Lord of the Flies online

[PhD applicant]

Just some general stories for time wasting conversation; I have noticed this phenomenon in many online settings.

 

Yesterday I was wasting some of my life playing an online game and the inevitable 'ugly' came out from a few players who had decided they owned a portion of the gaming world. They began with snide remarks that others should leave their turf, required turf to complete a quest, which meant the players who leave would have to give up on their quest. So no one left. Then the player snobs started mocking the 'noobs' who wouldn't leave. Then if anyone asked them what the problem was they would gang up and find ways to hurl insults past the filters. Any comments I made about playing nice were met with even worse responses by even their victims, who ganged up on me in order not to be singled out as victims. It was all very annoying, but I've seen it before. What I find most shocking is that I know these people would never act like this if they were in person around people who they considered respectable. The internet sometimes affords people the anonimity to become the repugnant douche-bag they always dreamt of.

 

Many years ago I had an addiction to message boards and would spend hours and hours on up to ten boards at a time holding a couple dozen simultaneous discussions. (A bad addiction I'm glad I got over.) I came across a lot of similar random beligerent gang attack/cyber bullying/status attempts in those forums as well, especially amongst the regulars. Again, I am fairly certain they don't do these things in public because they were generally excellent writers and seemed well educated, but still took advantage of the odd opportunities that sometimes arose to gang attack anyone who didn't quite fit in (or the occasional newb), thereby achieving even greater status and forming bonds amongst themselves in the process. Good for them, I think. At least they know what makes them feel good.

 

Sometimes I wonder if these people even remember doing these things. It's clear that they aren't thinking of the people on the other end of their insults, so there is an obvious lack of compassion or concern. On the other hand, there are occasional persons who get so out of hand it almost seems necessary to haze them... But I don't know if, even in those cases, I would consider it acceptable. Recently I read a thread on this forum that appeared to be a legitimate question but the very first reply (from a frequent poster) was so volatile and beligerent I couldn't understand what on earth was happening.

 

In efforts to clear the air and provide a forum for directed hate venting and leaving that crap out of other threads, I humbly invite you all to dispense it here, if you feel so badly the need to clear your bowels. Or, possibly, rationally discuss the topic here, if you like. Either way, I will quietly watch what happens with interest.

[bar_scene_gambler]

My thoughts towards the end: "Is this about me? I don't think it is. I was just expressing anger over childish bickering. I really don't have an opinion on the matter at hand". At any rate, to those who have been here for long enough to be familiar with the various ups and down that have occurred here over the last few months, sorry for my irritation, regardless of whether or not an apology is warranted.

It's a decent idea, but I doubt anyone would be willing to just spill their guts. I would encourage people to stop hijacking other threads though. It does make the experience here somewhat less worthwhile. 

[saltome]

Yesterday I was wasting some of my life playing an online game

Which mmo, if you don't mind saying? I am currently loving SWTOR, and have played many since EQ. I have noticed a downward spiral in the social norms and etiquette of mmos from eq to current mmos, and also (like yourself) have mused over possible reasons / general changes in societal interaction based on varying degrees of public/private/anonymity.

I am a lurker on the philosophy forum. My area is East Asian Studies. But I always come here to read the threads simply because the "elitism" being thrown around is entertaining. Trolls abound, and feeders of the trolls are plentiful, which makes for very good time-killing while I nurse my morning coffee. Most of the other disciplines forums are dull to read through -- supportive, interested, and embracing of the community.

I guess if it all gets rolled into one thread, I won't have to search as much to find the good stuff, but that's half the fun...

[Cottagecheeseman]

Which mmo, if you don't mind saying? I am currently loving SWTOR, and have played many since EQ. I have noticed a downward spiral in the social norms and etiquette of mmos from eq to current mmos, and also (like yourself) have mused over possible reasons / general changes in societal interaction based on varying degrees of public/private/anonymity.

I am a lurker on the philosophy forum. My area is East Asian Studies. But I always come here to read the threads simply because the "elitism" being thrown around is entertaining. Trolls abound, and feeders of the trolls are plentiful, which makes for very good time-killing while I nurse my morning coffee. Most of the other disciplines forums are dull to read through -- supportive, interested, and embracing of the community.

I guess if it all gets rolled into one thread, I won't have to search as much to find the good stuff, but that's half the fun...

I feel like it's like watching an accident. You want to pull away but you can't stop watching. At least that's how I feel about it. 

[Table]

Branching from try out this take arguments out of original threads thing: 

 

This seems like a thread where people who have gotten accepted to multiple schools can brag about how "tough it must be" to choose between them. Woe is me! As much as I'd like to join in the fun and namedrop my schools, this thread will help nobody, and will instead make those who haven't been accepted feel bad.

TL;DR: No need for the humblebrag.

 

This thread cannot possibly be helpful to anyone, but will just serve as another circlejerk for those of us lucky enough to have multiple acceptances under the belt. As much as I love circlejerks...I just can't see this being helpful, but I can see it being harmful.

 

When I see something potentially harmful to applicants already in a rut, and at the same time the thing offers nothing helpful, I feel obligated to say something about it. 

This is bizarre. We have a thread that's dedicated to announcing our acceptances. I don't know how that would actually be helpful to anyone, and it can obviously be upsetting. But discussing things to consider when looking at different departments is too smug and potentially harmful? 

 

You obviously know the various sorts of considerations that people make when they choose a school (you listed them), so figure out for yourself how they work. 

 

Here's what might be helpful: A list of possible considerations that people might make.

Uh, ok. 

[Cottagecheeseman]

Branching from try out this take arguments out of original threads thing: 

 

 

 

This is bizarre. We have a thread that's dedicated to announcing our acceptances. I don't know how that would actually be helpful to anyone, and it can obviously be upsetting. But discussing things to consider when looking at different departments is too smug and potentially harmful? 

 

 

 

 

Uh, ok. 

 

woah what did I miss

[TheVineyard]

Branching from try out this take arguments out of original threads thing: 

 

 

 

This is bizarre. We have a thread that's dedicated to announcing our acceptances. I don't know how that would actually be helpful to anyone, and it can obviously be upsetting. But discussing things to consider when looking at different departments is too smug and potentially harmful? 

 

 

 

 

Uh, ok. 

You actually don't understand how a thread for telling others when decisions have been released might be helpful to other applicants hoping to hear back from those programs? You don't understand how saying, "Hey, I checked the website, decisions for XU are up!" might be helpful for an applicant that needs to make a decision? That's incredible. I wonder how you ended up here!

[Establishment]

You actually don't understand how a thread for telling others when decisions have been released might be helpful to other applicants hoping to hear back from those programs? You don't understand how saying, "Hey, I checked the website, decisions for XU are up!" might be helpful for an applicant that needs to make a decision? That's incredible. I wonder how you ended up here!

 

He was being sarcastic in order to make a point. WOOSH.

[TheVineyard]

He was being sarcastic in order to make a point. WOOSH.

 

I actually don't think he was being sarcastic. If he was, what was the point?

[Establishment]

I actually don't think he was being sarcastic. If he was, what was the point?

 

He was saying that we have an acceptance thread which has the great potential to harm person's feelings when they see how well other people are doing and how unwell they themselves are doing. He was saying that surely if this thread still finds a way to be of use to applicants (which it does), then surely a thread for people to discuss the various considerations there are to make when deciding on a program should useful as well. The latter actually serves a unique purpose, whereas the former isn't as necessary since acceptances/rejections will come through either way to the applicant, or can be found on the gradcafe result page.

 

Are you sure you got into a top-5 program with reading skills like these?

[TheVineyard]

Are you sure you got into a top-5 program with reading skills like these?

 

Do you really want to go there? Before you answer, keep in mind that throughout your mighty education, you must have "learned" that when someone doesn't extract the same detailed (and contentious) implications from a source that you do, they are lacking "reading skills." Maybe the fact that you don't know what a "reading skill" is means that you lack "reading skills?"

It's hard not to be provoked when someone on a philosophy board commits to a bald and personal attack with intent to anger, but I have to keep in mind that not every person is able to discuss ideas reasonably. In short, I can't hold everyone on the internet up to a philosopher's standard.

Edited February 27, 2014 by TheVineyard

[Table]

Like establishment said, my main goal was to show how easily you could make the exact same argument against the acceptance thread.

 

I wasn't actually being sarcastic (though I appreciate the attempt at charity, establishment!). A little hyperbole, sure. But I really do not see how, on the whole, announcing acceptances is genuinely helpful to anyone. I know why we like it (because we are neurotic and obsessed). In the very rare cases where admissions decisions are available on the website, it can help people find out a bit earlier than they otherwise would. It can be somewhat helpful to be able to infer that you were rejected. It also makes people think they were rejected when they weren't. It clearly creates stress. I don't think finding out you were accepted a few days before you otherwise would is an enormous help, and since it seems to be a significant source of stress, it seems unlikely that, on the whole, it's actually helpful. Which is why so many people say to avoid gradcafe...

You don't understand how saying, "Hey, I checked the website, decisions for XU are up!" might be helpful for an applicant that needs to make a decision? 

 

 There is no obligation to make any decisions for a month and a half

 

 

...

[Establishment]

Do you really want to go there? Before you answer, keep in mind that throughout your mighty education, you must have "learned" that when someone doesn't extract the same detailed (and contentious) implications from a source that you do, they are lacking "reading skills."

 

Pretty sure I saw more complicated examples of sarcasm from Jonathan Swift in my public middle school education.

[Establishment]

I wasn't actually being sarcastic (though I appreciate the attempt at charity, establishment!)

 

...

Damn. I failed that test then, and I'm still failing it now.

[Establishment]

Do you really want to go there? Before you answer, keep in mind that throughout your mighty education, you must have "learned" that when someone doesn't extract the same detailed (and contentious) implications from a source that you do, they are lacking "reading skills." Maybe the fact that you don't know what a "reading skill" is means that you lack "reading skills?"

It's hard not to be provoked when someone on a philosophy board commits to a bald and personal attack with intent to anger, but I have to keep in mind that not every person is able to discuss ideas reasonably. In short, I can't hold everyone on the internet up to a philosopher's standard.

 

So rustled.

[TheVineyard]

 

Are you sure you got into a top-5 program with reading skills like these?

 

Pretty sure I saw more complicated examples of sarcasm from Jonathan Swift in my public middle school education.

 

 

I wasn't actually being sarcastic (though I appreciate the attempt at charity, establishment!).

 

 

 

...

 

Damn. I failed that test then, and I'm still failing it now.

 

This sequence is so priceless.

Edited February 27, 2014 by TheVineyard

[PhD applicant]

Of all the concepts I have learned in my philosophy education, nothing has ever been more important to me than the principle of charity. (aside from pure logic/reason...)

I was actually discussing with a course designer earlier today about how to better teach philosophy majors this concept. I prefaced that discussion with the fact that most philosophy majors get their BA with absolutely no notion of it whatsoever. Sure, they can define it up and down and sideways for you, but I'm pretty sure they never once practice it in their personal lives. That was part of the reason I started this thread, so I'm glad you moved some of this here. I think it would also be fitting, given the last dozen posts or so, to engage in a discussion of what constitutes 'philisophical maturity,' with whatever bowel movements must come along with that.

[PRising]

Of all the concepts I have learned in my philosophy education, nothing has ever been more important to me than the principle of charity. (aside from pure logic/reason...)

I was actually discussing with a course designer earlier today about how to better teach philosophy majors this concept. I prefaced that discussion with the fact that most philosophy majors get their BA with absolutely no notion of it whatsoever. Sure, they can define it up and down and sideways for you, but I'm pretty sure they never once practice it in their personal lives. That was part of the reason I started this thread, so I'm glad you moved some of this here. I think it would also be fitting, given the last dozen posts or so, to engage in a discussion of what constitutes 'philisophical maturity,' with whatever bowel movements must come along with that.

Re: principle of charity (understood one way):

http://philosophy.jhu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2013/08/CharitableInterpretSp.pdf

"...Spinoza is such a beast..."

Yes, yes he is. 

 

[PhD applicant]

Re: principle of charity (understood one way):

http://philosophy.jhu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2013/08/CharitableInterpretSp.pdf

"...Spinoza is such a beast..."

Yes, yes he is. 

 

Thanks, I enjoy reading about this problem, even though it annoys me so much.

Yes, there are a few ways to take the principle of charity. I think, like much of philosophy, it also has one application in their papers and another in real life. That may be why most majors don't transfer the understanding the way I'm expecting them to.