Guys help me decide! Urgent!

[widefellow]

Hi guys,

I have narrowed down my options and I would like to hear what you guys have to say.

NYU Draper Interdisciplinary master's program in Humanities and Social Though VS The New School Sociology MA

1. I am an international student, and got my BA in english. My potential subfield is Gender/Sexuality/Deviance.

2. Neither of them provides funding. And they cost pretty much the same.

3. NYU requires a MA thesis while NewSchool only has a final written examination.

4. A prof from Duke told me that Newschool has fabulous profs but MA students seldom get paid attention to.

5. Another prof told me both interdis and dis programs can be good for me to get into a good Phd program.

I am not from the US and didnt know much about american grad schools. Can u guys help me decide which school is better for me? My goal is to get into Top ranked Phd programs in Sociology, Anthro(maybe?), Gender Studies with full funding in two years.

Thanks you guys for helping me out!

Widefellow

[alienatedlaborer]

I haven't heard great things about the Draper program. My impression is that it's basically a money-maker for the university, where students pay a lot of money to get a degree of questionable use. If cost is a factor here, then remember that living in NYC is going to cost you much, much more than living pretty much anywhere else, as even NYU's student housing is no bargain.

Weren't you considering the UChicago MAPSS program as well? It seems like the best option if your goal is to get into a good social science program.

If you're intent on picking NYU or the New School, I suppose NYU has more "big name" professors that might be helpful when applying to PhD programs. But no matter where you go, MA students will likely feel like they get less attention than PhD students. Plan on being a little assertive in order to get the attention you need.

Good luck. Seems like a tough decision.

[widefellow]

I haven't heard great things about the Draper program. My impression is that it's basically a money-maker for the university, where students pay a lot of money to get a degree of questionable use. If cost is a factor here, then remember that living in NYC is going to cost you much, much more than living pretty much anywhere else, as even NYU's student housing is no bargain.

Weren't you considering the UChicago MAPSS program as well? It seems like the best option if your goal is to get into a good social science program.

If you're intent on picking NYU or the New School, I suppose NYU has more "big name" professors that might be helpful when applying to PhD programs. But no matter where you go, MA students will likely feel like they get less attention than PhD students. Plan on being a little assertive in order to get the attention you need.

Good luck. Seems like a tough decision.

Thank you Alienatedlaborer!

MAPSS is only a one-year program, and I am afraid that I could not improve much during this year. (?) I didnt hear any thing good about MAPSS, so,.....I dont know. So far I didnt hear anything good about Draper either......and seems like nobody cares about Newschool.

Hmm..

[alienatedlaborer]

Yeah, I don't know much about the program at the New School, which is why I'll reserve judgement. Search the forums here for more info on Draper and MAPSS, since I'm sure there are a lot of people making similar decisions right now. FWIW, I know a couple of people who did the MAPSS program and went on to top-tier PhD programs and other good research jobs. Of the three schools, Chicago definitely has the best reputation in the social sciences, so getting exposure to their programs, faculty, etc. would no doubt be very helpful.

[PhD2009orbust]

MAPSS is the best choice. Not only do you take courses and write a paper (both of which can transfer easily into a PhD program), but also you are working with people who are well-known in the academy. Chicago has a great group of scholars who does gender.

[hoobers]

I just wrote a long and very detailed report on Draper, and my browser crashed taking it down with it. So it will have to be very abridged:

I went to Draper, and got into four top-15 Soc programs after coming out of it: pretty decent, I think. I would give a slightly reserved endorsement for Draper. Just put the effort to get attention from Sociology people, and you will get it (not a single prof I met in Soc cared much that I was from a different department). Try to take the maximum number of classes in your target department, and start doing this right away. It will help a lot to have faculty links in other departments. Draper classes are OK but are usually too broad and interdisciplinary to be much use for you in the future. If you want to get credits for independent research or doing a summer reading list, make sure you use up a required Draper class. Don't use your non-Draper classes on this: focus those on your goal. Take the other two draper classes with the Draper faculty in your area to get to know that person better. Join an ongoing research seminar in another department to meet the grad students there -- the other Draper students won't be that helpful. Try to get on their event mailing lists, too. Don't rely on the Draper faculty for too much, though forge close links with one or two of them because they will be your backup and your allies against roadblocks, if any come up. They are all great people, but are very young so you probably don't want them to be your thesis advisers or even recommendation-letter writers if you can get the relevant senior faculty to do that for you. Furthermore, in my experience they all understood this, and encouraged me to reach out outside the department. It worked out well in the end.

[slothy]

I'd like to add to the crowd telling you not to discount MAPSS in your situation. Knowing nothing about your financial situation, I'd say that one year is a lot less debt than two since I'm guessing that tuition is similar at these places. Although it's only one year, it's known as a very rigorous program whereas Draper and New School are more questionable. I think you might have gotten the impression from this board that MAPSS is dubious in the sense that most would agree it's not a great option relative to top-15 PhD programs, but I'd say its a standout relative to the other options for an unfunded terminal MA. You will be taking "real" PhD level courses with PhD students - while it might be harder to get professors attention as a MAPSS student, you will probably have just as many or more problems at Draper or New School on a MA track. The only problem in your situation might be that you would have to take a year off between your MA and PhD in order to get the full effect of MAPSS in the admissions process during which you might not be able to legally stay in the US, but at least you wouldn't be accumulating debt during that time (and you could be working on getting your thesis published, ect...).

[alienatedlaborer]

I think Slothy sums it up exactly. It's also worth mentioning that, although students in the MAPSS program are encouraged to wait until they've completed before applying to PhD, the people I know spent that "extra" year doing research for professors at well known research institutes. Between the year of coursework, the master's thesis, and the extra months of research experience, I have to think that their apps looked every bit as appealing as anyone from a 2-year MA program. Your international status makes it a bit different for you, but doing research in your home country is always an option while you wait it out.

In any case, as Hoobers' experience shows, any MA program is going to require you to be proactive in getting the attention of people you want to work with. If you're willing to knock on doors and make those connections, it sounds like Chicago or NYU would both be fruitful options. My personal opinion, however, is that Chicago's reputation and faculty make it the most appealing of the bunch.

[slothy]

I thought of one more variable for you to consider: in general, do you consider yourself to be more drawn to quantitative or qualitative work? If you're strictly qualitative, Draper might make more sense for you. However, if you lean quantitative or even mixed methods, I would encourage Chicago. Draper clearly identifies itself as a "humanities and social thought" degree that happens to incorporate themes/coursework from social science departments, whereas MAPSS is a social sciences degree - many of the MAPSS courses may be theory based, but if you want to pick up some methods courses or dabble in quantitative methods I think MAPSS would be the obvious choice. And I think having finished at least one quantitative methods course would make you much more competitive for soc PhD programs, as I would say that the majority of RA work opportunities demand some basic quantitative skills. (Just from looking at New School's sociology website, it looks like they would also be able to offer some decent methods training.)

[hoobers]

What Slothy says is true -- the Draper classes (and profs) are pretty humanities-centered. However, nobody will stop you from enrolling in a quantitative methods class elsewhere, be it in Soc or in Stats.