CU Boulder refunds

[ianfaircloud]

I realize there's another thread on CU Boulder.  This thread is specifically related to receiving refunds from CU Boulder for application expenses.  Application expenses include fees paid and financial expenses directly related to application to CU Boulder.  In my case, these are the fees I paid in order to send transcripts and GRE scores.

 

Has anyone received refunds for these application expenses?

 

I emailed some members of the department, and last I heard, there were no plans in place to refund these expenses.  I will be following up with these professors.  Meantime, have any of you heard about refunds (*beyond* the application fee)?

[shelbyelisha]

A little more than a month ago, the graduate secretary said she would "let me know when the committee has come to a decision regarding GRE fee refunds." A few of us emailed again earlier this week, and I have not received any response to that email.  

[ianfaircloud]

A little more than a month ago, the graduate secretary said she would "let me know when the committee has come to a decision regarding GRE fee refunds." A few of us emailed again earlier this week, and I have not received any response to that email.  

 

This is so helpful.  Thanks.  I'm going to follow up with the faculty with whom I emailed, and I'll post the result here.  Would you please post any updates, too?  If the school is going to drag its feet on this, I'm going to look for ways to apply some external pressure.  Brian Leiter, for example, agrees that Boulder owes refunds.  The last thing their department needs now is further embarrassment from refusing to give us what we're due.

Edited January 31, 2014 by ianfaircloud

[Table]

This is so helpful.  Thanks.  I'm going to follow up with the faculty with whom I emailed, and I'll post the result here.  Would you please post any updates, too?  If the school is going to drag its feet on this, I'm going to look for ways to apply some external pressure.  Brian Leiter, for example, agrees that Boulder owes refunds.  The last thing their department needs now is further embarrassment from refusing to give us what we're due.

 

Remember to keep in mind, though, that their chair is currently being replaced, etc. In the earlier threads someone pointed out that it's not like they're busy reading apps… but now we do know they've certainly had their hands full.

 

I'd give them some more time. To be honest, at this point, I don't really intend to pursue a refund. 

[ianfaircloud]

Remember to keep in mind, though, that their chair is currently being replaced, etc. In the earlier threads someone pointed out that it's not like they're busy reading apps… but now we do know they've certainly had their hands full.

 

I'd give them some more time. To be honest, at this point, I don't really intend to pursue a refund. 

 

I have sympathy for them, because I'm human, too.  And so yes, I think they're busy.  And they have their hands full.  And I think you're right that it's a good idea to keep this in mind.

 

However, I think Colorado Boulder absolutely owes us reimbursements.  So I'm absolutely going to pursue a reimbursement.  Colorado Boulder needs to allocate the resources (human and financial) to see to it that we are promptly reimbursed.  This isn't just the department.  The university absolutely needs to marshal the resources necessary to address this immediately.  Last I checked, CU Boulder has a 1.5 billion dollar endowment.  So they sure as hell better repay the $42 they owe me, as well as the dollars they owe others, for their institutional failures.

[ianfaircloud]

Remember to keep in mind, though, that their chair is currently being replaced, etc. In the earlier threads someone pointed out that it's not like they're busy reading apps… but now we do know they've certainly had their hands full.

 

I'd give them some more time. To be honest, at this point, I don't really intend to pursue a refund. 

 

Oh, one more thing.  What apps are they reading?  I missed something related to that...

[shelbyelisha]

This is so helpful.  Thanks.  I'm going to follow up with the faculty with whom I emailed, and I'll post the result here.  Would you please post any updates, too?  If the school is going to drag its feet on this, I'm going to look for ways to apply some external pressure.  Brian Leiter, for example, agrees that Boulder owes refunds.  The last thing their department needs now is further embarrassment from refusing to give us what we're due.

Sure thing, I'll post if I hear anything new.  I'm also with you in pursuing a refund and fully intend to make myself heard until I get my money back.  That being said, I also understand that they have a lot of things going on, so I'm very willing to be patient.  I just don't want it to get swept under the rug.

[Table]

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that people shouldn't pursue refunds. I definitely think everyone deserves a refund.

I do think it would probably be better to give it a month or so instead of pushing them now. Especially instead of going above the department now. I think the dept in all likelihood wants to refund people and hasn't gotten around to working it out. The administration is already at odds with them, I don't see any reason to stir that pot.

I also really doubt Leiter would want to put pressure on them at this point. I imagine he'd be more sympathetic in a month or two...

(I think you misunderstood the comment about the apps, ianfaircloud. It was that they weren't looking at apps, so we thought they should have time to deal with this)

[ianfaircloud]

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that people shouldn't pursue refunds. I definitely think everyone deserves a refund.

I do think it would probably be better to give it a month or so instead of pushing them now. Especially instead of going above the department now. I think the dept in all likelihood wants to refund people and hasn't gotten around to working it out. The administration is already at odds with them, I don't see any reason to stir that pot.

I also really doubt Leiter would want to put pressure on them at this point. I imagine he'd be more sympathetic in a month or two...

(I think you misunderstood the comment about the apps, ianfaircloud. It was that they weren't looking at apps, so we thought they should have time to deal with this)

 

Table, I totally misunderstood the comment.  Thanks for the clarification.  And I'm very sympathetic to your view.  I just want to encourage others who see this forum to pursue the refund.  I think my worry is that, as time passes, fewer will be willing to go to the trouble.  And so the department may not see enough reason.  This is the right time to 'strike', so to speak, while all eyes remain on their department.  Also, I wish the department would simply post on their website, "We will reimburse applicants for all expenses incurred directly as a result of their applications," or something to that effect.  Instead the department explicitly mentions application fees.  So I'm not as confident of their willingness to compensate us fully.  But yeah, I think we're generally on the same page here, Table.  I do appreciate what you're saying, and I'm sure there are 'innocent' folks in the department who are suffering to meet all the exigencies of their unfortunate situation.

[Coggy]

I have sympathy for them, because I'm human, too.  And so yes, I think they're busy.  And they have their hands full.  And I think you're right that it's a good idea to keep this in mind.

 

However, I think Colorado Boulder absolutely owes us reimbursements.  So I'm absolutely going to pursue a reimbursement.  Colorado Boulder needs to allocate the resources (human and financial) to see to it that we are promptly reimbursed.  This isn't just the department.  The university absolutely needs to marshal the resources necessary to address this immediately.  Last I checked, CU Boulder has a 1.5 billion dollar endowment.  So they sure as hell better repay the $42 they owe me, as well as the dollars they owe others, for their institutional failures.

 

As someone who has first-hand information about what's going on in the Boulder's philosophy department, contacting the philosophy department secretary is an exercise in futility. Before pointing fingers at individuals or groups of individuals for not doing enough to reimburse you, you really should first get straight on who you should be contacting. Presumably, you applied through the graduate school–– not the department. The department has relatively little say, if any, on who gets reimbursed for what and when. All of this is handled by the graduate school–– again, not the philosophy department. You want to apply some external pressure? Then apply pressure to the graduate school and the dean of graduate studies–– once more, not the philosophy department. 

[ianfaircloud]

As someone who has first-hand information about what's going on in the Boulder's philosophy department, contacting the philosophy department secretary is an exercise in futility. Before pointing fingers at individuals or groups of individuals for not doing enough to reimburse you, you really should first get straight on who you should be contacting. Presumably, you applied through the graduate school–– not the department. The department has relatively little say, if any, on who gets reimbursed for what and when. All of this is handled by the graduate school–– again, not the philosophy department. You want to apply some external pressure? Then apply pressure to the graduate school and the dean of graduate studies–– once more, not the philosophy department. 

 

Well, I applied to the philosophy program.  The philosophy department made it its business when it posted something to the effect of "We'll reimburse application fees" on its website.  So I think I have it 'straight' about who I should contact.

 

Also, this is administrative stuff.  So presumably the department can direct me to the proper administrative course.  I'll let *them* do that.  So far, I've not heard anything (in communication with relevant faculty) to the effect of, "Hey, you're asking the wrong people."

 

So your advice isn't well-taken.  I think I do have it quite 'straight' about who to contact.

[Coggy]

Well, I applied to the philosophy program.  The philosophy department made it its business when it posted something to the effect of "We'll reimburse application fees" on its website.  So I think I have it 'straight' about who I should contact.

 

Also, this is administrative stuff.  So presumably the department can direct me to the proper administrative course.  I'll let *them* do that.  So far, I've not heard anything (in communication with relevant faculty) to the effect of, "Hey, you're asking the wrong people."

 

So your advice isn't well-taken.  I think I do have it quite 'straight' about who to contact.

 

Simply put, you believe wrongly.  Whatever. If you want to waste your time by barking up the wrong tree, by all means. You want to reject sensible advice about the most effective means to get reimbursed? Have fun with that. 

 

And who exactly is the "relevant faculty"? Because, as far as I know (which is significantly more than you, believe it or not) nobody is currently working on this most pressing of issues. This is because the philosophy department doesn't have your $20.  Regardless, if you're still convinced that the department is  responsible for keeping you up at night, then one reasonable way to "apply external pressure" is to flood the graduate school with emails explaining how outraged you are that you're $20 poorer. The graduate school might then get the philosophy department to cough up your dough. So, regardless of who has the power to reimburse you, contacting the graduate school wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

But keep putting "pressure" on the philosophy department in your own special way. It'll get you far, I'm sure. And while you're at it, continue to adopt an overly hostile tone toward those who offer advice. It'll work wonders in your professional life.

[SelfHatingPhilosopher]

As someone who has first-hand information about what's going on in the Boulder's philosophy department, contacting the philosophy department secretary is an exercise in futility. Before pointing fingers at individuals or groups of individuals for not doing enough to reimburse you, you really should first get straight on who you should be contacting. Presumably, you applied through the graduate school–– not the department. The department has relatively little say, if any, on who gets reimbursed for what and when. All of this is handled by the graduate school–– again, not the philosophy department. You want to apply some external pressure? Then apply pressure to the graduate school and the dean of graduate studies–– once more, not the philosophy department. 

 

Simply put, you believe wrongly.  Whatever. If you want to waste your time by barking up the wrong tree, by all means. You want to reject sensible advice about the most effective means to get reimbursed? Have fun with that. 

 

And who exactly is the "relevant faculty"? Because, as far as I know (which is significantly more than you, believe it or not) nobody is currently working on this most pressing of issues. This is because the philosophy department doesn't have your $20.  Regardless, if you're still convinced that the department is  responsible for keeping you up at night, then one reasonable way to "apply external pressure" is to flood the graduate school with emails explaining how outraged you are that you're $20 poorer. The graduate school might then get the philosophy department to cough up your dough. So, regardless of who has the power to reimburse you, contacting the graduate school wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

But keep putting "pressure" on the philosophy department in your own special way. It'll get you far, I'm sure. And while you're at it, continue to adopt an overly hostile tone toward those who offer advice. It'll work wonders in your professional life.

 

Seconded. Thank you for bring some sensibility to this thread.

Edited February 1, 2014 by SelfHatingPhilosopher

[shelbyelisha]

Thanks for the information, Coggy.  I only emailed the philosophy secretary because she was my point of contact before; it didn't even occur to me to message the graduate school instead.  I'll do so now. Thanks again!

[ianfaircloud]

Simply put, you believe wrongly.  Whatever. If you want to waste your time by barking up the wrong tree, by all means. You want to reject sensible advice about the most effective means to get reimbursed? Have fun with that. 

 

And who exactly is the "relevant faculty"? Because, as far as I know (which is significantly more than you, believe it or not) nobody is currently working on this most pressing of issues. This is because the philosophy department doesn't have your $20.  Regardless, if you're still convinced that the department is  responsible for keeping you up at night, then one reasonable way to "apply external pressure" is to flood the graduate school with emails explaining how outraged you are that you're $20 poorer. The graduate school might then get the philosophy department to cough up your dough. So, regardless of who has the power to reimburse you, contacting the graduate school wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

But keep putting "pressure" on the philosophy department in your own special way. It'll get you far, I'm sure. And while you're at it, continue to adopt an overly hostile tone toward those who offer advice. It'll work wonders in your professional life.

 

Nobody said contacting the graduate school is a bad idea.  I can assure you that I have it on good authority that I'm not barking up the wrong tree.  But I'm not going to name names on a forum like this.

 

I like how you make this out to be all about me.  It really isn't.  I never spend hours trying to track down $50 for me.  I do, however, devote time to making even small things right for other people.  I can see you think I'm overly zealous.  If you participated in the exchanges that I have, maybe you'd feel differently about it.

 

I'd be glad to work with anyone else toward the end of making this right in a way that's reasonable and human.  Message me if you're interested.  This forum isn't a good place to discuss the details of that kind of plan.  I thought it was a good place to discuss broader points, but I'm doubting that.

Edited February 2, 2014 by ianfaircloud

[Table]

Nobody said contacting the graduate school is a bad idea.  I can assure you that I have it on good authority that I'm not barking up the wrong tree.  But I'm not going to name names on a forum like this.

 

Not asking you to name names, but could you elaborate a little on the information you received? Did someone tell you that the best way to pursue a refund was through faculty? 

[shelbyelisha]

So I just contacted the graduate school executive assistant and she responded right away, which is weird for a Saturday.  She asked if I had contacted the Philosophy department directly, I told her I had and hadn't yet heard back.  She said she would follow up with them and get me an answer by Friday.

[ianfaircloud]

Hey everyone.  So I regret some of my harsher comments toward Colorado.  I'm frustrated by this.  I feel like this problem, though smaller than other problems in the world, is not being taken seriously by everyone involved.  I really dislike the attitude, "Well, it's small money, so you aren't a priority.  They have bigger fish to fry."  That's what I hear behind the words of some other posts in this thread.

 

So regarding the real problem: I've been in some communication with more than one member of faculty at Colorado.  The information I received (weeks ago) was that no decisions had been made, and they (i.e. faculty or staff of the department) promised to follow up with me.  The communication also involved an administrative assistant (the title may not be exactly correct here) in the department.  I've not heard from any of these people since then.

 

What I didn't hear from them was, "Hey, you're asking the wrong people."

 

In the meantime, I have been in communication with philosophy faculty not at Colorado, faculty whose judgment I trust.  And I hear from them that this is the appropriate channel to request a reimbursement.  The thought is this: If the department believes I'm barking up the wrong tree, I'll let the department direct me to the right person.

 

But look, if this is such a small problem, then it ought to be easily addressed.  Get on the phone with the dean, the grad school, the interim department chair, and say, "Look, we have applicants who need to be reimbursed."  This is a small matter for them.  We're talking about $10,000 max.  I'd be shocked if they have to dole out half that.  And all I'm looking for right now is assurance that we'll be reimbursed.

 

If you find this unreasonable, fine.  I'm not here to argue with you.  Say what you want to say.  But if you find this reasonable, then I appreciate your willingness to help make this happen.  Maybe "apply pressure" isn't the right phrase here.  But I think those relevant people should know that many voices, not just a few, are behind the request for reimbursements.

 

Edit: By the way, I'm wondering whether everyone understands what we're asking for.  Obviously we're not just asking for application fees to be reimbursed.  For those, of course we would go to graduate admissions -- presumably they are in a better position to refund those fees.  We're asking for application expenses to be reimbursed (GRE scores, transcripts), too.  And it's much less obvious who would take care of that kind of reimbursement. 

Edited February 2, 2014 by ianfaircloud

[ianfaircloud]

OKAY, sorry to move this controversial thread to the top.  There will be some movement on this issue within one week, based on my correspondence with three people (two of Colorado, one of elsewhere).

 

Bottom line is that 'external pressure' is exactly what I expect will have to be applied.

 

I've heard from a member of faculty at Colorado (whose name I won't mention here) that the department has worked with the graduate school, and the graduate school has informed them that it will NOT REIMBURSE us for our application expenses.  I want to protect my identity here, so I'm not posting explicit details related to this correspondence.

 

I was told also, through someone else, that the person to contact is the Dean of the Graduate School, John Stevenson, john.stevenson@colorado.edu.

 

Colorado has a legal obligation to reimburse expenses like test and transcript fees.

 

If you're someone who lost money due to this fiasco at Colorado, please send an email to John Stevenson to express your belief that the university is obligated to reimburse you expenses related to the application.

 

I have it on very good authority that we will be heard.

[Coggy]

 

 

I've heard from a member of faculty at Colorado (whose name I won't mention here) that the department has worked with the graduate school, and the graduate school has informed them that it will NOT REIMBURSE us for our application expenses.  I want to protect my identity here, so I'm not posting explicit details related to this correspondence.

 

I was told also, through someone else, that the person to contact is the Dean of the Graduate School, John Stevenson, john.stevenson@colorado.edu.

 

 

Apology accepted.

[ianfaircloud]

Apology accepted.

 

I'm starting to wonder, based on the maturity and sophistication of your responses, whether you, Coggy, are among the reasons for the recent decline of your department

Edited February 4, 2014 by ianfaircloud

[TheVineyard]

Am I missing something or is this actually about 20 dollars.

If I were you, I would have paid 20 dollars to not have to deal with it.

[ianfaircloud]

Am I missing something or is this actually about 20 dollars.

If I were you, I would have paid 20 dollars to not have to deal with it.

 

It's a matter of principles, not a matter of dollars.  I understand that some people won't go to the bat for principles alone-- they need some kind of financial incentive to do so.  I get that.  That's not me.

[Coggy]

I'm starting to wonder, based on the maturity and sophistication of your responses, whether you, Coggy, are among the reasons for the recent decline of your department

 

Really, the maturity and sophistication of MY responses? Wait, you mean pointing you and interested others in the right direction to more effectively bring about your desired result? And I know you're not referring to the overly pompous and hostile response that the aforementioned post elicited from you. A hostile response, I might add, which ended up being without grounds. Also, I like how you infer that I'm a member of the department. I said no such thing. I hope this Masshole attitude of yours really gets you far in life–– your reasoning abilities sure as hell won't. 

[shelbyelisha]

Am I missing something or is this actually about 20 dollars.

If I were you, I would have paid 20 dollars to not have to deal with it.

 

When I have less than $100 in my bank account at any given time, yeah, it's worth it.  Especially since all I'm doing is taking a few minutes to send an email.