logos0516 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Realistically, what kinds of schools do you have to get your Phd from to have a realistic chance of eventually teaching at a top-25 school? I'm assuming a school in the top-50? Guyau, andrewcycs, Cottagecheeseman and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectivityofcontradiction Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Stop wasting our time. You have done nothing to show any member of this forum that you are legitimately interested in graduate studies in philosophy and so your seemingly genuine questions do not warrant our time. Moreover, it is obvious to me that clogging up the space of this thread is some sort of game for you, given that so so many of the questions you ask have been addressed countless times elsewhere. And your target questions, like the one here, are all questions that any serious candidate would never bother asking. The question being raised here has a very self-evident answer, namely, that, in most circumstances, top 25 departments hire from top 25 departments. Aside from exceptional cases when the candidates publishing record is excellent. Given that you 'wrote a book' maybe you should skip the PhD. and just apply for Professor gigs straight away, eh? So, I say again, stop wasting our time. Edited February 18, 2014 by objectivityofcontradiction Philhopeful, objectivityofcontradiction, bar_scene_gambler and 11 others 8 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophe Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 why are you starting all the threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logos0516 Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 You dont have to read my posts. If you have nothing relevant or constructive to say, then move on to something else. wakeupright 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ungerdrag Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 People have made it to the top with degrees from lower-ranked schools—take John Hawthorne and Ted Sider, for instance. But they're not the norm. They rise through the ranks by writing extremely influential stuff. Unless you're one of the top two or three philosophers of your generation, you're not going to have much of a shot at a top school unless you go to one, but even then there's no guarantee. In general, you're going to end up teaching somewhere ranked way lower than the school where you get your PhD. You might rise up later, but that's going to depend on your work, not your pedigree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burroughs Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 A realistic chance? I'd doubt that top-50, or even top-25, is sufficient for a realistic chance. There are, of course, philosophers who teach at top-25 universities who attended (say) a top-50 university, or a top-100 university, or an unranked university. Their chances, though, probably weren't realistic. I'd say that top-50 leaves it within the realm of distant possibility, but I'm not sure how many graduate students attending those universities would be advised that their chances of ending up at a top-25 university were 'realistic'. I'd hazard that most would be told that it would be optimistic, the sort of thing at which one aims without being under the impression that one has much chance. Suppose that you get 5 new graduate students a year at each top-25 university. Now, some of these will drop out, and others will prove to be weaker philosophers than their application & earlier performance had led admission committees to believe. Nevertheless, there would still be enough graduates to populate the top-25 universities, and then many left over. Of course, this isn't entirely straightforward. Some departments will place especially well, others will put out graduates in necessary but underpopulated areas, and some highly-ranked departments will place poorly. Still, I think it should be clear that even the average graduate of a top-25 university would be optimistic in hoping for such a position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logos0516 Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yeah I would imagine a lot of it depends on what type of research you've done and how influential it has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logos0516 Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Top-25 schools get top-25 Phd graduates, after (a) establishing a sufficient research and publications, ( going through the often-times necessary teaching as lesser-ranked schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnothi_Seauton Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 The best place to look is on the faculty pages of the top 25 departments. I wouldn't look at the Ph.D institution of older professors. I would focus on where the assistant and young associate professors got their Ph.Ds. I would bet that places like Harvard, Princeton, NYU, and Rutgers are strongly represented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottagecheeseman Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Man we need a rule about how many threads you can start. ungerdrag, philosophe, greencoloredpencil and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophe Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Man we need a rule about how many threads you can start. This guy. Amirite? andrewcycs and ungerdrag 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burroughs Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Top-25 schools get top-25 Phd graduates, after (a) establishing a sufficient research and publications, ( going through the often-times necessary teaching as lesser-ranked schools. So, suppose that I'm generous. I grant that you're asking these questions because you're somewhat concerned about your future chances in philosophy. Now, your remark isn't an insight. This is the sort of thing that a modicum of critical thought & a brief survey of top-25 faculties could generate. So, given that this isn't a question that requires any formidable intellect, and given that it's been written about many times before, it would seem that your question was not the sort of thing that needed asking. Given that other questions that you've asked are similar to this, and given that we want to be generous, we might conclude that you're not especially good at asking questions, or that you ask them too rashly. So, let's grant this (and not a broader stupidity, or malice). The conclusion is that you are a defective questioner, and, as such, it might be worth developing that skill, and asking fewer questions with more prudence & tact. So, do that. Edited February 18, 2014 by burroughs philophilosopher, objectivityofcontradiction, andrewcycs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deverettf Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Man we need a rule about how many threads you can start. I have charitably concluded that lamparem is engaging in some sort of performance art, and I'd hate to restrict artistic expression. Why do you hate freedom, zizeksucks? logos0516, murial and Mavngoose1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba felt Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Omg it's Shia Labeouf doing another "I'm not famous" performance art Edit_Undo, andrewcycs and logos0516 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxhgns Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Given the state of the job market, few of you (us) will ever get a TT job in philosophy, let alone one at an institution from the top half of the Leiter rankings. The market is rough even for graduates of top schools. Remember, every school (including the top ones) graduates one or more students every year. Not every school has one or more new openings every year. You're not going to get a T25 job in philosophy. You probably won't even get a TT job in philosophy. Best get used to it now, and hope to be surprised later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHumeDominates Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Given the state of the job market, few of you (us) will ever get a TT job in philosophy, let alone one at an institution from the top half of the Leiter rankings. The market is rough even for graduates of top schools. Remember, every school (including the top ones) graduates one or more students every year. Not every school has one or more new openings every year. You're not going to get a T25 job in philosophy. You probably won't even get a TT job in philosophy. Best get used to it now, and hope to be surprised later. This is basically right. If you peruse the placement records of some top-25 programs, the vast majority of PhDs place at schools that do not make the PGR. Indeed, many, perhaps still the vast majority, place at schools that do not have graduate programs in philosophy. Bottom line: Even if you get into NYU or Oxford, don't assume you'll get hired at a top-25 or even a top-50 school. In fact, you may not even get a research position or, as maxhgns notes, a TT job. Edited February 19, 2014 by DHumeDominates ungerdrag 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgswaim Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Given the state of the job market, few of you (us) will ever get a TT job in philosophy, let alone one at an institution from the top half of the Leiter rankings. The market is rough even for graduates of top schools. Remember, every school (including the top ones) graduates one or more students every year. Not every school has one or more new openings every year. You're not going to get a T25 job in philosophy. You probably won't even get a TT job in philosophy. Best get used to it now, and hope to be surprised later. This almost certainly overstates the case. humean_skeptic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophist Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 My school barely grazes the leiter report rankings, and yet it (pretty much) only hires people from top 10 schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxhgns Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 This almost certainly overstates the case. It's best to go in prepared to get out, or to prepare for getting out while you're in. You don't want to be caught with your pants down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kant_get_in Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 My school barely grazes the leiter report rankings, and yet it (pretty much) only hires people from top 10 schools. I went to a fairly small liberal arts college. I remember thinking how great it was that all of the new hires at the school (not just in the philosophy program) came from Harvard, Columbia, or other top universities. The thought just depresses me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcademicX Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I went to a fairly small liberal arts college. I remember thinking how great it was that all of the new hires at the school (not just in the philosophy program) came from Harvard, Columbia, or other top universities. The thought just depresses me now. Same here. The philosophy department at my college just went through a very long hiring process to replace a professor who is retiring next year. A member of the faculty told me that they had around 500 applications!! In the end, the three people that made it to the end and who were able to visit campus to give a talk were all from top programs and had already been teaching for 5+ years. There was a guy who had published several articles and books and didn't even have a tenure-track job. Academia is a scary prospect, but I am still willing to take the risk if I can do what I love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar_scene_gambler Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 It's not all bad. My university, which is a Top 40 school US News (though unranked in philosophy) just allowed for two new hires in the philosophy dept (both in metaphysics generally, but with other AOI's). One came from University of Melbourne and the other came out of Boston University, yet they're on tenure-track, plus the university pays really well. So it's not all bad news. Competition is stiff, but if you know your stuff then you have a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcademicX Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 It's not all bad. My university, which is a Top 40 school US News (though unranked in philosophy) just allowed for two new hires in the philosophy dept (both in metaphysics generally, but with other AOI's). One came from University of Melbourne and the other came out of Boston University, yet they're on tenure-track, plus the university pays really well. So it's not all bad news. Competition is stiff, but if you know your stuff then you have a shot. It's good to hear positive stories about the job market. I know this doesn't go precisely with the original title of the post, but I am even more concerned about the job market because I am planning to study Continental philosophy. As most of us know, there are only a bunch of schools in the U.S that specialize in Continental philosophy (so there are not very many positions available in the field). Looking at the placement records of some of the top continental programs is a little scary because only a few people end up teaching at top universities or good liberal arts colleges. Perhaps, having an AOI or AOS in the history of philosophy (generally better-regarded at Leiter-ranked programs) would help in my job prospects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar_scene_gambler Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 It's good to hear positive stories about the job market. I know this doesn't go precisely with the original title of the post, but I am even more concerned about the job market because I am planning to study Continental philosophy. As most of us know, there are only a bunch of schools in the U.S that specialize in Continental philosophy (so there are not very many positions available in the field). Looking at the placement records of some of the top continental programs is a little scary because only a few people end up teaching at top universities or good liberal arts colleges. Perhaps, having an AOI or AOS in the history of philosophy (generally better-regarded at Leiter-ranked programs) would help in my job prospects? I know your pain. I'm sure that having an AOS in the history of philosophy is more beneficial than continental philosophy (I'd like to think so anyways, given that it's my AOI), but I'm not really sure how much it might help job prospects. It's a nightmare out there for everyone, and my ear isn't to the ground enough to talk about it with any sense of certainty. Best thing you can do is do your thing and do it well as far as I can tell. Congrats on the Emory acceptance by the way, I'm totally jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcademicX Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thank you. Good luck with all your other applications! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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