meganmay Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) This is my first post here! I am currently working on my Graduate school applications in hopes of earning my Masters and PhD in the German language. In May 2014, I will have a double major BA in German and Creative Writing. I don't really have any clear ideas of exactly what I want to do with a PhD in German, but I know I want to further my knowledge and proficiency of German. I am interested in writing creatively in German as well as translation, interpretation, publishing, other writing, and anything that would allow me to use German in my career. I'm doing research on the universities I plan on applying to: University of Minnesota Twin Cities and University of Wisconsin Madison about the specifics of their German programs (research, focuses, etc.). I just want to write a good statement of purpose and I don't want to be hurt by not having a career option in mind. What other careers are possible? If you've applied, were you already set on your career in your application? Thank you! Edited November 13, 2013 by meganmay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganmay Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 Bump.....I would also like to say that one of the Universities require me to submit a "Statement of Professional Goals" so I guess I NEED something to say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ἠφανισμένος Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Since no one has responded, I'll jump in, though my field isn't modern languages. It's troubling that you say you don't have a "clear idea" of what you would do with a PhD in German, but you're planning to apply for one anyway. Generally, the PhD is a professional degree: the PhD in German prepares you to apply for jobs teaching and researching in German, primarily at universities. If you don't have well-defined research interests in some area of German (literature, linguistics, culture, etc.), the PhD is probably not a good idea right now. Also, why only two schools? If you're set on pursuing the PhD in German, you should choose schools based on faculty who are working on areas you're interested in and based on the placement rates of recent PhDs from the department. You might consider applying for a Fulbright to Germany or Austria (either a study grant or an English teaching assistantship; the latter is less competitive). If you got one, you'd live in a German-speaking country for a year, probably get a better idea of what you'd like to do with German, and your PhD applications would be that much stronger. Also, check out this (fairly negative) piece from a recent German PhD. It may give you a better idea of why a PhD in any humanities field is potentially a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganmay Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 I listed the ideas I do have, literature is not clearly stated, but I mentioned working in publishing and hoping to write my own work in German eventually. I just don't know what someone with a German literature emphasis would do? As for applying to only two schools, I don't have a lot of options. It's not too easy to pick up and move halfway across the country, MN and Madison are both close to where I live and they have great German programs. Both Universities have fields I am interested in (literature, culture, literary translation, and language acquisition) I'm also interested in learning other languages, which could be an option since both departments are based around German, Dutch and Scandinavian languages. I definitely have a lot of research interests in the fields that are offered at both Universities, I just don't know exactly what career options are available to me, besides what I have already expressed interest in. As for the Fulbright, that is out of the option for this year as the applications were due last month. I don't want to wait around a full year losing my language knowledge at the chance that I won't even get accepted. I've already expressed that I don't really want to be a teacher; that article is not exactly very informative, mostly opinion based with some links of other similar articles. I can see where the author is coming from, but I want to learn this language. I want to learn German, and I don't see how else this is going to happen. There are more jobs out there than just being a teacher. I will hold BA in Creative Writing and German, I'm not limited in the least. I see that Grad school is hard work, but that's what I want. I know it's expensive, but through both Universities, there are great Fellowship programs, etc. Further education beyond a BA can potentially be bad even for non Humanities fields. I'm initially applying for application to the Masters program at both of the Universities, but I have selected that I am interested in pursuing a PhD. Everything is not set in stone (especially since I haven't applied yet, and of course am not accepted), so I can decide to only pursue a Masters if I so choose. Kind of funny that you posted that article (Petros) since it appears you are applying to get your MA and are unsure of pursuing your PhD. Please, can I get some helpful answers instead of discouragement for my dreams? poliscar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heliogabalus Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Megan, it's just that PhD programs are really interested in turning out profesors. There are people that finish the PhD and go into another line of work--but the grad programs don't really help them to get those jobs, and within grad school culture, those people are looked at as kind of failures. I know that's ridiculous, but the pride and joy of a grad program is its placement record, and that really is just looking at acadmeic placements.An MA is a good idea, and I would check out Middlebury's program, or programs in Germany/Austria.As far as translation goes, I'm a translator, and if you are translating literature, it is usually something you do on the side, since it is incredibly difficult to make a living at it. (Translating technical, legal documets, etc. is something else) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heliogabalus Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I never would have thought this, but the odds of making a living as a literary translator are much less than getting a tenure-track professor job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ἠφανισμένος Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I'm hoping someone else who's in a modern language field will chime in, but I'll respond to some of your points. First of all, I really am not trying to discourage you from your "dreams." Bear in mind that my own field is classics, which is as bad or worse as German in terms of academic job prospects. Second, you say you're interested in German literature, but on your own admission, you're not sure what that means. To write a good statement of purpose, and ultimately to be reasonably happy in a German literature PhD program, you need to know what, specifically, you're interested in and how your interests align with faculty members' interests where you're applying. If you write a dissertation about German literature, that will prepare you to apply for faculty positions at universities in German literature. The job prospects are bleak. I don't say that to discourage you; it's simply a fact. As I mentioned, I have already decided to go into a field whose job prospects are just as bleak if not worse. Third, I'm well aware that it's hard to move across the country. I've moved a couple of times myself. But unfortunately, especially in this academic job market, it's important to go to the programs that are the best fit for you. If the absolute best fits for you are Minnesota and Wisconsin, great. But depending on your interests, which seem very vague at this point, there may be other excellent fits for you, even without leaving the Midwest. Finally, do consider a gap year. You can maintain and even improve your German in the meantime -- it won't wither away and die -- and you can do more research on grad programs and on the Fulbright ETA so you can have stronger applications when you do apply. bumbl3b33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleep_Bloop Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I'm getting my PhD in a modern language, though it's not German. PhD programs in languages are first and foremost meant to churn out scholars who conduct research on cultural production in the target language (be it literature, film, visual studies, etc). You have to have a very strong interest in studying these topics, as all of your coursework (and later generals and thesis) are going to be on these topics or similar ones. You should also have a strong interest in critical theory and cultural studies, as you'll be trained in them and expected to use them in your work. Exceptions to this are linguistics tracks in foreign language departments, though they're not as common and require a background in linguistics which you didn't say you have. Either way, you should only consider a PhD in a language if you want to be a professor at a university, which means teaching and. research. You said you we interested in creative writing, translation, interpretation, etc. These aren't things that you'll be doing as a PhD student in language (they're not your primary responsibilities, sure you'll most likely have to translate at some point but only because your research requires it). I'm not trying to be discouraging, you should be aware of these things before you apply so as not to waste money on the application fees and to avoid potential disappointment if you were to start one of these programs. Also, translation/interpretation is extremely difficult in the United States, and German is in especially low demand. I did translation on the side for a while. Most work is freelance and doesn't pay much, there's no way I could have survived on it as my primary source of income. If this field appeals to you, you would have to work in Europe and it would be very difficult. An average translator/interpreter needs to know around 4 or 5 languages fluently to be competitive and eek out a modest living, and many of those languages will have to be less common (think Finnish, Croatian, Hungarian, etc). It sounds like you really want to do this because you want to perfect your German language skills and later use them in a non-academic career. However, language teaching isn't a focus of a PhD program as near-perfect language skills are basically a prerequisite for non-native speaking grad students like me. There are definitely easier, less expensive, less stressful ways to work on your language skills. The best would be to simply move to a German-speaking country and find work for a while. You'll be totally immersed culturally and linguistically, have opportunities to travel, etc. The easiest way to do this is with Fulbright, as others have mentioned, because they set everything up for you. However, when I did my Fulbright ETA I was really surprised by how many of the expats I met had just moved to the country and found work. It might sound intimidating, but it's totally doable. If money isn't an issue, look into a Middlebury program (though I think they have scholarships too). Also, PhD programs in languages don't usually focus on creative writing. Creative writing programs in foreign languages aren't common because the MFA is an American invention. Among the departments that do have such a program, it's usually either a certificate or an MA (read: cash cow). For example, NYU has a masters in creative writing in Spanish, but it's a very unique program. The PhD program, however, does not include creative writing. I haven't looked at the web pages for the departments you listed, but I would really be surprised if they offered coursework/mentoring in creative writing. bumbl3b33 and poliscar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeMyCoffeeBlack Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Megan, es gibt keine Garantie, dass ein PhD dir die Möglichkeit geben würde, die deutsche Sprache zu beherrschen. Der Schwerpunkt des "Doktortitels" (mindestens in den USA) ist Forschung, nicht Sprachkompetenz (das gilt nur als notwendig in Bezug auf die Forshungsmöglichkeiten). Es wäre auf jeden Fall besser, dich nach Deutschland oder Österreich einzuziehen, oder vielleicht ein Masters zu machen, das um die Sprache und Literatur geht. poliscar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeMyCoffeeBlack Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 It sounds like you really want to do this because you want to perfect your German language skills and later use them in a non-academic career. However, language teaching isn't a focus of a PhD program as near-perfect language skills are basically a prerequisite for non-native speaking grad students like me. There are definitely easier, less expensive, less stressful ways to work on your language skills. The best would be to simply move to a German-speaking country and find work for a while. You'll be totally immersed culturally and linguistically, have opportunities to travel, etc. The easiest way to do this is with Fulbright, as others have mentioned, because they set everything up for you. However, when I did my Fulbright ETA I was really surprised by how many of the expats I met had just moved to the country and found work. It might sound intimidating, but it's totally doable. If money isn't an issue, look into a Middlebury program (though I think they have scholarships too). Right on. I've heard mixed reviews about the Middlebury programs, though (namely that the teachers they hire aren't necessarily individuals with exceptional language competence, say B2 instead of C2). In any case, Fulbright and DAAD are both exceptional opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliscar Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I listed the ideas I do have, literature is not clearly stated, but I mentioned working in publishing and hoping to write my own work in German eventually. I just don't know what someone with a German literature emphasis would do? As for applying to only two schools, I don't have a lot of options. It's not too easy to pick up and move halfway across the country, MN and Madison are both close to where I live and they have great German programs. Both Universities have fields I am interested in (literature, culture, literary translation, and language acquisition) I'm also interested in learning other languages, which could be an option since both departments are based around German, Dutch and Scandinavian languages. I definitely have a lot of research interests in the fields that are offered at both Universities, I just don't know exactly what career options are available to me, besides what I have already expressed interest in. As for the Fulbright, that is out of the option for this year as the applications were due last month. I don't want to wait around a full year losing my language knowledge at the chance that I won't even get accepted. I've already expressed that I don't really want to be a teacher; that article is not exactly very informative, mostly opinion based with some links of other similar articles. I can see where the author is coming from, but I want to learn this language. I want to learn German, and I don't see how else this is going to happen. There are more jobs out there than just being a teacher. I will hold BA in Creative Writing and German, I'm not limited in the least. I see that Grad school is hard work, but that's what I want. I know it's expensive, but through both Universities, there are great Fellowship programs, etc. Further education beyond a BA can potentially be bad even for non Humanities fields. I'm initially applying for application to the Masters program at both of the Universities, but I have selected that I am interested in pursuing a PhD. Everything is not set in stone (especially since I haven't applied yet, and of course am not accepted), so I can decide to only pursue a Masters if I so choose. Kind of funny that you posted that article (Petros) since it appears you are applying to get your MA and are unsure of pursuing your PhD. Please, can I get some helpful answers instead of discouragement for my dreams? You have gotten helpful answers; you just have no idea what you're getting into. http://german.lss.wisc.edu/new_web/?q=node/283 Read some of these graduate student profiles, and then compare what you've written. You are not going to get into a PhD program to learn a language. You are not going to get into a PhD program based on an interest in creative writing. You are not going get into a PhD program if you state that you want to go into publishing. Doctoral programs prepare you for Academia, not "other careers." Those who are accepted, and go on to complete dissertations, are almost 99.9% sure to be oriented towards some sort of academic field. While this may be (rarely) museum/archival/library work, it is almost always a) research and teaching. If this is not what you want to do, get an MA (at most) and then go elsewhere. bumbl3b33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeMyCoffeeBlack Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 If this is not what you want to do, get an MA (at most) and then go elsewhere. Or, if you're set on a Ph.D., do the MA first and develop specific research interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aymeric Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 If this field appeals to you, you would have to work in Europe and it would be very difficult. An average translator/interpreter needs to know around 4 or 5 languages fluently to be competitive and eek out a modest living, and many of those languages will have to be less common (think Finnish, Croatian, Hungarian, etc). Hello, Actually German is very much needed for interpreting services at the EU because of the lack of English-booth interpreters with German. So if you have English, German and French, you would probably be considered for a freelance test without having to offer a 4th language. At least it was true a couple of years ago. The best way to know is to contact them directly. The English booth is crucial for them, so they are always on the lookout for interesting language combinatioins. But I think you would have to have French too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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