Teaching at a top 25 school

[dgswaim]

I know many, many, many people teaching in tenure track positions who received their PhDs from non-Leiter universities. They might not be teaching at the University of Super Important Research Stuff, but they are teaching philosophy and collecting a paycheck to talk about philosophy with students and other philosophers. 

[wandajune]

The tenured/tenure track professors at my undergrad got PhD's from unranked/borderline unranked Ph.D programs, if that eases anybody's mind in here.

Edited February 20, 2014 by wandajune

[AquinasDuo]

Realistically, what kinds of schools do you have to get your Phd from to have a realistic chance of eventually teaching at a top-25 school? I'm assuming a school in the top-50? 

 

Almost impossible to say. I did my Undergraduate at the University of Oklahoma (which I think was maybe tied for 50 some years back, and used to be an honourable mention when I was there), and one of our PhD's first job was Tenure Track at Harvard (https://www.fas.harvard.edu/~phildept/jones.html)

[dgswaim]

Almost impossible to say. I did my Undergraduate at the University of Oklahoma (which I think was maybe tied for 50 some years back, and used to be an honourable mention when I was there), and one of our PhD's first job was Tenure Track at Harvard (https://www.fas.harvard.edu/~phildept/jones.html)

So........ can you put in a good word for me with Linda Zagzebski? 

[greencoloredpencil]

For whatever it's worth, I have anecdotal information regarding a school that is fairly close to the bottom for the Leiter's rankings that the majority of their graduates end up in community college positions. 

[Cottagecheeseman]

For whatever it's worth, I have anecdotal information regarding a school that is fairly close to the bottom for the Leiter's rankings that the majority of their graduates end up in community college positions. 

I started my college career at a community college, and had some fantastic teachers. I would be perfectly OK with a 'full-time' position in community college. But not an adjunct. Have you seen what they pay adjuncts anywhere? It's atrocious. Only being able to be an adjunct is what honestly worries me about choosing to go to a top program.

[greencoloredpencil]

I started my college career at a community college, and had some fantastic teachers. I would be perfectly OK with a 'full-time' position in community college. But not an adjunct. Have you seen what they pay adjuncts anywhere? It's atrocious. Only being able to be an adjunct is what honestly worries me about choosing to go to a top program.

 

Personally we have opposite fears. I'd rather be an adjunct at a university (even a non-prestigious university) than work at a community college. Though, your point is well taken when it comes to pay....

My only experience at a community college was taking classes at the local one during summers as a high school student. So, I can't say I have much knowledge of what they're really like. I have known graduate students who were excellent teachers who went on to have community college positions though. I've also heard many good things about community college professors from others I've known who went to a community college. But, what bothers me about teaching at a community college is the thought of only being able to teach introductory courses. Also, I find the idea of publishing and researching to be a lot more appealing than teaching (though I specifically say "the idea of" since I don't have any real experience of what either teaching or publishing research are really like at this point). 

[Cottagecheeseman]

Personally we have opposite fears. I'd rather be an adjunct at a university (even a non-prestigious university) than work at a community college. Though, your point is well taken when it comes to pay....

My only experience at a community college was taking classes at the local one during summers as a high school student. So, I can't say I have much knowledge of what they're really like. I have known graduate students who were excellent teachers who went on to have community college positions though. I've also heard many good things about community college professors from others I've known who went to a community college. But, what bothers me about teaching at a community college is the thought of only being able to teach introductory courses. Also, I find the idea of publishing and researching to be a lot more appealing than teaching (though I specifically say "the idea of" since I don't have any real experience of what either teaching or publishing research are really like at this point). 

It should be noted that adjuncts typically only teach introductory classes as well, and the adjuncts I know have to teach so many classes just to not fall into extreme poverty that they don't have time for research. But I understand your fears. I mean, it just happens that most of the people on this forum and in graduate school right now won't end up in research oriented positions, if only because these positions are the most coveted and more rare that teaching-oriented positions. I'm just trying to be realistic, and though a research position is what I want, like you and probably most people here, it's probably not what I'll get, and I'm okay with that.

[greencoloredpencil]

It should be noted that adjuncts typically only teach introductory classes as well, and the adjuncts I know have to teach so many classes just to not fall into extreme poverty that they don't have time for research. But I understand your fears. I mean, it just happens that most of the people on this forum and in graduate school right now won't end up in research oriented positions, if only because these positions are the most coveted and more rare that teaching-oriented positions. I'm just trying to be realistic, and though a research position is what I want, like you and probably most people here, it's probably not what I'll get, and I'm okay with that.

 

I've had experience with two universities and both have had adjuncts who taught upper division classes. How common this is, I don't know. I do know you're right about everything you said regarding research positions, but for me, even if a research position is unattainable I want to at least be in a teaching position that allows me to teach advanced courses. 

[AcademicX]

It should be noted that adjuncts typically only teach introductory classes as well, and the adjuncts I know have to teach so many classes just to not fall into extreme poverty that they don't have time for research. But I understand your fears. I mean, it just happens that most of the people on this forum and in graduate school right now won't end up in research oriented positions, if only because these positions are the most coveted and more rare that teaching-oriented positions. I'm just trying to be realistic, and though a research position is what I want, like you and probably most people here, it's probably not what I'll get, and I'm okay with that.

 It might be because I come from a liberal arts college, but I would love to get a teaching position at one of those institutions. At research universities you always have the pressure to publish like crazy (if you don't publish x amounts of books and y amounts of articles you are denied tenure), whereas at liberal arts colleges you just need to publish a couple of articles in well-regarded journals and be good at teaching. You can still get to discuss cool stuff at upper-level classes. Again, that is my dream. But, like zizesucks says, it's probably more realistic to assume that I'll end up somewhere else.

[Cottagecheeseman]

 It might be because I come from a liberal arts college, but I would love to get a teaching position at one of those institutions. At research universities you always have the pressure to publish like crazy (if you don't publish x amounts of books and y amounts of articles you are denied tenure), whereas at liberal arts colleges you just need to publish a couple of articles in well-regarded journals and be good at teaching. You can still get to discuss cool stuff at upper-level classes. Again, that is my dream. But, like zizesucks says, it's probably more realistic to assume that I'll end up somewhere else.

I think teaching at a small liberal arts college is a respectable goal going to the kind of places you are accepted! But I don't know those schools well, I just know they are respectable places for certain kinds of philosophy.

As for Table's thoughts that adjuncts teach upper level, at my university, they rarely did, and if they did it was only because no full-time faculty could teach it at the time. That being said, its probably more likely for adjuncts to teach lower level classes than not.

[TheVineyard]

Zizek is there a reason you made your acceptance row yellow and waitlist column green?

Also, I would love to teach at a liberal arts college. I wanted to become a philosophy professor for the teaching, not the publishing.

[DHumeDominates]

Zizek is there a reason you made your acceptance row yellow and waitlist column green?

Also, I would love to teach at a liberal arts college. I wanted to become a philosophy professor for the teaching, not the publishing.

 

While I want to publish more than I want to teach, I think (hope) I would love teaching.

[Cottagecheeseman]

Zizek is there a reason you made your acceptance row yellow and waitlist column green?

Also, I would love to teach at a liberal arts college. I wanted to become a philosophy professor for the teaching, not the publishing.

I trying more for "Gold" for acceptances because culturally gold means you won something.

Edited February 22, 2014 by zizeksucks

[Establishment]

One thing I've found at my MA program, is that teaching is fun, reinvigorating, and something I'm somewhat competent at if my student reviews mean anything.

 

Actually doing philosophy on the other hand, is stressful, tiring, and something I seem incompetent at.

 

Which... is probably for the best given the availability of teaching positions compared to research positions.

[Cottagecheeseman]

I know in my department we have some adjuncts that regularly teach upper division as well, but it's clear why: some of our adjuncts have abnormal expertise in one field or other of philosophy that none of the tenure-track professors do and they just are better teachers for that course, even though it's upper division. It's a little funny if you look at how few intro courses they teach next to the tenure-track professor we have, say from Oxford, who teaches a lot of them because they frankly have no experience or expertise in the subjects we need. So there's another question to ask yourself- are you just a well-educated person that got into a good PhD that might get a job and end up teaching a bunch of intro courses because you aren't better at any special topics than the adjuncts that live in the area. Super lame issue to worry about, but it's what I've observed. Also what bothers me about it is why they even bothered to hire dude X from Oxford if they couldn't use dude X to teach anything special; they might as well have promoted one of their more valuable adjuncts who they know are important to their department offerings. I guess not everyone in charge of hiring new professors makes wise decisions.

This does sound like someone did a bad job hiring people. You're supposed to hire people in the areas you need people to teach classes in!

[perpetuavix]

I know in my department we have some adjuncts that regularly teach upper division as well, but it's clear why: some of our adjuncts have abnormal expertise in one field or other of philosophy that none of the tenure-track professors do and they just are better teachers for that course, even though it's upper division. It's a little funny if you look at how few intro courses they teach next to the tenure-track professor we have, say from Oxford, who teaches a lot of them because they frankly have no experience or expertise in the subjects we need. So there's another question to ask yourself- are you just a well-educated person that got into a good PhD that might get a job and end up teaching a bunch of intro courses because you aren't better at any special topics than the adjuncts that live in the area. Super lame issue to worry about, but it's what I've observed. Also what bothers me about it is why they even bothered to hire dude X from Oxford if they couldn't use dude X to teach anything special; they might as well have promoted one of their more valuable adjuncts who they know are important to their department offerings. I guess not everyone in charge of hiring new professors makes wise decisions.

 

What kind of areas are the adjuncts teaching classes in?