Pursuing a Distance MTS

[neat]

I'm in the process of researching various graduate theological degrees, and would like to pursue a distance program (I'm currently working in urban education and feel called to continue working here at this time).  My undergraduate background was in History and Philosophy, and I'm interested in pursuing Theology and perhaps further training in Church History down the road.  From the research that I've done, I think an MTS program is probably the best fit for me.  I have been looking at a couple different programs, and wondered if anyone had any input. For instance, I saw that Tyndale Seminary offers an online Master of Theological Studies (and so does UDallas if I was interested in attending a Catholic university).  Does anyone have input on doing this type of degree program from a distance or modular perspective?

[xypathos]

I reckon it would be fine for furthering yourself, on a personal level. Should you want to pursue even further work at a reputable PhD program though, I doubt little to any of the coursework would transfer but that's also generally true of students who do a brick and mortar M* before going into a PhD program.

 

I did roughly 25% of my UG education in an online environment and that doesn't seem to have hampered me any in getting into solid quality MDiv programs. I also supplemented my coursework with additional readings and by the time I graduated this past December, had three pieces published in lesser known, though still peer reviewed, journals.

 

I don't like online education personally since it gives too many routes for shoddy work - from the student and professor. Being in the classroom, actively engaged in conversation with your peers just can't be replaced with a classroom that has students and faculty converse through web forums and recorded lectures. I realize it's the only option for some students, as it was for me this last year, but I was sure glad that it was over and behind me.

[sacklunch]

If you want to have a chance at top doctoral programs, then no, those sorts of degrees would likely do you more harm than good. You would prolly have to get another masters after to show you can function at a purely academic level (this goes for all online graduate degrees, it seems). If you goal is applying to doctoral programs, I think you are better off taking classes locally, for instance language courses or doing coursework in another area you know you need to beef up. 

[neat]

How about MTS degrees in general? Is this sort of program typically not a good one to set up (possible) PhD studies in the future?  I recognize that the ThM is recognized as the more rigorous one in the field, and I would not at all be opposed to pursuing a second Master's degree later on if I found the right fit.  My language background is weak, to be honest- I have some rudimentary Latin and a bit of French but not much else.  I had been thinking that an MTS program would perhaps help me shape what field I'm interested in before pursuing more intensive graduate degrees.

[marXian]

If you're interested in historical theology and/or church history, languages aren't quite as important as they are for those doing philological work on texts, say, from the Ancient Near East. in the latter sorts of disciplines, you need to develop advanced proficiency in a number of ancient languages (usually more than the standard "2 foreign languages" requirement in most programs). In the former disciplines, you need to be really, really good at Latin--that's probably most important. Next would be German, but after that you probably won't need anything else. Some humanities departments are phasing out the standard 2 modern research languages requirement and moving to a "foreign languages as needed" requirement. Some departments only require two languages, and whether they're modern or not doesn't matter. All that to say--you may not need French. 

 

You can't get into a ThM program unless you have an MDiv or equivalent. It's sort of "in between" a M* degree like an MTS or MDiv and a PhD. They're usually one year of advanced study where you work closely with one prof and then you write a thesis (so you could technically finish it in one year.) They can be helpful for those who have a M* degree but want another year to figure out a solid direction to propose for PhD applications.

 

But an MTS is totally fine for applying to PhD programs. Especially if you're applying to secular RS departments that have theology tracks (e.g. Yale, Northwestern, UVA, etc.), all "theological" degrees tend to be viewed the same. That is, an MA in theology, an MDiv, an MTS, are all M* degrees to those departments--what matters is where you got them, the level and quality of work you did there, who you worked with, etc. There may be some situations in which one is preferred over the other, but not being in one of those situations myself, I don't know what those would be.

Edited March 12, 2014 by marXian

[mdiv2014]

Comment above suggested a thesis might be done in a year. This is wishful thinking even for a fulltime student.

[Macrina]

Comment above suggested a thesis might be done in a year. This is wishful thinking even for a fulltime student.

That's standard practice in an advanced masters program. In my program, it's done as one of the courses in the spring semester, 50-75 pages of thesis, while taking 3 other classes.

[marXian]

Comment above suggested a thesis might be done in a year. This is wishful thinking even for a fulltime student.

 

I have to disagree. ThMs are usually designed to get people through in a year. I've known many students at Fuller Seminary in the ThM program who finished in a year.  That's because as they were doing their 3-4 year MDiv, they were already beginning to narrow in on an area of interest, work closely with the professor who would eventually mentor them, and were basically able to expand a good seminar paper into the thesis--which is exactly what you should do for a thesis.

 

And I also wrote my thesis for my first MA in a little under a year. It was English, not theology/religion, but still, it's definitely possible.

 

This little piece of advice probably doesn't belong on this thread, but I'll say it anyway: Your thesis/dissertation is not the culmination of your career's work. It's the beginning of it. Spending ages and ages writing a dissertation--let alone a master's thesis--is the wrong way to go. That's why getting a thesis done in a year should never be thought of as wishful thinking. Even though many PhD students are unable to meet this goal, the standard timeline for most PhD programs is to write the dissertation in years 4 and 5. That's two years. That's what you have funding for from the department. A thesis, though a big deal while you're writing it, needs to be seen as one milestone, your first really, on the way to much bigger things.

[mdiv2014]

we may agree that we disagree.

my masters thesis was 125 pages.....data collection began with 3 month pilot study then actual 3 months of raw statistical data, through it all i was working full time, had 3 kids under 10, extended my deadline then took an incomplete, one second attempt got the maximum grade. 

the thesis was the pinnacle of my work to that point in time

the program was designed that way and no student ever completed on time per their original schedule

different programs are run differently

Edited March 13, 2014 by mdiv2014

[Macrina]

we may agree that we disagree.

my masters thesis was 125 pages.....data collection began with 3 month pilot study then actual 3 months of raw statistical data, through it all i was working full time, had 3 kids under 10, extended my deadline then took an incomplete, one second attempt got the maximum grade. 

the thesis was the pinnacle of my work to that point in time

the program was designed that way and no student ever completed on time per their original schedule

different programs are run differently

Was this for religion/theology? Because the data collection that you describe is not a standard part of an academic degree in religion or theology, where masters thesis work is indeed done from start to finish over the course of a year, either your last year in a basic degree program or as a part of a yearlong advanced masters.

[mdiv2014]

it was in linguistics, but any field research (e.g. attitudinal study, knowledge testing, etc. based on interviews or surveys) can be unpredictable and would require a sample pool that has a minimum size and prior planning - ugh, reliving the trauma just writing this, then there's the data analysis, oh my.... more pain

[RedDoor]

As a ThM student, I'll also throw my experience in and say that an advanced masters (ThM/MSt) is only 9 months, thesis included.

[marXian]

we may agree that we disagree.

my masters thesis was 125 pages.....data collection began with 3 month pilot study then actual 3 months of raw statistical data, through it all i was working full time, had 3 kids under 10, extended my deadline then took an incomplete, one second attempt got the maximum grade. 

the thesis was the pinnacle of my work to that point in time

the program was designed that way and no student ever completed on time per their original schedule

different programs are run differently

 

"Different programs are run differently." Yes, indeed.

 

No one in a humanities field is writing a 125 page thesis. Faculty would absolutely make a student cut that in half at least. Also, as Macrina mentioned, you're usually not doing field work for a theology degree, especially not a ThM. Research in the library is not field work. There's no IRB approval, no data collection (at least not in the same way), data analysis, etc. Now, in religious studies, some people do ethnography, so there's a significant amount of field work involved. But, as I mentioned in my first post on this thread, there aren't very many terminal MA programs in RS. Most people posting here are interested in the MDiv/MA/MTS, etc.

[Kuriakos]

I wrote a hundred page thesis for my ThM (although the rules have now been changed and that is no longer permitted). 

[Alex Madlinger]

Unless you're working for Stanley Porter at McMaster, I hear their thesis requirements are ridiculous. But I have to agree. My case might be unusual because I had written three other papers in the same sub-sub-sub field as my thesis in the previous year, and I had a lot of opportunity to narrow my interests and read the literature. I was able to start writing my thesis after only two weeks of additional reading and research. Even so, most religion MA theses are easily done in a year.

[Body Politics]

Yeah. Mdiv guy up there is an outlier.

[Body Politics]

Although, in fairness, so am I. I got my thesis through inspection and it clocked in at 99 pages. I look at it now and could easily edit it down to 60 or 70.

[Kuriakos]

Although, in fairness, so am I. I got my thesis through inspection and it clocked in at 99 pages. I look at it now and could easily edit it down to 60 or 70.

 

I feel the same way about mine. I could edit it down to 70 and add a couple more chapters, and then it might be good for something. 

 

P.S. My comment above makes it sound like the rule changed because of me. This is not so. I just squeaked by before it took effect!