"Safety" Schools?

[jhefflol]

U Delaware is on my list as well. One of the things one of my recommenders did for me that was very helpful was that he sat me down and basically told me that if I get a PhD from certain places on my list, I would be hard pressed to find a job. I had added some "safety" or "less-loved" schools to my list to increase my chances, but I ended up cutting about 6 off because of his advice. Looking at my list now, UC San Diego is probably the only other "less loved" program I kept, and I did so because my school has a history of successful applicants to the PhD program there.

 

Claremont Graduate was one that I ended up getting rid of even though my recommender said positive things about the program and a few of the professors from my school have received their PhDs from Claremont. The area wasn't somewhere I necessarily wanted to be in for 7 years because it was kind of too close to home, but not close enough to water for me. The set up of the program seems unique though, and maybe some of you would like to check it out.

[Dr. Old Bill]

Claremont Graduate was one that I ended up getting rid of even though my recommender said positive things about the program and a few of the professors from my school have received their PhDs from Claremont. The area wasn't somewhere I necessarily wanted to be in for 7 years because it was kind of too close to home, but not close enough to water for me. The set up of the program seems unique though, and maybe some of you would like to check it out.

 

I actually loved the town of Claremont. When I lived in Rancho Cucamonga, I used to drive there every few weeks to load up on CDs (Rhino Records was/is a fantastic independent record store), and occasionally catch a live band at a coffee shop called the Press Club. I did briefly consider their program, but funding / fit / placement issues prevented it.

[lifealive]

U Delaware is on my list as well. One of the things one of my recommenders did for me that was very helpful was that he sat me down and basically told me that if I get a PhD from certain places on my list, I would be hard pressed to find a job.

 

I don't know which schools your recommender was telling you to slash, but it isn't necessarily true that prestigious degree = a job. People with elite degrees are regularly shut out of jobs where their degrees are considered too elite. Right now, there are a few schools in my field conducting interviews, and the candidates I've seen so far are from schools ranked #60+.

 

It honestly depends on how the job market shakes down in any particular year. One year might have jobs at top R1s and SLACs, and they'll mostly be interested in people from top schools. Another year might see a lot of jobs open up at smaller regional colleges or branch campuses, and they probably won't be bringing Ivy League grads to do campus interviews. In this field, like generally hires like. And the job market is currently so unpredictable that you never know what kind of job openings you're going to get in any particular year.

[mikers86]

One of the drawbacks to getting a degree from elite university is that it definitely limits who might hire you. Tiny SLAC has the right to wonder whether you're going to just look for a better ranked university during your employment. That may not be the case, but it's something that you potentially have to overcome. The name no longer equals offers. It helps, but you have to make yourself a viable candidate regardless of the program you're in. Top 10 might be the "better" program, but you might produce better, stronger work at a top 50 or 60 or 100. I realize that's what this thread is about, but it can't be said often enough that there is a world outside of elite institutions, and they can be viable options.

 

Before slashing programs, at least those you consider to be potentially good fits, email their DGS and ask if they can share placement rates and institutions where they've placed in the last few years. Some programs don't like transparency, but it can't hurt to inquire. If they aren't placing anywhere, or even graduating students (much harder to find that out without cooperation from professors or current grad students), then you should strongly consider cutting them from your list.

[SilasWegg]

An issue I'm running into with more "top tier" programs is that many appear unwilling to accept many (any) credits from my MA studies. While I love the idea of going to a prestigious PhD program, I'd rather shave off a few semesters of course work at a more "mid-tier" program. I don't necessarily view myself as a strictly "mid-tier" candidate but I feel my application season drifting in that direction...

[jhefflol]

To be fair, my recommender does have his PhD from Harvard, so I can see where his vein of thinking originates. That being said, the schools that I slashed were ones I picked because of their ranking, not because of fit. It was a good decision all around. Also, I'm not applying to any Ivies because of my subject GRE so its not like he was telling me to only apply to Ivies. I have a wide range of schools in my list. This entire process/job market is absolutely a gamble, though.

Edited November 18, 2014 by jhefflol

[HesseBunuel90]

This is an interesting topic. I have applied to a range of programs, and while none of them are top 10s, all are in the top 50. This is due to job prospects partially, but mostly fit. And personally, my undergraduate institution was far from a prestigious one, (it was not even ranked by UNWP) and many of my professors received their PhDs from Harvard, Columbia, UC Berkeley etc. 

 

(As an aside, jhefflol; three Ivies' PhD Programs do not need the subject test: Brown, Columbia, and U-Penn. I applied to Brown, which is my biggest "long shot," but it is also well aligned with my interests.)

[__________________________]

Great thread idea. Y'all are making me think twice about my list (as if I REALLY need to be doing that). Does anyone know anything about George Washington University? I'm kind of interested in them for their Medieval and Early Modern Studies Institute and for Jeffrey Jerome Cohen, but I've been on the fence because of their ranking and because I'm not really familiar with any of the faculty except him...

Also University of Illinois at Chicago is a school that I feel doesn't get enough love. They are extremely well ranked (like top 20) and don't require the subject test. Not exactly a "safety school" I guess, but I would bet that it doesn't get nearly as many applicants as it should simply because it's overshadowed by U of C and Northwestern.

[ProfLorax]

Also University of Illinois at Chicago is a school that I feel doesn't get enough love. They are extremely well ranked (like top 20) and don't require the subject test. Not exactly a "safety school" I guess, but I would bet that it doesn't get nearly as many applicants as it should simply because it's overshadowed by U of C and Northwestern.

I think you're mixing up University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign (ranked #22) and University of Illinois at Chicago (ranked #44). (Not that I care about rankings; they aren't really a factor in rhet/comp. Just wanted to be clear!)

 

ETA: I don't know much about GW except that (1) it's near the Foggy Bottom metro, (2) the amazing Robert McRuer is there, and (3) it's part of the DC consortium, so students can take classes at Georgetown, UMD, American, George Mason, Gallaudet, etc. 

[__________________________]

I think you're mixing up University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign (ranked #22) and University of Illinois at Chicago (ranked #44). (Not that I care about rankings; they aren't really a factor in rhet/comp. Just wanted to be clear!)

 

ETA: I don't know much about GW except that (1) it's near the Foggy Bottom metro, (2) the amazing Robert McRuer is there, and (3) it's part of the DC consortium, so students can take classes at Georgetown, UMD, American, George Mason, Gallaudet, etc.

Mm, for English UIC does pretty damned well here: http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-English/124728/. I'm less familiar with the US News rankings.

That's really cool to hear about GW though, thanks proflorax!

[ProfLorax]

Mm, for English UIC does pretty damned well here: http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-English/124728/. I'm less familiar with the US News rankings.

That's really cool to hear about GW though, thanks proflorax!

Ah, I always forget about the NRC rankings, mostly because I never figured out how to read them!

[unræd]

They are a pain to read!

And I'm a bit puzzled by the relative NRC rankings of the two UI schools, and wonder how sub field specific it is.

[jhefflol]

Great thread idea. Y'all are making me think twice about my list (as if I REALLY need to be doing that). Does anyone know anything about George Washington University? I'm kind of interested in them for their Medieval and Early Modern Studies Institute and for Jeffrey Jerome Cohen, but I've been on the fence because of their ranking and because I'm not really familiar with any of the faculty except him...

 

 

GW was one of the programs on my list that I was advised to remove. It was probably the program that was the hardest to let go. I liked what they had to offer for early modern studies and their resources were nice as well. Maybe give them a shot!

[rdsull89]

UC Riverside should definitely be a consideration--we're pretty well ranked, but less talked about than other UCs. That said, we've had some huge hires in the past few years--Fred Moten, David Lloyd, Sherryl Vint--and an increasingly competitive applicant pool. One thing to keep in mind is that UC students can take a limited number of grad seminars for degree credit at other local UCs for free--so it does encourage cross-campus work and can really help diversify committees and experience. 

[__________________________]

They are a pain to read!

And I'm a bit puzzled by the relative NRC rankings of the two UI schools, and wonder how sub field specific it is.

Yeah' they're all difficult to read though, NRC I usually go by their S (student retention, completion, and maybe placement?) to a slightly lesser extent, the R rank (research). Still a pain though. USN rankings are at least as opaque though - even the subject specific ones.

GW was one of the programs on my list that I was advised to remove. It was probably the program that was the hardest to let go. I liked what they had to offer for early modern studies and their resources were nice as well. Maybe give them a shot!

Yeah, I feel you. I probably won't end up applying sadly. Seems to be no point in applying to a school SOLELY for the presence of one professor...

[Dr. Old Bill]

On 11/18/2014 at 6:56 PM, mollifiedmolloy said:

Yeah, I feel you. I probably won't end up applying sadly. Seems to be no point in applying to a school SOLELY for the presence of one professor...

 

Well, it's worth remembering that it would put you in D.C. with all its Smithsonians, Folger Shakespeare Library, and various other major research centers. And as Proflorax suggests, there are other local schools in the same consortium.

 

[__________________________]

They are a pain to read!

And I'm a bit puzzled by the relative NRC rankings of the two UI schools, and wonder how sub field specific it is.

 

Hard to say.  I think Urbana-Champaign has more medievalists (I'm assuming that's what you'd wonder about), but UIC has the benefit of being in the city of Chicago and thus being closer to the Newberry Library. 

[thepriorwalter]

Saw it mentioned earlier in the thread -- I'm at Florida, if anyone has any questions. 

[chaucerettescs]

I'm also at Florida if anyone has questions. 

 

Personally, I find Florida's program to be very well-rounded (and the faculty here are amazing, especially if you're interested at all in Children's Literature or genre studies).

 

The department is also hell-bent on professionalization and you will rack up a huge amount of teaching experience in the program. With the new 6-year track (which I'm on), you start teaching your first year (composition mostly) and begin teaching in-department lit courses in your third year. I know several 4th and 5th years (in excellent standing, of course) who have taught 3000- and 4000-level literature courses in the department.

 

I'm very happy that I finally reconciled myself to look beyond top 20 programs; as a result, I'm here at Florida and much happier than I think I'd have been elsewhere.

[DarthRoma]

I'm also at Florida if anyone has questions. 

 

Personally, I find Florida's program to be very well-rounded (and the faculty here are amazing, especially if you're interested at all in Children's Literature or genre studies).

 

The department is also hell-bent on professionalization and you will rack up a huge amount of teaching experience in the program. With the new 6-year track (which I'm on), you start teaching your first year (composition mostly) and begin teaching in-department lit courses in your third year. I know several 4th and 5th years (in excellent standing, of course) who have taught 3000- and 4000-level literature courses in the department.

 

I'm very happy that I finally reconciled myself to look beyond top 20 programs; as a result, I'm here at Florida and much happier than I think I'd have been elsewhere.

 

This is great to read. Its great to hear there is a well-rounded program there. Florida has always been my #1 choice, so hopefully the odds are in my favor.

[Ramus]

 Does anyone know anything about George Washington University? I'm kind of interested in them for their Medieval and Early Modern Studies Institute and for Jeffrey Jerome Cohen, but I've been on the fence because of their ranking and because I'm not really familiar with any of the faculty except him...

 

Last year I attended a seminar at the Folger with a PhD from GW, and she had few positive things to say about her program. Specifically, she mentioned that the faculty weren't supportive and that there wasn't really any semblance of community among the early modern cohort. I'm not sure how representative she is of the early modern students there, but her anecdotes didn't really speak well of the program.

[Ramus]

For those of you going the early modern route, UConn and Fordham both look to be good options. Funding over $20K/year is pretty uncommon in schools outside the Top 20, but UConn and Fordham both clock in around $21K. 

 

I'm sure this has been brought up in other threads on safety schools, but teaching loads are real problem for programs outside the top 50. I'm currently in the MA program at Alabama, teaching a 2-2 comp load, and I've found that teaching this much while balancing coursework and writing a thesis is pretty exhausting. From what I've seen, a 2-2 is fairly common at schools lower down the list, especially state schools. Just something to keep in mind.

[__________________________]

Thanks, Ramus, for your helpful comments!

[SilasWegg]

WVU has a pretty good program but they have a 2/2 course load for their PhDs. I'm not sure if this is completely the norm for lower-tier programs though. I'm doing 1/1 now and it can be pretty distracting from coursework obligations. Definitely something to keep in mind when (if) some offers are on the table.

[MedievalMadness]

Yeah' they're all difficult to read though, NRC I usually go by their S (student retention, completion, and maybe placement?) to a slightly lesser extent, the R rank (research). Still a pain though. USN rankings are at least as opaque though - even the subject specific ones.

Yeah, I feel you. I probably won't end up applying sadly. Seems to be no point in applying to a school SOLELY for the presence of one professor...

 

Further, that one professor is not teaching again until Fall 2016. He's on sabbatical for research.