Your first research?

[umniah2013]

My research experience is very limited so I've been wondering how many feels the same. Was your undergrad thesis the first research you've ever done? When was your "publishable" paper? 

 

Sadly my undergrad school was not research focused so I wanna know what I missed out on. Would you please share your experiences and what do you recommend for someone who has not written any thing longer than 20 pages? 

 

How long did it take you to get to the level where you are confident about the quality of your paper? 

 

 

Basically  what should I do to write a good paper? 

 

I want to be ready for gradschool.

[ginagirl]

I understand your concern, but I don't think grad schools don't expect you to have the "publishing thing" down yet. That is a lot of what grad school will be about- learning how to be a better researcher and how to publish good papers. Assuming you no longer have opportunities to write a publishable paper, reading papers from your field is something you can do now to be ready to tackle that kind of work.

[TakeruK]

I think paper writing is pretty different depending on field. It would be pretty unlikely for junior grad students in the sciences to write a 20+ page paper (in journal format). 

 

My first "real" research experience was the summer after my junior year. My first attempt at a research position was the summer after my sophomore year but most research positions were paid through a university grant for summer undergrad researchers (to encourage profs to hire undergrads) and I wasn't competitive enough for it that year so I volunteered a few hours over the summer to get used to some research level computations. 

 

I was in a "co-operative work program" for my University, which required 16-20 months of full time work in your field along with your coursework, so co-op students take 5 years to finish (4 years of classes, and 1 full year plus extra summers for research). I joined late so I just did 16 months straight between the end of my junior year and the start of my senior year. 

 

My first project was 8 months long and I did work that resulted in several publications, but I didn't actually write any of them. Most of the work was published after I had left but they used my computations. My second project was also 8 months long and resulted in one publication, but as above, I did not write it myself either. Thus, none of these papers were first authored papers. My third project in undergrad was my senior/honours thesis, and I spent the whole senior year on it, but only part time. In comparison to the previous experience, my undergrad thesis was much lighter because I had a lot less time to work on it. So, by the time I graduated, it was not "publishable" yet. Luckily, a graduate student took over my project and they published a paper out of it (with me as a coauthor). However this did not actually happen until over a year after I graduated. It did get submitted in time to be included in my PhD applications though (but not my MSc applications of course). 

 

I don't know if this is a difference in fields, but to me, I've seen writing papers as a thing that naturally comes out of doing good research. That is, whether or not a paper is published in science has less to do with "how well the student writes paper" but much more to do with "how good/interesting is the science?". Obviously, if the student cannot write/communicate at all, then the referees won't know what to do with the paper! But, in my field, the early years of grad school is where students are expected to write their first first-author papers and we get a lot of coaching and mentorship from our supervisors. 

 

So, in my opinion, the first step towards getting papers published is doing the research well. The writing part comes later. But again, this is from the perspective of a physical science graduate student!

[Monochrome Spring]

My first research experiences were more exploratory than anything else. I worked in a plant ecology lab, essentially watering and weighing the samples. And then I worked in a plant cell wall lab, where I ran PCR and gels. Those were very low-level positions and were for me to discover what research I was interested in pursuing later at a higher level.

 

After that, beginning of my 2nd year, I started my first 'real' research experience. I started working on a publishable project in that lab toward the end of my 2nd year, and I'll finish the manuscript for publication at the end of my 3rd year/graduation. As for the writing on this project, I have a document with paragraphs of ideas, but my PI will integrate those as she sees fit and do the majority of the writing/formatting.

 

My actual undergraduate thesis is not publishable, though it is higher level field work. The research is simply not novel enough to be worth publishing.

 

I don't think anyone expects you to be great at writing papers, when you're just leaving undergrad. And I agree with TakeruK that you should focus on the research, because it will help drive writing the paper. To prepare for grad school, my biggest piece of advice would be to read as many papers as possible, in different major journals in your field. Get an idea of how things are worded and formatted, and try to implement that in your own writing when you get to that point in your research.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Monochrome Spring

[danieleWrites]

My first real research paper experience was my sophomore-ish (don't ask) year of undergrad. Did the full she-bang in a research methods course. Then I did another major research project the semester I graduated. Capstone project! I've spent the last few years trying to de-program sociology writing techniques out of my brain and re-programming it with literary research writing.

Here's a truism: you learn to write the same way you learned to speak. With speaking, you developed your finesse with grammar and your strength with vocabulary by listening to people around you and speaking to them over the course of years. Writers learn the vocabulary, grammar, and how to finesse their writing by reading a lot of stuff in their particular discourse community, and doing a lot of writing.

So. Crack open scholarly articles in your field and start reading. As far as research methodologies go, you should have some courses in your program, and if you have deficiencies due to your undergraduate program, most graduate programs will allow you to take an undergraduate course or two to make up for what you missed. That means talk to you adviser/DGS. And it also means breathe!

[umniah2013]

I understand your concern, but I don't think grad schools don't expect you to have the "publishing thing" down yet. That is a lot of what grad school will be about- learning how to be a better researcher and how to publish good papers. Assuming you no longer have opportunities to write a publishable paper, reading papers from your field is something you can do now to be ready to tackle that kind of work.

Thank you ginagirl for the reply...It is just that when I browse some C.Vs of graduate students, I see some papers published or on the way to be published. That's why I wanted to know the things that I needed to work on in terms of what's expected from as a grad student. 

[umniah2013]

I think paper writing is pretty different depending on field. It would be pretty unlikely for junior grad students in the sciences to write a 20+ page paper (in journal format). 

 

My first "real" research experience was the summer after my junior year. My first attempt at a research position was the summer after my sophomore year but most research positions were paid through a university grant for summer undergrad researchers (to encourage profs to hire undergrads) and I wasn't competitive enough for it that year so I volunteered a few hours over the summer to get used to some research level computations. 

 

I was in a "co-operative work program" for my University, which required 16-20 months of full time work in your field along with your coursework, so co-op students take 5 years to finish (4 years of classes, and 1 full year plus extra summers for research). I joined late so I just did 16 months straight between the end of my junior year and the start of my senior year. 

 

My first project was 8 months long and I did work that resulted in several publications, but I didn't actually write any of them. Most of the work was published after I had left but they used my computations. My second project was also 8 months long and resulted in one publication, but as above, I did not write it myself either. Thus, none of these papers were first authored papers. My third project in undergrad was my senior/honours thesis, and I spent the whole senior year on it, but only part time. In comparison to the previous experience, my undergrad thesis was much lighter because I had a lot less time to work on it. So, by the time I graduated, it was not "publishable" yet. Luckily, a graduate student took over my project and they published a paper out of it (with me as a coauthor). However this did not actually happen until over a year after I graduated. It did get submitted in time to be included in my PhD applications though (but not my MSc applications of course). 

 

I don't know if this is a difference in fields, but to me, I've seen writing papers as a thing that naturally comes out of doing good research. That is, whether or not a paper is published in science has less to do with "how well the student writes paper" but much more to do with "how good/interesting is the science?". Obviously, if the student cannot write/communicate at all, then the referees won't know what to do with the paper! But, in my field, the early years of grad school is where students are expected to write their first first-author papers and we get a lot of coaching and mentorship from our supervisors. 

 

So, in my opinion, the first step towards getting papers published is doing the research well. The writing part comes later. But again, this is from the perspective of a physical science graduate student!

I agree and it's kinda the same in my field i.e. the issues discussed in the paper is more valued than the technicalities of writing. 

 

You were fortunate to have participated in several research projects as an undergrad.I think that  type of experience is necessary for the success of grad students. Uh I'm so mad at my school >_<  Although , I have to admit my school is currently providing more research opportunities than when I was attending.  

 

 

Any way, thank you for the great input!

[umniah2013]

My first research experiences were more exploratory than anything else. I worked in a plant ecology lab, essentially watering and weighing the samples. And then I worked in a plant cell wall lab, where I ran PCR and gels. Those were very low-level positions and were for me to discover what research I was interested in pursuing later at a higher level.

 

After that, beginning of my 2nd year, I started my first 'real' research experience. I started working on a publishable project in that lab toward the end of my 2nd year, and I'll finish the manuscript for publication at the end of my 3rd year/graduation. As for the writing on this project, I have a document with paragraphs of ideas, but my PI will integrate those as she sees fit and do the majority of the writing/formatting.

 

My actual undergraduate thesis is not publishable, though it is higher level field work. The research is simple not novel enough to be worth publishing.

 

I don't think anyone expects you to be great at writing papers, when you're just leaving undergrad. And I agree with TakeruK that you should focus on the research, because it will help drive writing the paper. To prepare for grad school, my biggest piece of advice would be to read as many papers as possible, in different major journals in your field. Get an idea of how things are worded and formatted, and try to implement that in your own writing when you get to that point in your research.

I have read some research papers but I think to read even more especially the current issues in my field. I'm thinking I should also subscribe in some academic journals to keep up with the research. 

 

Thank you for your great advice. I appreciate it! 

[umniah2013]

My first real research paper experience was my sophomore-ish (don't ask) year of undergrad. Did the full she-bang in a research methods course. Then I did another major research project the semester I graduated. Capstone project! I've spent the last few years trying to de-program sociology writing techniques out of my brain and re-programming it with literary research writing.

Here's a truism: you learn to write the same way you learned to speak. With speaking, you developed your finesse with grammar and your strength with vocabulary by listening to people around you and speaking to them over the course of years. Writers learn the vocabulary, grammar, and how to finesse their writing by reading a lot of stuff in their particular discourse community, and doing a lot of writing.

So. Crack open scholarly articles in your field and start reading. As far as research methodologies go, you should have some courses in your program, and if you have deficiencies due to your undergraduate program, most graduate programs will allow you to take an undergraduate course or two to make up for what you missed. That means talk to you adviser/DGS. And it also means breathe!

Wow so you can take a research methods course as  a sophomore? In my school , they just added the course recently and it's almost exclusive to only seniors.  

 

"And it also means breathe! "   hahaha  I know I'm worrywart I can't help it >_< 

 

I haven't thought of taking some undergrad courses ,but it certainly would help tremendously.This is definitely something I'll consider when I start my program. 

 

Thank you so much for the informative reply. 

[Tall Chai Latte]

I'm a fourth year PhD student now. Looking back on my undergrad research experiment and my own PhD progression, I'd say having undergraduate research experience doesn't necessarily prepare you well for grad school. Unless you plan on staying in the same area for grad school (the already existing technical knowledge will help you a bit), the experience itself can only serve as a "feeler" and see whether you like academic research at all. The scene can be very different once you hop over to the other side.

 

My first research experience was back in my sophomore year, where I worked part-time in a betta fish behavior lab. Unfortunately the lab was closing down due to funding crisis, so I did nothing more than feeding fish and cleaning tanks. In my junior year, I switched over to a biochemistry/biophysics lab studying protein structure; I consider this as my first serious research experience, where I was given different projects to work on. I stayed there until I graduated from college (3 years total), finished most of my projects, though the paper wasn't published until I was well into the third year of PhD program.

 

For the concerns you have, I would recommend you read primary research papers and see how they write them. How to read fast and write well is one of the things they teach you in grad school, so don't worry you will definitely learn it there! Is there a major tier-1 academic institute near by for you to get some additional research experience? The experience, as well as the potential recommendation letters, will be key to your graduate school applications.  

[themmases]

At my undergrad, history students had two required research courses: a 200-level one and a 400-level one (in a department where grad students take mostly 500-level with some 400). Both were topics courses, and my 200-level course turned out to be more influential for me but both were great experiences. Most 400-level classes in my department also required a research paper, so in the end I wrote several and loved it. I still remember feeling acute boredom as I walked home from turning the last one in.

 

The research is the most time-consuming part, but it's hard to say if it's the most difficult because I think it's also the most interesting and fun. In the humanities, I found organizing to be the most difficult thing. I'd often feel that the concepts I wanted to talk about were connected in a web, not a chain, and struggle to decide how to force them into order. I'd really recommend reading articles for structure and organization specifically in those fields.

 

In the sciences and social sciences, there's more of a prescribed structure which is nice. My first experience with that was as an undergrad research assistant in health literacy (the department was actually aviation/human factors). My awesome PI was nice enough to let me sit in on the meetings where they discussed the results but quite rightly didn't let me anywhere near the paper. But it qualified me for my job, where I learned by observing and being corrected like in anything else.

 

Especially for science/social science preparation, I would recommend looking at review articles and responses to papers in addition to the papers themselves, to get an idea of what others in the field respond to or see as strengths/weaknesses in a study. When I was new to reading these studies I would just think "oh how interesting, good job."

[PhDerp]

I didn't know what research was until about a year ago. I applied to a few REUs and decided to attend the one at my school so I could continue into the fall.

 

The "research" I did (and am still doing) is just coding new features into someone else's software. I don't actually like it that much. But I don't think this is what grad school is going to be like, and am excited about the idea of trying actual research!

 

I hope I really do like it. If not, I'll just leave with my master's in a few years.

 

 

EDIT: And before anyone asks, I have no idea how I got into such a great PhD program, either. But let's not look a gift horse in the mouth! XD

Edited March 11, 2014 by PhDerp

[victorydance]

My first real research experience was working as an RA over the summer for one of my professors. Mostly collected literature and compiled data sets. One of my data sets made it onto his paper.

 

I then used those skills to make my own data set for my honours thesis. I used it as an indicator for one of my variables.

 

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A common misconception about writing 'good' papers is they need to be stylish or ground-breaking in some way. They don't.

 

Writing a good paper to me is knowing how the mechanics of research works, but this depends on the field.

 

You have to have an argument. But that argument needs to be hashed out so that your dependent and independent variable(s) are clearly linked and drawn out. In other words, your argument isn't just "this is what I am arguing" but rather "X and Y influence Z". Then you make an assumption.  

 

Once you have that, then you need to show how they are related to each other. Why are they related? What is the theory behind why you think your dependent variables influence your independent variable? Is it logically consistent?

 

Then you need to have a method of measurement. Whether this is qualy or quanty there needs to be some form of indicators that show how your variables change or stay the same. 

 

Then you go about measuring your variables. Is your hypothesis correct in reality? If not, then you start again and revise.

 

Basically, if your hypothesis is backed up by the data...THEN you write your paper. Most papers will follow a general formula:

 

Intro - contextualization, why is your question important.

the literature - what have others done in this topic? what other theories are out there?

hypothesis - what is your argument?

research design - how are you going to prove your theory? What methods are you going to use?

theory - why do you think your argument happens this way?

body - detailing the substantive basis behind your theory, providing evidence to support your theory from your data or empirical basis

discussion - concluding your paper and suggesting shortcomings, significance, future research or questions, applicability to other cases (generalizability), ect.

 

-------

 

I didn't learn how to do this kind of thing until my junior and senior years. But this is the basic formula for writing a good paper. Your typical basic argument and finding literature to support it 15 page paper is not actual research. 

Edited April 2, 2014 by HopefulComparativist

[victorydance]

Also, one of the best ways to learn how to write good papers is to practice making research designs. There are templates out there and you follow the basic steps according to your question(s). Once you establish a solid research design, then you carry out the project. Everything in your paper or research project will stem from this. 

[Arcadian]

My history...

 

-No publications in undergrad

-4th author on a paper in 1st year grad

-6th author in 2nd year

-3rd author in 3rd year

-Almost done with 3rd year, starting to write a paper as 1st author (who knows how long that'll take)

Edited April 3, 2014 by Arcadian