Removed as co-author because I switched labs

[neuropsych76]

Hello,

 

So I recently switched labs in my graduate program. Before I left my old lab, we collected data, analyzed it, and started writing up two articles. My old advisor told me I would be a co-author on both of these articles since I helped a decent amount with both. However, I was talking with another grad student and she told me that I might not be a co-author anymore since I switched labs before the articles were submitted. She has heard this happen to other students. I have not mentioned this to my advisor yet because I'm not really sure how to bring it up. I think we parted on amicable terms as I expressed to my advisor very openly how I didn't think we were a good fit and was going to look at other labs. My advisor seemed supportive of this as she also realized our research interests were growing apart. However, I did mention to her how I wanted to continue helping with the projects in an email and she never replied to that part which worries me. 

 

So my question: Is this normal to be snubbed on authorship because you left someone's lab? This seems somewhat unethical to me. If I did the work and was previously going to be an author, why should it matter that I left the lab? It seems pretty vindictive to not give me authorship and does harm my academic career as I'll lose two publications. Also, any advice on how I should bring this up with my mentor? I imagine I should just be direct, but I'm wondering if there is anything else I should add. 

 

Thank you!!

[Eigen]

I think you're worrying about something that may or may not happen. 

 

In general, there are some valid reasons for being bumped down the list of authors if you leave a lab- you might not be able to do follow up work needed for revisions, you may or may not be doing the written revisions, or the work may be included as part of a combined manuscript. 

 

I've never seen people bumped off papers entirely, though, usually just to a 2nd/3rd/middle author position, with a grad student in the group who's taking over the project taking primary authorship. 

 

This all depends on the relationship with your advisor, though, so I wouldn't see any reason to worry just because in other situations it happened to other people in the past- they may have been students who just didn't respond to e-mails, or didn't have the time to keep up with the writing/revisions needed to move the paper forward. 

 

Just to be clear, I also wouldn't assume and jump the gun in talking to your advisor. 

 

I think the best tact, if you think it necessary, is to take drafts by her office one day and talk them over with her acting as though you're still going to be co-author. Or e-mail her and see if you can get together to work on the submission, or any number of other things. 

[neuropsych76]

I think you're worrying about something that may or may not happen. 

 

In general, there are some valid reasons for being bumped down the list of authors if you leave a lab- you might not be able to do follow up work needed for revisions, you may or may not be doing the written revisions, or the work may be included as part of a combined manuscript. 

 

I've never seen people bumped off papers entirely, though, usually just to a 2nd/3rd/middle author position, with a grad student in the group who's taking over the project taking primary authorship. 

 

This all depends on the relationship with your advisor, though, so I wouldn't see any reason to worry just because in other situations it happened to other people in the past- they may have been students who just didn't respond to e-mails, or didn't have the time to keep up with the writing/revisions needed to move the paper forward. 

 

Just to be clear, I also wouldn't assume and jump the gun in talking to your advisor. 

 

I think the best tact, if you think it necessary, is to take drafts by her office one day and talk them over with her acting as though you're still going to be co-author. Or e-mail her and see if you can get together to work on the submission, or any number of other things. 

 

That's a good point. I only wrote a small part of the article and mostly helped with data collection/analysis. One thing that worries me in particular is that the grad student told me that they were going to do new analyses for the projects (which would have been my job) and it was assigned to someone else. I told my old advisor I wanted to help finish anything I could for the papers and she did not give me any more work or even details. So I don't really have any opportunity to meet with her since I was waiting for the go ahead to do the extra analyses. I would have been a lower author anyway for both articles, but I still lose the pubs on my CV. 

[Eigen]

I can think of very few cases were someone left the lab but stayed on to do additional work, so yes, it might be the case if they're going to redo the analysis and have someone else do it that you would lose authorship. 

 

But either way, I think you're being overly concerned about something that hasn't happened- your title is "removed as a coauthor because I switched labs", but you haven't been removed yet- you just think you might be. 

 

So go in person to talk to your advisor about redoing the analysis. Don't rely on hearsay. See what they say, and go from there. 

 

Honestly, if you were going to be a lower author, it's not going to be a huge loss on your CV anyway. If you were a co-author, maybe, but you usually on talk about being a co-author on a two-author paper where both contributed relatively evenly. For your CV, what really matters is first author papers, with some 2nd and 3rd authorships being OK, but not hugely important.

[TakeruK]

I think this is a tricky situation. I think it would be unethical for your PI to vindictively remove you from the author list because you left the lab, especially if they are going to still use your analysis. At the same time, it is completely ethical, if the situation was that new analyses needed to be run and the PI chose to have someone in the lab perform them, instead of you. Since you left the lab, I don't think you would have the "right to first refusal" of doing the analysis. So, if the other student replaces your work with theirs, it's okay for you to be removed from the paper since your contribution isn't used anymore. However, if the PI is purposely replacing your analysis for no reason other than to exclude you, then that would be not ethical (although pretty difficult to prove).

 

I agree with Eigen that you should talk to your PI and make a clear plan ahead for what you would contribute to and what you won't be contributing to. Say what you want to do and see what your PI says, and keep in mind that they have the right to not accept your offer to work with them. Also, I am assuming that you left this lab to join another one, so you should also talk to your new lab PI to make sure they are okay with you spending time on this past project. In my program, we all do two projects in our first year and then after our quals, we kind of have to talk to each PI and decide how much more work we'll be spending on each project (and whether it's worth finishing up at all). I think conversations like this are normal, and you should aim to come out of the conversation with both parties knowing what work is expected from you and how you will appear on the author list. It might depend on field, but it's also not super rare for large collaborations to sign contracts stipulating author order/inclusion etc. But I'd be wary of bringing this up unless it is a norm for your group.

[Usmivka]

I agree with Eigen that you should talk to your PI and make a clear plan ahead for what you would contribute to and what you won't be contributing to. Say what you want to do and see what your PI says, and keep in mind that they have the right to not accept your offer to work with them. Also, I am assuming that you left this lab to join another one, so you should also talk to your new lab PI to make sure they are okay with you spending time on this past project.

 

Things usually go better when you decide who will have what responsibilities and authorship in advance. The list can always be revised downwards if someone doesn't significantly contribute.

 

I can certainly see a scenario where a PI decides your contribution is no longer significant enough to meet a journal's authorship criteria if you helped with the initial work but not any of the necessary followup experiments, more in depth data analysis (discussion section type content, not just plotting up raw results), or a significant chunk of writing and editing. Based on your second post, it wouldn't surprise me if this is the case here--even if you want to stay involved, you've left the lab and your former advisor is under no obligation to include you in ongoing work that may in fact comprise the bulk of the project. Up to this point, it sounds like you've done about as much as an undergrad lab assistant might on preliminary work--enough for an acknowlegdment, but perhaps not enough for authorship.

 

As suggested above, I would not delay this conversation any longer if you want authorship. Personally, I would ask for a face to face meeting, lay out your case that you've invested enough time to be an author on the work, and find out exactly what the expectations are for an authorship slot (wait and help edit, write a section, do more of the data analysis?). TakeruK's point above is just as important--will your new boss be interested in seeing you spend time on something that doesn't benefit him/her? Even if they see value to your education in collaborating with other labs, will s/he see an authorship far down the list of names as a worthwhile use of time?

 

Edited January 23, 2014 by Usmivka