Gendered Interactions with Advisor

[snorri]

Have any of you had issues with advisors interacting with you in very gender-specific ways? My advisor regularly compliments on my sense of fashion and admonishes me for not "softening" my language enough when commenting in seminar, but does not recognize those same behaviors in male students. My advisor is well-versed in feminist and queer theory, so it is especially surprising to me. She also gives lavish compliments to male advisees, but each time she compliments me, it comes with a caveat that I basically shouldn't get above my station. Does anyone else receive this kind of feedback on a regular basis, and what do you make of it? Is there an appropriate response, aside from silence? There are other examples, but I don't want to post too many details.

[fuzzylogician]

I have encountered some such treatment, but nothing nearly as systematic as you describe. I am a very direct person so when it happens, if it's coming from someone who I depend on (e.g. a committee member who is writing me letters of recommendation for job applications--a real example from last semester), I confront them about it. I also post about these things on facebook, where I have a lot of linguist friends, and this has led to several interesting discussions lately. I can't say I recommend this approach to everyone and for every transgression, but I think the only way to change the behavior is the make the person doing it aware of the actions. Based on what you say, your advisor will be aware of the consequences, too.  I'm sure other more diplomatic posters will come later and be able to help with how to go about the conversation. My best attempt would be to spend some time collecting data (things that were said, when, comparison with male colleagues in similar situations), and then just have the difficult discussion once, when you have a long meeting that you know should be uninterrupted. If you can do it in response to something she says that is a gendered comment, that's probably the best way to begin the conversation.

 

 

The reason I think it's important to make sure your advisor is aware of this issue is that if you are having gendered interactions with her, I fear that they may also affect any letters of recommendation you will need to get from her when you graduate. It's well known that there is an implicit bias in letters (adjectives used, force of the letter, etc.). It's hard to avoid even when the writer and readers are aware of the problem, and even more so when it goes unnoticed. I'm sure your advisor doesn't mean to have these interactions! Anecdotally, on this point, a professor who is a facebook friend of mine recently had a discussion on her wall about letters for male vs. female applicants to graduate school. Apparently, "bright," "bubbly," and "the total package" were only used for women, and did not make a good impression on the professors who were reading the letters. The most interesting part is just how unnoticed these things go by both writers and readers. It can be completely unintentional, and the writers are well-meaning people who want their female students to succeed. And yet, it has a negative effect on the readers, and hence the students' chances of admissions. 

[ImpulsiveNixie]

In my head I think of two counter-questions - 

 

1) Do you think that you could be particularly sensitive to her interactions with you because you admire her? I ask that question because I find that when I want recognition from someone I am more aware of their interactions with everyone else and then compare. 

 

2) Do you think that she is harder on you because you are female? I used to be in the military and I found that some my female superiors were always hard on me. I got fed up with one of them and eventually confronted her and she explained that she saw potential. A lot of young women in the military tend to fall victim to letting the men "help" them out with things and learn that somehow that is okay. 

 

It could also be that she is more gruff with you because she knows you can take it...? 

[ImpulsiveNixie]

The reason I think it's important to make sure your advisor is aware of this issue is that if you are having gendered interactions with her, I fear that they may also affect any letters of recommendation you will need to get from her when you graduate. It's well known that there is an implicit bias in letters (adjectives used, force of the letter, etc.). It's hard to avoid even when the writer and readers are aware of the problem, and even more so when it goes unnoticed. I'm sure your advisor doesn't mean to have these interactions! Anecdotally, on this point, a professor who is a facebook friend of mine recently had a discussion on her wall about letters for male vs. female applicants to graduate school. Apparently, "bright," "bubbly," and "the total package" were only used for women, and did not make a good impression on the professors who were reading the letters. The most interesting part is just how unnoticed these things go by both writers and readers. It can be completely unintentional, and the writers are well-meaning people who want their female students to succeed. And yet, it has a negative effect on the readers, and hence the students' chances of admissions. 

 

This is very interesting yet alarming at the same time. 

[Human_]

You're upset that she compliments your fashion sense? I don't get...

[snorri]

fuzzylogician: Thank you. Those are really helpful suggestions, and I will definitely keep them in mind moving forward. I'm sure she doesn't realize it, which is part of why I'm confused about the whole thing. It seems like a strange disconnect. And yes, those differences between letters written for male vs. female applicants are concerning.

 

ImpulsiveNixie: Yes, I do think that I could be particularly sensitive to her interactions with me because I admire her, although I think that is a gendered framing of the situation as well, but there is a marked difference between being told you are going to be a star in your field (her reaction to my colleague) and being told not to "read too much into" the positive language she is using to describe my work to others in the department. It's not that she is less willing to compliment me, but that those compliments come with a disclaimer, that bothers me. I know that she sees promise in my work. I'm just troubled by the way she responds to it and to me.

[snorri]

Human: no, I'm not upset that she compliments my fashion sense. There was a bit more to my post than that.

[snorri]

In my head I think of two counter-questions - 

 

1) Do you think that you could be particularly sensitive to her interactions with you because you admire her? I ask that question because I find that when I want recognition from someone I am more aware of their interactions with everyone else and then compare. 

 

2) Do you think that she is harder on you because you are female? I used to be in the military and I found that some my female superiors were always hard on me. I got fed up with one of them and eventually confronted her and she explained that she saw potential. A lot of young women in the military tend to fall victim to letting the men "help" them out with things and learn that somehow that is okay. 

 

It could also be that she is more gruff with you because she knows you can take it...? 

In response to #2: I don't know, but those are good ways to get perspective. Thanks!

[danieleWrites]

Way back in the stone age, I took the intro to literature course for English majors at a big R1. Long story short: the prof was a really great woman, but only if you were female. She picked readings from her specialty, so we read a ton of feminist and proto-feminist work. We started class with 15 people, 4 of them male. We had finals with 1 male. She had that Woman's Studies Professor attitude about male privilege, that they should recognize it and, if they find feminist texts and discussions uncomfortable, it's a good lesson for them. The net effect was that the course was a hostile environment.

So, what to do? Hard to say. Fuzzy has a lot of good ideas. The fact is that there's some Title IX issues going on in the class and with your adviser. You might be someone willing to live and let live, but not everyone will. Some professors need to get slapped by Title IX. Some professors don't have enough self-awareness to realize they're running amuck of Title IX.

If you decide to speak with her, practice first! Come up with some sentences that broach the subject, that turn the problem away from the professor and toward the sexism (I'm not certain why Suzy's critical style is too aggressive and needs to be softened while Tommy's aggressive style is praised and encouraged. Can you explain what the difference is?)

You can be phenomenological. Change your fashion sense. "Do gender," as Judith Butler puts it, differently every class meeting, or every meeting you have with her. If (when) it's remarked upon, tell her that you're doing a phenomenological test on the way people react to gendered text, with your clothing as text. Offer to share your notes with her.

[snorri]

Way back in the stone age, I took the intro to literature course for English majors at a big R1. Long story short: the prof was a really great woman, but only if you were female. She picked readings from her specialty, so we read a ton of feminist and proto-feminist work. We started class with 15 people, 4 of them male. We had finals with 1 male. She had that Woman's Studies Professor attitude about male privilege, that they should recognize it and, if they find feminist texts and discussions uncomfortable, it's a good lesson for them. The net effect was that the course was a hostile environment.

So, what to do? Hard to say. Fuzzy has a lot of good ideas. The fact is that there's some Title IX issues going on in the class and with your adviser. You might be someone willing to live and let live, but not everyone will. Some professors need to get slapped by Title IX. Some professors don't have enough self-awareness to realize they're running amuck of Title IX.

If you decide to speak with her, practice first! Come up with some sentences that broach the subject, that turn the problem away from the professor and toward the sexism (I'm not certain why Suzy's critical style is too aggressive and needs to be softened while Tommy's aggressive style is praised and encouraged. Can you explain what the difference is?)

You can be phenomenological. Change your fashion sense. "Do gender," as Judith Butler puts it, differently every class meeting, or every meeting you have with her. If (when) it's remarked upon, tell her that you're doing a phenomenological test on the way people react to gendered text, with your clothing as text. Offer to share your notes with her.

Yeah, there's something in me that gets riled a bit about this. It doesn't seem right. I really do admire my advisor, and she puts a lot of work into making sure I do well, but the disconnect is a problem. I will practice, and collect info. I want, and need, a strong letter of rec. This market is hard enough without anticipating a less than enthusiastic endorsement from the person who knows my work better than anyone else.

[rising_star]

IIRC, the data on rec letters said that different language was used but not that the letter was any less enthusiastic for a female versus a male. And also, if you're thinking about jobs, it's worth noting that lots of jobs require 3 letters, not just 1, so there would be more than one description of you and your work for the committee to consider.

 

At any rate, yes, you should take notes and eventually address this. You may want to consult with the appropriate staff on campus, confidentially, so that you are appraised of your rights and also her responsibilities as a faculty member. Someone in student affairs should be able to point you in the right direction. Also, you may want to reach out to other, more senior grad students, if you feel comfortable doing so, to see if their experiences corroborate yours.

[snorri]

IIRC, the data on rec letters said that different language was used but not that the letter was any less enthusiastic for a female versus a male. And also, if you're thinking about jobs, it's worth noting that lots of jobs require 3 letters, not just 1, so there would be more than one description of you and your work for the committee to consider.

 

At any rate, yes, you should take notes and eventually address this. You may want to consult with the appropriate staff on campus, confidentially, so that you are appraised of your rights and also her responsibilities as a faculty member. Someone in student affairs should be able to point you in the right direction. Also, you may want to reach out to other, more senior grad students, if you feel comfortable doing so, to see if their experiences corroborate yours.

Thank you for the suggestions. I'll find out who I need to be talking to and see what steps should be taken. I don't want to make a case for anything as much as I want to be able to have an honest conversation about it and make sure my concerns are heard.

[TakeruK]

If it helps, I recently read this blog article and I thought it might provide some helpful insight or at least a story of someone who went through the process of taking further steps in a way that did not compromise their professional relationship with the other person involved: http://womeninastronomy.blogspot.com/2014/01/a-successful-experience-with-sexual.html

 

It's not the same situation as yours, but it sounds like this person was able to do what you want (have someone hear them, start documentation if necessary, and in the end, informally resolve the issue in a positive way for everyone).

[snorri]

If it helps, I recently read this blog article and I thought it might provide some helpful insight or at least a story of someone who went through the process of taking further steps in a way that did not compromise their professional relationship with the other person involved: http://womeninastronomy.blogspot.com/2014/01/a-successful-experience-with-sexual.html

 

It's not the same situation as yours, but it sounds like this person was able to do what you want (have someone hear them, start documentation if necessary, and in the end, informally resolve the issue in a positive way for everyone).

That sounds like a great article! The link doesn't seem to be working for me . . .

[TakeruK]

Hmmm, I am not sure why the link doesn't work (I just tried it again on my computer). But maybe you can google some of these things to find it:

 

Blog title: Women in Astronomy http://womeninastronomy.blogspot.com

The article is titled "My Successful Experience with Sexual Harassment" (the article explains why the author chose the word "successful")

It was posted to this blog by Laura Trouille but the article was written by an anonymous person.

The date was Jan 22, 2014

 

Hopefully that will be enough for you to find it without the link!

[snorri]

Hmmm, I am not sure why the link doesn't work (I just tried it again on my computer). But maybe you can google some of these things to find it:

 

Blog title: Women in Astronomy http://womeninastronomy.blogspot.com

The article is titled "My Successful Experience with Sexual Harassment" (the article explains why the author chose the word "successful")

It was posted to this blog by Laura Trouille but the article was written by an anonymous person.

The date was Jan 22, 2014

 

Hopefully that will be enough for you to find it without the link!

The link works now. It must have just been a temporary glitch. Thank you! I'll go read it.