Schools that don't follow the ACPA April 15th guideline- Advice?

[JBums1028]

Hello! This is going to be geared more towards my student affairs people because it involves GA offers. So I applied to a smaller school in Michigan that apparently doesn't abide by the ACPA guidelines for GA offers. They are strongly encouraging their candidates to accept a GA offer within 24 hours (I chose to say "strongly encourage" because "require" is potentially too strong of a word. They did say there is potential to extend more time if the department is willing to wait for a candidate). However, the other schools I'm applying to may not make an offer until later this month (and for one of them I won't even interview until the 21st). I really want to be able to make an informed decision, but this particular school might pressure me to make a decision before I'm prepared to.

 

Has anyone been in this situation before? What do you advise that I do? I really and truly liked all three of the schools that I interviewed at for different reasons. There was a GA position at this particular school that aligned perfectly with my professional goals. Like I said, they might allow me more time. But I'm still at a loss for what to do. This school will start making offers next week.

Edited March 1, 2014 by JBums1028

[justinmcummings]

I found this document on google that explains some of our rights as potential graduate students, here is the link to the pdf

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myacpa.org%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2FApril%252015%2520GA%2520Resolution%2520FAQ%2520(rev.%25202010).pdf&ei=1ysSU5-UPIz2oATf-YHIBA&usg=AFQjCNGo4l78b4_H9OpV33IKxKtBThP1-g&sig2=iPgRS0Jh3OuxDGsatxs4YA&bvm=bv.62286460,d.cGU&cad=rja

 

Inside that document it shows a website of all schools that are required to participate, I would look and see if your school is on the list.

 

Here is a link to that document www.cgsnet.org/portals/0/pdf/CGS_Resolution.pdf

 

from what I understand if your school is in the list you can accept or decline all you want before the 15th of April. After that date it is considered a binding contract. DO NOT TAKE MY WORD AS FACT, this is only what I have heard and found online. I would get more information from students at that school if possible.

[JBums1028]

Thanks, unfortunately this particular school I'm referring to isn't listed as participating in the resolution. So I guess I'm still at square one as to what I should do.

[hesadork]

Most importantly try to hang in there and not let the stress eat you up.  (Easier said than done, I know.)

 

Let me back up a second and ask you this -- among the three programs where you interviewed, if you had to rank the "smaller school in MI" in terms of your level of interest, where would it fall?

 

2nd question, how confident are you that you're likely to be admitted to the other two programs?

Edited March 1, 2014 by hesadork

[JBums1028]

Most importantly try to hang in there and not let the stress eat you up.  (Easier said than done, I know.)

 

Let me back up a second and ask you this -- among the three programs where you interviewed, if you had to rank the "smaller school in MI" (GVSU?) in terms of your level of interest, where would it fall?

 

2nd question, how confident are you that you're likely to be admitted to the other two programs?

 

To answer the first question, if I were in the perfect situation where I had a GA offer that I liked from all three, they would be my last choice. I'm just being honest here.

 

The other two in the mix are UConn and MSU. If I get an offer from UConn, I will go there. But I'm still waiting on the offer. They also begin extending offers next week, but depending on where I am on a departments list I might not hear back for a few weeks. MSU operates differently, so I'm admitted without a GA position. Right now my prospects for a GA there are slim though (I interviewed for two. One decided not to hire a GA at all, the other position was NOT a good fit and I'm not expecting to hear back. They did just open a new position that I plan to apply for, but they won't be evaluating applicants for it until March 10th).

 

To throw in the plot twist, MSU does not offer academic advising GA positions (my ideal career choice) but the other two do. So I guess my predicament is, would I prefer going to this school with a GA position or going to MSU without one and hoping I find one eventually? I do have the option there to accept an hourly position in Student Athlete Support Services. So that would be good advising/mentoring experience, but it won't come with tuition assistance.

 

Of course if UConn admits me, this all becomes a non-issue. I feel good about my chances, but it's a highly competitive program still. So you never know.

 

Did any of this make sense? It felt very stream of conciousness typing it out. I guess prior to all of this I thought I'd be able to take my time and make rational, well thought out decisions. I wasn't expecting to potentially be put in a tight spot with an offer.

[hesadork]

It did make sense...and I agree it's a tough spot to be in.  Also agree that UConn is a no-brainer if you get admitted; let me say I think your choices get super muddy after that.

 

Some more ?'s to help you think this through:

 

1)  I think it would be smart to run the GVSU vs. MSU numbers, assuming you get the GA you want at GVSU but have to go hourly at MSU.  How big a $ difference are we talking to complete the programs, soup-to-nuts?

 

2)  Is there any way of determining the prospects for finding a GA at MSU post-matriculation?  (Said another way: is it even possible to "find one eventually" after you've already begun the program?)

 

3)  How sure are you about academic advising?   

 

4)  As I recall you know Michigan pretty well.  As between living in East Lansing and living in Grand Rapids, do you have a strong preference?

[JBums1028]

1)  I think it would be smart to run the GVSU vs. MSU numbers, assuming you get the GA you want at GVSU but have to go hourly at MSU.  How big a $ difference are we talking to complete the programs, soup-to-nuts?

 

I will definitely take the time to do this. I won't get into specifics regarding my finances on here though.

 

2)  Is there any way of determining the prospects for finding a GA at MSU post-matriculation?  (Said another way: is it even possible to "find one eventually" after you've already begun the program?)

 

From those that I've talked to, it sounds like a lot of departments there are simply not prepared to hire a GA in early February. So things do open up over the summer. They've even had one open up that their interviewing for in March (I plan to apply since it's related to academic affairs). My undergraduate adviser (he was a state grad) said that most everyone in his cohort had found something by second semester. The latest I've heard is someone not finding one until the second year. It sounds like the people who direct the program do actively try to help you find something.

 

3)  How sure are you about academic advising?   

 

I considered both school counseling and social work prior to student affairs. I know that I at least want a position where I can work one on one with students and work with them long term. Academic Advising seems like the best fit for this. However, I don't yet have true academic advising experience so that could change things. I have considered other areas as well. Also for the record, it's not impossible to gain advising experience at MSU. They do offer advising practicum experiences.

 

4)  As I recall you know Michigan pretty well.  As between living in East Lansing and living in Grand Rapids, do you have a strong preference?

 

Well I did my undergrad at MSU so I'm cool with East Lansing. One plus to MSU is that there are so many places to live within walking distance. GV isn't actually in Grand Rapids. It's 20 minutes outside of GR. Plus it's in a weird area where there isn't anything within walking distance of the campus. So I'd have to drive. They do have a bus, but it sounds like a lot of the more affordable complexes aren't on the bus line. I'd choose to live in GR mostly because there's more to do in that area. In short, I'm okay with both.

 

You're right, it's muddy. There are pros to each and there are cons to each. However, there is something about the fact that they don't follow the guidelines that isn't really sitting right with me. I need to work on taking your first set of advice which is to (try to) stop worrying...

Edited March 1, 2014 by JBums1028

[hesadork]

On balance, I think all of this argues strongly in favor of MSU in the event UConn turns you down.

 

So if GVSU puts you in the position of having to respond ASAP to its GA offer, I think you can feel good about being fairly insistent on an extension.  Provided the $ difference between GVSU and MSU isn't obnoxious -- and to your point, you're the only one who can/should judge that -- I'd be hard pressed to cave to GVSU's demands to accept immediately.

 

Good luck and keep us posted!  (And: breathe...)

[ZeChocMoose]

I had a similar situation during my master's application season.  Since my campus visiting spanned about 6 weeks, I got offered assistantships before I had a chance to visit other schools. To make a long story short - I ended up declining one fully funded offer before I had anything else yet on the table.  (They gave me about 1 week to decide if I remember correctly.)  I am not sure if I recommend that for you as GVSU seems like a viable option but I knew that I didn't want to attend this school as the program was focused too heavily on practice and I wanted experience with research and theory.  

 

A couple weeks later, I got another fully funded offer from another school.  They wanted me to make a decision before I ended up visiting my last school.  I was really torn because I really enjoyed the visit at this school and the assistantship offer was one that I wanted, but I felt something pulling me to visit my last school. What I did was, I called the director of the program at school #1 and I explained my situation.  He was very understanding and told me that I could make a decision after I visited my last school.  There was about a 2 - 3 week gap so this was extremely generous.  Thankfully, I did call and ask for extension because that last school ended up being the one that I chose to attend.  Thus, my recommendation would be if you do get an assistantship offer from GVSU call to see if you can get an extension.  I would also then call up UConn explain your situation and ask when they are making decisions on assistantships.  Hopefully they line up so you'll hear back from UConn before you need to decide on GVSU.  If not, I recommend the suggestions offered by hesadork.

 

For MSU - do they have any assistantships in transfer admissions?  I did that for my assistantship in my master's program and it was extremely similar to academic advising. In transfer admissions, I was constantly evaluating transcripts and advising students on which classes to take and the process of admissions. The transfer admission office also handled internal transfers to particular programs/majors as well as regular external transfers so I got a similar skill set as an academic advisor would have.  I also did academic advising position as an internship too so usually there are other avenues to get the experiences that you seek if you don't get offered an assistantship in advising.  

 

And finally, I know this is stressful and kinda a crazy time.  If it helps - think of this as practice for when you start applying to jobs and get offers back intermittently. Usually job offers also have a small window of time to allow you to make a decision. If you practice now with calling up your schools and having a discussion with them you will be in a good place for when you need to do this for your first job after your master's degree.  Being able to proactively advocate for yourself professionally is a great skill to begin building early. 

 

Good luck!

[JBums1028]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I'll keep you posted with an update about what's going on. Right now I'm just trying to not stress about it.

[TakeruK]

I found this document on google that explains some of our rights as potential graduate students, here is the link to the pdf

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myacpa.org%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2FApril%252015%2520GA%2520Resolution%2520FAQ%2520(rev.%25202010).pdf&ei=1ysSU5-UPIz2oATf-YHIBA&usg=AFQjCNGo4l78b4_H9OpV33IKxKtBThP1-g&sig2=iPgRS0Jh3OuxDGsatxs4YA&bvm=bv.62286460,d.cGU&cad=rja

 

Inside that document it shows a website of all schools that are required to participate, I would look and see if your school is on the list.

 

Here is a link to that document www.cgsnet.org/portals/0/pdf/CGS_Resolution.pdf

 

from what I understand if your school is in the list you can accept or decline all you want before the 15th of April. After that date it is considered a binding contract. DO NOT TAKE MY WORD AS FACT, this is only what I have heard and found online. I would get more information from students at that school if possible.

 

I just want to clarify that the CGS Resolution is between the Graduate Schools of the listed institutions only. So, if your program is not administered by the Graduate School, then the resolution may not apply even if the program is at a school on that list. Also, there is no actual penalty for schools to break that resolution!

[JBums1028]

UPDATE: So I haven't heard anything yet from anywhere... maybe this won't be a problem for me after all?

 

For those who have been through this process, about how long did it take you to hear back about a GA post-interview weekend? I know it's only been two days, but I'm starting to worry...

[JBums1028]

Another UPDATE: Got a call from GV today, they already filled the three positions I applied for.    So much for that... They did say that they would update the website with the positions still available. So maybe it's still in the cards for me? I'm not sure.

 

Thanks everyone for your help, though!

Edited March 5, 2014 by JBums1028

[hesadork]

Hang in there!!  Things have a funny way of working themselves out in the end

[JBums1028]

Hang in there!!  Things have a funny way of working themselves out in the end

 

Yeah I'm trying to... and I know I'm probably going to sound like a terrible person for saying this, but they were initially a back up plan for me. It kind of stings not even getting an offer from your safety. It's like, "what did I do wrong?!?!?" I guess I'll just have to check back next week and see if I'm interested in any of the remaining/new positions. As much as I'm reaching the point of desperation for a GA, I feel like accepting a position that isn't remotely related to my professional goals wouldn't be wise.