child Psych and PhD School Psych programs and I've been particularly nervous about the PhD interview since I know there's gonna be an emphasis on research.  Knowing some questions that I could be asked definitely helped to calm my nerves !!