hesadork

Great question rnk. I think a good rule of thumb (and advice I was given that I'm grateful for): $0 non-ed-related (ie, credit card, auto) debt, 3-6 months living expenses.

What are your ultimate career goals? That will inform the "right" choice here.

Take the TOEFL. Unless you took those courses for college credit your grades in them are irrelevant for grad school admission.

Looks like SUNY-Stony Brook may have discontinued its Manhattan HEA program, but its program at the main campus on LI is still up-and-running.

If you want to be in NYC itself, your options are CUNY-Baruch, Columbia, NYU and SUNY-Stony Brook's Manhattan program. If you'll consider nearby (northern) NJ, you can add Montclair State, Rutgers-New Brunswick and Seton Hall. If you'll consider Long Island, you can add Hofstra and SUNY-Stony Brook's LI program. Best of luck with your searching!

I am really enjoying (probably not the right word, but you get my drift) this thread. My story is that I attended a small liberal arts college and graduated in '97 with about $55k in debt (translates to roughly $80k in current dollars). I got a relatively well-paying job out of undergrad...except for the fact that it was located in Manhattan (amazing place but obviously v high cost of living). Those first few years were just really, really hard. I made it work (commuted from Jersey, had multiple roommates, rarely ate out, never took cabs)...but the need to make those monthly payments PROFOUNDLY limited my career options. Basically I had to focus on salary almost exclusively as opposed to fit, culture, work-life balance, personal interest, location etc. And it effectively took grad school off the table for the entire time I was paying the loans back. Flash forward to deciding about grad school for my master's; I was choosing between two distinguished private institutions (big names, high cost, little aid) or a really inexpensive in-state public. For me the choice was clear: the in-state public. I won a fellowship and a cash award at graduation, and because of the more flexible structure of the program (common at many public universities) I was able to continue working part-time while in school. When all was said and done I paid about $10,000 (all in: tuition, fees, books, commuting to campus) out of pocket during the two year program. I have not once regretted the choice. The biggest mistake I see students, mentees, advisees make is underestimating the impact of loan debt on your life, your choices and very much on your psychology. You'll be living with the choices you make now for a very long time where debt is concerned. It's a personal choice, of course, but I think some times people are ill-equipped to understand what's really at stake when they are relatively early in life/careers. Best of luck to everyone navigating this!

To expand on the prior post: some graduate schools of public administration/affairs/policy (as opposed to graduate schools of education) also offer specializations in ed policy. And some ed policy programs are offered jointly between the policy school and the ed school. Just as one example, George Washington offers both a doctorate (PhD) in education policy through its School of Public Policy & Public Administration as well as doctorate (EdD) in education policy through its School of Education & Human Development. As I understand it, the two schools have very different cultures and the two programs operate quite separately.

I'm not familiar with Montclair's program but you should definitely check out the College Student Affairs program at Rutgers-New Brunswick. Link is here: http://gse.rutgers.edu/academic-programs/edm-programs/college-student-affairs-ed-m

The affiliation between TC and Columbia is complicated and is at least in part an artifact of political and legal and historical quirks that no one cares about at this point. It is an arrangement that highly unique in post-secondary education. They are the ed school affiliated with Columbia. They will always be the ed school affiliated with Columbia. "Teachers College, Columbia University" is the accepted convention as to how to represent the name of the institution. As to hiring committees: opinions about the quality of TC vary widely, but I would argue that has little to do with TC's relationship to Columbia. There are other schools in the Columbia universe that have equally up-and-down reps (SIPA, Arts)...regardless of the legal structures of their relationships.

A degree from TC is a degree from Columbia. Full stop.

It's tied for 129th in the latest US News rankings of doctoral-granting ed programs.

I see next to no value in a second master's. So to my eyes, the question is an EdD or nothing. The position titles you list don't typically require a doctorate (though this can vary by institution). Take a look on higheredjobs.com or in the Chronicle at education requirements for some of these types of positions in your area -- that might give you a sense of the field. That said, no question that an EdD would make you a more competitive candidate, irrespective of the published requirements. You may also want to consider timing: is now the right time for an EdD? Would it be better to land in an administrative role and then pursue it?

Also very much depends on your sub-field.

Given your career aspirations, I'd go with the less expensive option. Unless you want to move to a new geography, do something radically different in education or enter academia, the loan debt from the elite private is just not going to provide good return on investment.

Back when I was applying for my master's degree a friend and mentor gave me some good advice (that I have since given to many others): if something is really bothering you about a school's admission process -- including questions on the application that seriously rub you the wrong way -- listen to what the universe is telling you and don't apply to that school. Questions like this one tell you something about the institutional culture. No matter the school's ranking or how much you like the curriculum or the strength of the faculty, if there is not a culture fit it probably isn't the place for you. FWIW, I actually think diversity in the classroom is very relevant/resonant...but that can vary a lot by field and geography. Hope that's helpful. Good luck.

The econ professor is the better choice. You already have a professional reference (your director) in the mix. Whether or not the professor is tenured matters less, in my opinion...

ZeChocMoose - our first discussion board disagreement! Gads! Lol Every person is different and will need to make a judgment call about how best to represent themselves. For some early career folks, that will mean 1 page; for others, 2. I agree with that. But for someone with less than 5 years of full time post-UG work experience, I am hard pressed to believe 2 pages are necessary. Here's why: From the perspective of a hiring manager -- who maybe spends a minute or two per applicant doing the initial (post-HR) cut: listing every club/student activity in which you participated does you no favors. Using 3-5 bullet points to describe what you did as an RA (a function we are all familiar with) does you no favors. Summary statements and vanilla skills lists (web browsing, MS Office) do you no favors; if the position requires a specialized skill, it should be noted in the cover letter. (Exception: *fluency* in a language other than English if the institution serves a population that speaks that language.) One of the reasons I love this field so much is that it attracts people who are *involved* on campus -- we are not just along for the ride. And our impulse as over-involved people is to explicate that involvement; we want people to understand that we're doers. And/But, that impulse doesn't always serve when applying for early career jobs. Sorry to have thread-jacked this, JBums!

In NYC and CUNY circles, Hunter is considered to be more prestigious than Lehman. (Note: this is not specific to the ed programs - I'm just talking generally about the institutions.) Also - don't underestimate how much longer your commute to Lehman will be. It's at least 45 minutes beyond Hunter on the subway. I'd go with Hunter.

I think 2 pages is fine for inclusion with the your grad school application package. That said, once you're on the market for full-time employment, cut it back down to a single page. Campus activities, internships and employment while in UG can usually be condensed (and in certain cases, eliminated altogether) to recover the space. As a hiring manager, there's nothing worse that looking at a resume from a relatively junior professional who insists on listing, in great detail, all of those experiences -- all it does is reinforce the junior-ness.

I think JBums has given some excellent advice here. Just one additional thought: think about the region/state where you want to end up. (That is, if you really want to be in CA or New England or the midwest, think about prioritizing programs in those regions.) With very few exceptions, most HESA programs place regionally -- institutions do not conduct national searches for early-/mid-level jobs, and most grad students can't afford to be flying all over the place for gigs that pay $40k-$50k.

Just remember there are usually opportunities for campus jobs that aren't technically considered GAs but will still give you good experience and some compensation. And sometimes GAs open up mid-semester or at the start of the spring semester for a variety of reasons. Deferral can be a good option if 1) you find a meaningful way to spend the year that gives you something powerful to write about in your next personal statement; and/or 2) you're willing to rethink your application strategy (which could mean targeting different schools, getting different references, retaking the GREs, etc.).

Doctoral. The main rankings--and therefore the speciality rankings--are open only institutions that offer a doctoral option (PhD or EdD in Education). The metrics on the main rankings (GRE scores, admission stats) relate only to doctoral applicants. And perception of programmatic prestige is probably largely driven by strength of the faculty in terms of research productivity, which arguably is more of a doctoral consideration.

Here is the methodology on the speciality rankings. In short, it is a subjective survey of prestige -- numbers (scores, research spending, productivity, etc.) do not factor into the analysis. For the Higher Ed sub-field, there has been a lot of movement year-to-year over the years...which makes me skeptical. "Specialty rankings: Education specialty ratings are based solely on nominations by education school deans and education school deans of graduate studies from the list of schools surveyed. They selected up to 10 top programs in each area. Those schools receiving the most votes in each specialty are listed and are numerically ranked in descending order based on the number of nominations they received as long as the school/program received seven or more nominations in that specialty area. This means that schools ranked at the bottom of each specialty ranking have received seven nominations."

For whatever they're worth... http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-education-schools/edu-rankings

Hang in there!! Things have a funny way of working themselves out in the end