LOR Dilemma - How important are recommenders' credentials?

[Polibee]

I have been out of school for over 5 years now and have not kept in touch with old professors other than through Facebook feeds. With that said, I was able to get a letter from one professor, who was my academic advisor, and the other two are from previous employers. One, has his master's and the other has a B.A. but is an Assistant Director of College Readiness at a Higher Education Board and oversees many education projects. My question is, do recommenders' credentials actually matter especially if the applicant has been out of school for a while?

 

I am applying to M.A./M.Ed. programs in International Education and to my understanding professional experience, especially in international settings, is vital.

 

Thanks!

Edited December 27, 2013 by Polibee

[Canis]

The most important thing for a LOR is their ability to write a detailed reference that is specific and about you. Those who have the most experience working with you and most knowledge of your abilities are the best reviewers. If you've been out of school, that could be employers.

 

Every program and committee are different, but there is a great benefit to having LOR from people who are in the same field as those reviewing your application - and there's no question that people in that field who are known/respected/trusted by your admissions committee will have a greater impact with their LOR. But you have to do what you can, and you're much better off having people write for you who know you well, and who have been in positions similar to being your professor, such as employer, manager, director of something you worked on, etc.

 

You're better off with a reviewer who knows you well and isn't a professor than one who doesn't know you at all and is a professor. Most all LOR forms ask how long they have known you and in what capacity. If you're wondering who to choose, a great way is to look for the form that your university of choice has available to download for LOR writers who can't use the online form - see what questions it asks and think about who would answer them the best.

[ratlab]

You're better off with a reviewer who knows you well and isn't a professor than one who doesn't know you at all and is a professor. Most all LOR forms ask how long they have known you and in what capacity. If you're wondering who to choose, a great way is to look for the form that your university of choice has available to download for LOR writers who can't use the online form - see what questions it asks and think about who would answer them the best.

 

I respectfully disagree in one capacity. A LOR is supposed to speak to the applicants ability to succeed in the program by doing research, coursework, or general overall prospects in completing the program (by highlighting different qualities and skills). My honest opinion is that getting a letter from a BA is not ideal and I would look for another LOR if you can find a good one. How can a BA graduate speak to your ability to complete a masters degree when they have never completed a masters degree? This conversation would be even more striking if you were applying to PhD programs. 

 

Do I necessarily think it's a kiss of death? Of course not. Do I think it's to your strong advantage to find another letter from someone who at least has their masters? Yes.

 

I would see if you can submit the BA letter as an extra letter in addition to the 3 who have graduate degrees. Just my two cents. Good luck OP!

Edited December 27, 2013 by ratlab

[MsDarjeeling]

I was in a similar position and when I asked for advice from others in the field (I'm in Psych) I was told that if I could not get all of my letters from academic professors or research supervisors, then letters from employment or volunteer work would be fine if they were in my intended field.  I too have supervisors that have varying degrees of education and I was told to select those that can best speak to my skills, abilities, professionalism, and capacity to succeed in grad school.  I was also told to select those that had the highest education whenever possible.  So a supervisor with a PhD or MA/MS would be great.  A supervisor with a BA/BS or classified as a graduate intern (as in their degree wasn't quite finished) would not be ideal.    

[Canis]

I've never seen an LOR form that asks for the LOR writers highest degree. They do ask for their title however. So if someone with a BA is the Chairperson of the Board for the Open Society Foundation - no one is going to care (or know) that they don't have an MA or PhD.

 

This varies by discipline, but every FAQ I've read at universities about LORs states that if you have been in the 'working world' that letters from employers are fine. Yes, the letter should be from the person who is best qualified to write about your potential to succeed in the program. But a professor with a PhD who doesn't know the applicant will probably write a generic LOR and generic LORs are listed in the Kiss of Death study... So, while I think the ideal is the highest status person within the Academy who knows the applicant well - if there are high status people outside the Academy who know the applicant well and none available within - it would be better to go with the higher status referee outside the academy than the lower status person within who DOES have a PhD, such as an adjunct...

[ratlab]

I've never seen an LOR form that asks for the LOR writers highest degree. They do ask for their title however. So if someone with a BA is the Chairperson of the Board for the Open Society Foundation - no one is going to care (or know) that they don't have an MA or PhD.

 

This varies by discipline, but every FAQ I've read at universities about LORs states that if you have been in the 'working world' that letters from employers are fine. Yes, the letter should be from the person who is best qualified to write about your potential to succeed in the program. But a professor with a PhD who doesn't know the applicant will probably write a generic LOR and generic LORs are listed in the Kiss of Death study... So, while I think the ideal is the highest status person within the Academy who knows the applicant well - if there are high status people outside the Academy who know the applicant well and none available within - it would be better to go with the higher status referee outside the academy than the lower status person within who DOES have a PhD, such as an adjunct...

 

While I think that letters from supervisors are important, their education level and position is extremely important. The adcoms are going to care about their degree, and it is nearly required that they list it in their signature. To be frank, it matters a heck of a lot more when someone who went for a graduate degree says you have the ability to succeed in a graduate program than if your supervisor with a BA/BS says that you are an awesome employee. Being an awesome employee does not mean you will succeed in a graduate program, and it does not give the supervisor insight into how you will succeed in a program they have never done and likely know very little about. I'm not completely denouncing the value of a letter from a non-academic supervisor, but in this case it would be better as an extra letter in my honest opinion.  The situation wouldn't be so questionable if the supervisor had a graduate degree. A generic letter from a PhD professor in your field is better than a fantastic letter from someone with a BA/BS, and I guarantee you that if you were to ask your professors the overwhelming majority would say the same thing. 

Edited December 27, 2013 by ratlab

[Loric]

No.. no it isn't.

 

I have a rec I refer to as "Dr" who my admissions advisor - who has told me point blank he'll be on my adcomm - seemingly will not refer as Dr. XYZ. You should see the emails back and forth between the two of us.

 

"Have you received my rec from Dr. XYZ?"

 

"No, you should follow up with XYZ to confirm he has sent it."

 

"Thanks, I checked with Dr. XYZ and he sent it out today."

 

"Thanks for letting me know! I got the letter from ABC XYZ today and I'm adding it to your file."

Edited December 27, 2013 by Loric

[ratlab]

Your adviser knows he's a PhD. Bottom line - the adcom will know his degree and they will most likely care (likely even from the content of the letter itself). His letter will carry more weight than if he was a BA/BS. This really isn't disputable for the majority of fields (I don't know your field, but based on your forum interactions I'd guess it was theatre, and I really have no idea for theatre). 

Edited December 27, 2013 by ratlab

[Polibee]

Thank you everyone for your advice! It seems there are opposing views. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has actual experience working in admissions. I think perhaps the importance of a recommender's credentials depend on the program to which one is applying. I am going to take my chances since I am applying for an M.A./M.Ed. and not a Phd. I believe my recommender can provide a strong recommendation since she has ample experience in the field of education, especially with managing projects for a very important organization in the state of Texas. 

 

I did two senior capstones (psych/spanish double major) as an undergrad and took courses in research methods and statistics, so I'm hoping my GPA, GRE and coursework will reflect my ability to do research at the graduate level. To my understanding most graduate programs in education (M.A./M.Ed.) are designed with foundation courses in research methods so I will be able to refreshen these skills.

 

What I feel is most important is my professional experience in the field of international education and I am confident my recommenders can attest to the skills I have attained working as a teacher and coordinator in various cross-cultural educational settings.

 

I guess the only thing left for me to do is wait it out and see if I get accepted. If not, it just was not meant to be.

[Canis]

I saw the PhD program admission from the inside for a large university. The program was social science. In all the discussions the only mention of LOR authors was if someone on the faculty knew them personally, or if they were 'famous' in the field. Otherwise, the LORs were never discussed. The primary factor in the admissions process I witnessed was fit with the program's character and interests, and fit with specific professors. Profs would literally say "Yes, I'd work with her" - or "No, I couldn't see myself working with her" - that would make or break applications. There was never once a discussion of the content of LORs. That said, I do think they're very important. But for students applying to this program who were coming from jobs at the UN, or other NGOs, for example - all of their LORs were non-academic and I didn't hear a peep about it.

 

I think the only disagreement you're seeing here is that I'm looking at it from social science. Obviously a social scientist will be interested in an LOR from an employer, will be interested in the narrative of the person's life. If you're looking at it from Behavioral Neuroscience, however, the only thing that will matter is someone with a PhD in the field or a closely related field who can speak about the applicants research abilities. Whereas in sociology, for example, someone's work experience outside the discipline might be important for their project - and their ability to do well at the job might indicate success in the field, especially in terms of fieldwork.

 

So, like pretty much everything on this site, it seems to vary by discipline!

[Loric]

I think what's starting to get under my skin is the notion that any single part of an application - in any field - is "the most important part."

 

It's not. Adcomms vary, between fields and even between the different adcomms in the same school for the same program between application periods. You have individuals making a group decision. Those individuals change over time - between who they are physically and even who they are mentally. Someone from Perfect School with Perfect Record comes in and almost burns the place down? Then the next identical perfect applicant will be scrutinized more highly and possibly skipped over based on the past experience of the adcomms.

 

You need to make everything in your app the best it can be, but really all we can control is "who" writes letters and what we write in the SOP. The rest is the past and pretty much fixed.