2.5 GPA in Math, Lousy GRE, want Masters in CS

[absracto]

I got a bachelors in Math from a good UC school in 1999 and have been working as a professional programmer ever since.

Unfortunately, my upper division major classes GPA was a 2.5, the absolute minimum needed to graduate. To make things worse I pretty much bombed the Math section of the GRE.

My goal: I want to get a Master's in CS. Part of it for enhancing my career, and the other part for when the day comes that I'm too old to be a programmer, I can teach CS in a university. That seems a lot better than trying to take a management/executive track, since I dislike that stuff.

I realize I'm in no shape to apply to any decent grad school with my current academic record. But, now I have a plan! (watch out people, he's got a plan)

Actually, before going any further .. if you are reading this and thinking to yourself "Hmm, I know what I'd do in that situation", please post it before having your thoughts skewed by my plan.

So, uh, here's my plan: I'm gonna RAISE my GPA by taking more undergraduate courses, and get it as close to a 3.0 as I can (the grad school I'm currently aiming for, UCSC, requires a 3.0 minimum). I will take undergrad CS courses, and am confident I will do very well since I'm a professional programmer and I already have a good feel for the material.

Either I'd take these courses outside of any degree program, and just "average them in" to my first degree. Or, possibly do a complete 2nd undergraduate degree. Depends on:

* Can undergrad classes taken after a completed degree, in a different but highly related subject, just be "averaged in" to raise the GPA of the first degree? Does it really depend on the admissions officer how they will subjectively treat it?

* If I did a 2nd undergrad degree, could a I use classes from my 1st degree to satisfy pre-reqs and avoid re-taking certain classes? (I guess I should just ask the prospective schools)

* If I did a 2nd undergrad degree, would I have to re-take general education? Or could that be transferred over from my first degree? (ditto)

* What's a better overall approach -- "average in" or whole new 2nd degree?

For these classes / undergrad program, I was planning to enroll at Regis (http://www.regisuniversity.org/degrees- ... cience.php) or something equivalent. I want to do this online if possible, since it would be way more convenient. Not sure how much clout / impact factor these schools have though in terms of being recognized by grad schools. Any tips on finding a good online program that will be at least moderately esteemed by grad schools?

Oh and I would retake the GRE. This time in CS, not Math. I would prepare for it and would expect to do much better. After looking at a few practice questions, it didn't look horrendously difficult (like math was).

So does this plan have any sliver of chance of getting me into a CS Masters @ UCSC? If not, what is the recommended path?

[RedPotato]

Some schools have customized degrees for people who are in "non traditional" situations. (Non traditional being anything not graduating at 21-ish) That way, you could get the skills you need, without taking intro to writing at the freshman-level.

I don't know much about programing.... so its just a thought. good luck.

[flit]

I think the most likely to be effective part of your plan is to go talk to someone at your prospective school(s).

I was able to apply previous courses toward my undergraduate degree, which greatly shortened the amount of time it took and did not at all hamper my ability to continue on to grad school... but I think that in my case, only courses in which I got As were credited....so that might be an issue. Certainly can't hurt to ask though.

[belowthree]

the grad school I'm currently aiming for, UCSC, requires a 3.0 minimum

In my experience these requirements are often able to be waived if the admissions committee decides they like you. Since we're talking about UCSC, I can state with certainty that this is the case as I was offered admission there this last cycle and will be starting their PhD program in the fall. Then again, I had a decent number of random factors in my favor and some nice letters of rec. Still, my GPA is only a quarter point above yours and unlike you, I'm still in undergrad, so it's not like this is something that could be explained away by me as an "error of my youth."

I'm not sure going to an online university would be the most effective use of your time. As long as you're not expecting funding, it might be more wise to invest that time in working on open-source projects or even doing some research.

[fes_alum]

I would recommend applying to a graduate program as a NON-DEGREE student. Once you have successfully completed 2-3 courses in your intended field, you should then apply for regular status. Many programs will admit you if you've demonstrated that you can handle graduate-level work. You should also speak with the admissions officer at the graduate school you're interested in attending--they will provide the best advice.

[absracto]

Kudos for the informative post! That's crazy you are even going to the same school I want to go to. Congrats + I'm jealous

I'm not sure going to an online university would be the most effective use of your time.

Yeah, I should probably talk to the admissions department before jumping into this and get a feel of their "impact factor" rating for certain online schools.

As long as you're not expecting funding, it might be more wise to invest that time in working on open-source projects or even doing some research.

Yeah, I hear ya. That is how I bootstrapped my career actually. My degree was nice to have, but was really only useful in order to make it past the "must have a bachelor degree, period" employee filters, and what landed me my first solid programming job was an app that I built and released on the internet.

Maybe I could do a project that was "brainy" enough to impress the admissions people and/or faculty for a CS Masters degree program.

OTOH, I do actually want to brush up on my CS skills before attempting to enter grad school (on a part-time basis). Maybe a combination of some UCSC extension classes with good grades (I hope they give grades for those courses), and publishing interesting/challenging open source project... that might be the ticket.

Thanks for the ideas!

[absracto]

I would recommend applying to a graduate program as a NON-DEGREE student. Once you have successfully completed 2-3 courses in your intended field, you should then apply for regular status. Many programs will admit you if you've demonstrated that you can handle graduate-level work. You should also speak with the admissions officer at the graduate school you're interested in attending--they will provide the best advice.

WOW, thanks! I had no idea that option was even available.

I can't thank you enough for this valuable advice.

Here is my new plan sketch after feedback from your post and the others:

* Take UCSC extension courses in computer science / programming (brush up on skills, try to get A's to help offset previous low GPA)

* Take the CS GRE (with lots of preparation)

* Attempt to enter grad program as NON-DEGREE student, complete a few courses, apply for regular status.

* Before doing any of this, speak to an admissions officer and ask them to help refine my plan and offer advice.

[irishwildcat]

Your last point - speak to the graduate admissions coordinator for the department is the most important item. I think you are wasting your time trying to improve your GPA and take the CS GRE (just my opninion only - its worth as much trust as you can put into an anonymous source on the internet).

I would second fes_alum's suggestion to take a couple of courses as a non-degree seeking student. If you can prove you belong, admission will easily follow you once they know you.

Also, realize that your situation is somewhat different and being a non-traditional student has some advantages for strictly a MS. Additionally, if you're american (ie, a US resident) and willing to pay your own way through school, that improves your admission chances - esp. if you can develop that relationship with the coordinator and a couple of professors.

Best wishes.

[StudentAgain]

Hi - I am in a similar yet very different situation. I graduate in 1992 and will be applying to PHD program for Fall 2010 and investigated the things I should do to try to gain admittance. While I am different in that my undergrad GPA was rather high, here is what I did/am doing that might prove useful. (I do not think you should worry about combining your GPA with current/future coursework but think of them as different processes. I do agree that you will be treated differently by those on an admission committee and since your experience relates to your grad interest, focus on that.)

- I enrolled in a one year certificate program (undergrad level/professional) in a related field (only 5 courses). GPA: 4.0 I liked this option because it showed commitment to complete a program - even though it was only 5 courses.

- I will begin a graduate certificate program this fall. I do not plan to complete it prior to beginning my PHD, but it will allow access to graduate classes which can be difficult to enroll in as a POST BA student. It also demonstrates continued interest and commitment. I hope to complete only 2 courses, but that's enough.

- I enrolled/will enroll in 1 additional undergrad course and found a professor who allowed me to take one of her grad. courses as a visiting student this fall. She is the type of professor who I hope to "work with" (ad visor?) in a grad program and since my experience relates to her specialty area, she approved my enrollment.

- (May not apply for MA student but) Go to all the conferences, presentations you can. Join whichever professional associations in your field. I did, and it has been more helpful than I imagined. I am volunteering at one of the professional conferences and have already met professors who have been wonderful to say the least.

Warning - It has been extremely difficult to enroll in courses as a visiting student/open enrollment at Universities. It has taken an enormous amount of time and I often failed. But, I kept researching and through my effort, I succeeded. Hopefully you will have better luck then I did. (Many told me not to take undergrad courses, but I have found them useful to a point. Plus, you have to work on those recommendations.) By the time I apply, I will have been at this for a year and a half and enrolled in 2-3 classes per semester/over the summer.

Good luck.

[was1984]

I'd suggest studying for and retaking the quant portion of the GRE if you did poorly. That's going to be a major blight on your record. Someone with a math degree should be able to get at least a 750 on that test, even with a C average.

[anese]

My goal: I want to get a Master's in CS. Part of it for enhancing my career, and the other part for when the day comes that I'm too old to be a programmer, I can teach CS in a university.

I just wanted to quickly point out that you NEED a PhD to do this. You might be able to find work at a cc, but even those are turning towards doctorate hires now. Certainly, a masters degree would really prepare you for any job where rigorous research-type work is expected of you. If you are willing to pay for the degree it will open up doors.

[belowthree]

I just wanted to quickly point out that you NEED a PhD to do this. You might be able to find work at a cc, but even those are turning towards doctorate hires now. Certainly, a masters degree would really prepare you for any job where rigorous research-type work is expected of you. If you are willing to pay for the degree it will open up doors.

This happens to be false. Lecturer appointments are still available to people with lots of industry experience and an MS in this particular field.

Now getting them is another story. Usually you have to know someone or be on the staff (non-teaching) for a few years and get really lucky. But you don't absolutely *need* a PhD unless you want a professor title. (In which case you have to have one because if you don't they go down in their rankings. Although departments have been known to hire people and then they don't actually get their PhD until a few years after because they were so lax in filling out paperwork... *cough*)

I am actually of the opinion that a master's degree in CS in particular happens to be fairly useless, but it sounds like the OP has a pretty good theory on what he wants to use it and is one of the few students who has a clue on what he can actually expect it to get him.

[anese]

This happens to be false. Lecturer appointments are still available to people with lots of industry experience and an MS in this particular field.

Now getting them is another story. Usually you have to know someone or be on the staff (non-teaching) for a few years and get really lucky. But you don't absolutely *need* a PhD unless you want a professor title. (In which case you have to have one because if you don't they go down in their rankings. Although departments have been known to hire people and then they don't actually get their PhD until a few years after because they were so lax in filling out paperwork... *cough*)

I am actually of the opinion that a master's degree in CS in particular happens to be fairly useless, but it sounds like the OP has a pretty good theory on what he wants to use it and is one of the few students who has a clue on what he can actually expect it to get him.

I realized after I commented on this that my knowledge is really in the humanities. I know that in the humanities at least, you should shoot for a doctorate, because while teaching jobs in universities are available for masters degrees, you will hardly ever get tenure without a doctorate and publications. I actually agree with you about the masters degree in CS, I know people who are making plenty of money with just the BS. Most who went back again were going for an MBA so that they could branch out a bit more in their work.

[twocosmicfish]

I realized after I commented on this that my knowledge is really in the humanities. I know that in the humanities at least, you should shoot for a doctorate, because while teaching jobs in universities are available for masters degrees, you will hardly ever get tenure without a doctorate and publications. I actually agree with you about the masters degree in CS, I know people who are making plenty of money with just the BS. Most who went back again were going for an MBA so that they could branch out a bit more in their work.

Science and engineering often hire a few people with industry experience and a masters degree to compensate for the huge number of professors they have with a PhD but no time in industry. Again, these are usually lecturer or instructor positions only, although there are exceptions - at least one Assistant Professor at my undergrad had a masters. The downside is that these positions lack both the privileges of professors (esp. tenure) and the salaries of industry.