I need a reality check here. What are my chances at a terminal MA? What do I need to do?

[mygpasucks]

Here's how I'm looking like right now:

 

Overall GPA 2.929

Major GPA for Upper Division Classes: 3.66

Pedigree: California State University 

 

These look like lackluster stats. I've had a few Ws in my freshman and sophomore years. I want to get into SFSU, CSULA, and SJSU in that order. My chances look low for getting in to these schools, but I have 30 more units to prove myself. It has to be straight As or bust. That is my plan. I have a writing sample that's looking very average at the moment, I had an A in said sample but I know more ways to make it better. I am worried that my writing sample will not suffice; it leans continental and I may want to consider more programs to apply to in the future. Should I prepare a writing sample that caters to the majority of the philosophy academics in the USA?

 

I don't have a specific AOA yet, but I am just an interested student. I do like phil of language, Kant, German Idealism, critical theory, ethics, and metaphysics, but this might change.

 

Let's assume I get straight As, I did not calculate it but my estimate is that my major GPA might look like a 3.7 or a 3.8. Do you think I might get accepted to these terminal MA programs? SFSU looks really competitive, it's mentioned in Leiter's report as a good place for a terminal degree, but this is a place I'd like to go to.

[MattDest]

Adcoms, especially at terminal MA programs, will care most about your latest work. The Ws might matter a bit, but as long as you do well with the 30 credits you have left, I would think your chances at getting into those programs will be pretty good. SFSU will certainly be the most competitive, I don't think CSULA and/or SJSU are very competitive (although I could be wrong, I don't really know much about those programs). 

[MongooseMayhem]

For what it is worth, I got into WashU despite taking more than 9 years to get my BA, including several semesters of W's and an overall GPA of 3.7.

[alethicethic]

A lot of programs look at your most recent work. My sense is that if you have a few years of overall "adjusting to college" for whatever reason, it doesn't matter too much. If you have a strong philosophy GPA, you should be fine. You should look closely at the placement of the MA programs to see who is sending students on to schools that you might like to go to.

[Hypatience]

Look into Canadian MA programs. They accept international students and are funded in the sort of way you can live off. Simon Fraser has the best placement rating, probably, but there are other good ones with less competitive admissions. A two year program would give you plenty of time to acquire new, stronger letters, if yours are weak. It is absolutely possible to springboard from a Canadian MA into a top PhD program (if that's your goal, that is -- if you just plan to get the MA, that's cool too).

Edited February 24, 2014 by Hypatience

[Monadology]

About your writing sample: Unless you're applying to programs with specifically continental leanings, the more analytic the more effective (generally speaking). I don't know how continental your current candidate leans, though. Maybe you could give a rough description if you're comfortable?

 

 By the way, I've heard that a good, clear paper on Kant is a great middle ground: lots of programs will have someone interested in Kant and nowadays Kant is a pretty widely respected figure among both analytics and continentals. 

[ianfaircloud]

Here's how I'm looking like right now:

 

Overall GPA 2.929

Major GPA for Upper Division Classes: 3.66

Pedigree: California State University 

 

These look like lackluster stats. I've had a few Ws in my freshman and sophomore years. I want to get into SFSU, CSULA, and SJSU in that order. My chances look low for getting in to these schools, but I have 30 more units to prove myself. It has to be straight As or bust. That is my plan. I have a writing sample that's looking very average at the moment, I had an A in said sample but I know more ways to make it better. I am worried that my writing sample will not suffice; it leans continental and I may want to consider more programs to apply to in the future. Should I prepare a writing sample that caters to the majority of the philosophy academics in the USA?

 

I don't have a specific AOA yet, but I am just an interested student. I do like phil of language, Kant, German Idealism, critical theory, ethics, and metaphysics, but this might change.

 

Let's assume I get straight As, I did not calculate it but my estimate is that my major GPA might look like a 3.7 or a 3.8. Do you think I might get accepted to these terminal MA programs? SFSU looks really competitive, it's mentioned in Leiter's report as a good place for a terminal degree, but this is a place I'd like to go to.

 

I want to be helpful, but I don't have enough information here. I recommend that you do the math to determine what your GPA will be with straight-As. A bad GPA can be explained away with the proper letters of recommendation and with evidence to show dramatic, recent improvement. A person who overcomes a crisis and finishes college with four semesters of straight-As can sometimes repair the earlier damage done to the transcript.

 

You may not need the MA program; it may depend on how high you shoot in terms of PhD programs.

 

In your case, I think your undergraduate institution won't be a liability except in PhD admissions at the highest levels.

 

What's far more damaging to an application is holding a bachelor's degree from a no-name college with a poor academic reputation and a weak or nonexistent philosophy department. I often laugh when I hear others say that they, too, attended a weak undergraduate institution. Someone on this forum the other day suggested that their undergraduate institution was weak because it wasn't ranked in US News. I don't think people know what some of us mean when we say "weak" undergraduate institution. We're talking about schools that are barely accredited, schools with one philosopher, or with someone who is a "philosopher" without formal training in philosophy. Or "Bible colleges," as some call them. I know of only one person who was admitted to a top-ten department who earned a bachelor's at a Bible college; this person was an extremely rare exception, and this person went through a top-six MA program.

Edited February 24, 2014 by ianfaircloud

[ZiggyPhil]

Regarding stats and getting in:

 

I was in a similar though not identical situation, and am currently in a fully funded M.A. program.  My overall GPA was actually lower than yours, but my major GPA was higher.  However, my philosophy classes were not spread out, as I went back to earn a second B.A. in philosophy a couple years after graduating (at the same school, so the GPA was just averaged with my old GPA).  I think in order to have a good shot you need essentially all A's in your remaining coursework (and try to impress the profs...  in situations like ours I think letters are especially important).  I would also study very hard and get an excellent score on the GRE, even if it is optional for admission.  A high GRE combined with excellent recent grades can help assure the M.A. program that your past work is not indicative of your future potential.

 

If you need funding I would apply to more than those three programs.  I had to apply to more than a dozen school to find funding.  If you don't need it (especially since it sounds like you'll be paying in-state tuition), you may be okay with just those three.

 

Regarding writing sample:

 

If you're really interested in continental, I wouldn't try to write an analytic writing sample.  First, it's highly unlikely you'll be able to do it well (just as I could not produce a good writing sample on a continental figure).  Second, any program that doesn't take a continental writing sample seriously won't take continental philosophy seriously, and why would you want to spend 2 years in a department that doesn't share your main interests?     

[SamStone]

I actually had a similar question about chances of getting into an MA program. 

 

Maybe some of you could  offer your thoughts...

 

I did not study philosophy during undergrad..and my GPA was only 3.17

But, I am just finishing an MA in theology from a theological seminary: GPA 3.9

Here, I have focused on philosophical theology and have become very interested in philosophy of mind, language, and cognitive science. 

 

I applied to both PhD and MA programs; however, I have been told not to expect to get into PhD programs without a background in it. Is the same somewhat true for MA programs? 

 

 

ALSO: does anyone have an idea of when MA programs usually start posting decisions?

Edited February 24, 2014 by Muska11

[sacklunch]

To be fair, theology MA's tend to have wildly high admissions rates compared to Philosophy MA's. It may sound strange, but it is easier to get into Harvard Divinity School (acceptance somewhere around 50%) than it would be for SFSU. Not that you can't get into a competitive program with your GPA, just thought I would caution against comparing theological degrees vs. philosophical MA's.

 

cheers

[Monadology]

I actually had a similar question about chances of getting into an MA program. 

 

Maybe some of you could  offer your thoughts...

 

I did not study philosophy during undergrad..and my GPA was only 3.17

But, I am just finishing an MA in theology from a theological seminary: GPA 3.9

Here, I have focused on philosophical theology and have become very interested in philosophy of mind, language, and cognitive science. 

 

I applied to both PhD and MA programs; however, I have been told not to expect to get into PhD programs without a background in it. Is the same somewhat true for MA programs? 

 

 

ALSO: does anyone have an idea of when MA programs usually start posting decisions?

 

MA programs frequently take students with a limited philosophical background. If you've been studying Aquinas or Scotus or what-have-you, I'm sure you'll have a writing sample and enough background that you can be a serious candidate for an MA program.

[mygpasucks]

I want to be helpful, but I don't have enough information here. I recommend that you do the math to determine what your GPA will be with straight-As. A bad GPA can be explained away with the proper letters of recommendation and with evidence to show dramatic, recent improvement. A person who overcomes a crisis and finishes college with four semesters of straight-As can sometimes repair the earlier damage done to the transcript.

 

You may not need the MA program; it may depend on how high you shoot in terms of PhD programs.

 

In your case, I think your undergraduate institution won't be a liability except in PhD admissions at the highest levels.

 

What's far more damaging to an application is holding a bachelor's degree from a no-name college with a poor academic reputation and a weak or nonexistent philosophy department. I often laugh when I hear others say that they, too, attended a weak undergraduate institution. Someone on this forum the other day suggested that their undergraduate institution was weak because it wasn't ranked in US News. I don't think people know what some of us mean when we say "weak" undergraduate institution. We're talking about schools that are barely accredited, schools with one philosopher, or with someone who is a "philosopher" without formal training in philosophy. Or "Bible colleges," as some call them. I know of only one person who was admitted to a top-ten department who earned a bachelor's at a Bible college; this person was an extremely rare exception, and this person went through a top-six MA program.

I just did my calculations and it looks like if I get straight A's the whole way, my major GPA looks to be about 3.684. I really regret my semester in which I messed up!

 

There's a lot of time between now and the end of my degree. I still think that I can come up with another writing sample should the need arise.

 

I appreciate much of the advice you all are giving me! If you have more, go and give it! :-)

 

And are you sure my pedigree won't affect me? I don't come from the more elite UC system here in California, I come from the Rodney Dangerfield of education that is the CSU system. I do not think my department is bad, they do come from very respective backgrounds and really give their all towards their students.

 

edit: I certainly do not mind being accepted to a Ph.D granting institution that is not mentioned in the Leiter rankings, I certainly wouldn't mind teaching at a community college; if my pedigree of the university that granted me my Ph.D is perceived to be of low quality it looks like I might end up teaching at a community college. I do think research is something I might want to do though. At a projected 3.684, I'm not sure if I should go for Ph.Ds or a terminal MA.

Edited February 25, 2014 by mygpasucks

[PhD applicant]

Also, don't forget to look into your school's policy on retaking a class. I was able to significantly raise my GPA by retaking a few classes because my school had an over-ride policy - the new grade completely erased the old one. But some schools do an average of the two so it wouldn't do you any good to retake them in that case. Certainly double check the policy if you're that worried about it. You might be able to do some repair work.

[Monadology]

edit: I certainly do not mind being accepted to a Ph.D granting institution that is not mentioned in the Leiter rankings, I certainly wouldn't mind teaching at a community college; if my pedigree of the university that granted me my Ph.D is perceived to be of low quality it looks like I might end up teaching at a community college. I do think research is something I might want to do though. At a projected 3.684, I'm not sure if I should go for Ph.Ds or a terminal MA.

 

Apply to both PhDs and MAs. It's probably better to go to a good MA than a bad PhD (check the PhD placement records, btw, you don't want to get an unranked program that also doesn't place its students, you'll still need to compete for community college jobs).