Prospective statistics Phd student

[Hapa]

Hi all,

 

I've decided after working for several years that I would like to go back to school for a Phd in Statistics. I did poorly while in undergraduate and didn't major in a Math related field (Finance) so I'm worried about how my application will look. Due to personal reasons I am limited to colleges around the area (I'm specifically hoping to attend University of California, Irvine) and so I need to know my approximate chances of success so I can focus where I need to. I didn't really apply myself when I was younger (I'll be 28 this year) but now that I've matured I've rediscovered the things that interested me when I was younger.

 

Education

Undergraduate college: California State University, Long Beach

Major: Finance/International Business

GPA: 2.9 (From what I remember)

 

Work experience

Large entertainment company:

1/2 year in retail analytics for a post undergraduate co-op

 

Large specialty retailer:

1 year in Business Intelligence

1.5 years in Strategic Planning

 

Skills

Basic Python (Data scraping, automating work functions,geo coding)

Expert SQL (non-developer level. Windowed analytic functions, complex queries)

Basic statistics (I use statistics in work related projects for forecastnig, analysis, etc.)

 

I've been taking online classes through Coursera to get my math skills up to speed and I'm planning to take classes at a local community college for credit when possible to make up for my lack of formal math education and undergrad GPA. I've been taking practice GRE tests and and scoring in the low 160s for verbal and math currently (new GRE). I'm hoping my work skills will help me offset my lack of formal education as I'm considered on the fast track in the company, I've applied basic statistics in a real setting, and I know how to apply technical knowledge to practical problems, which to me is what lies at the heart of statistics.

 

Any advice or feedback on how I can achieve my goals would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

[ashramsoji]

I would saying you are going to need to take a number of math courses to display your mathematical ability, and that you can do well in an academic setting. 

 

I would imagine your personal statement should include a good explanation as to why you had such a low GPA.

 

Why do you want a PhD? You'll be graduating by the time you're in your mid 30s, and you could do an MS and try to find a job a lot quicker.

[wine in coffee cups]

If you are targeting one specific school, you should probably be in touch with their admissions coordinator (at least after the current application season dies down). That GPA might be below minimum grad school requirements, and you should find out whether this is the case or not and if so, if additional math coursework could mitigate that so that your application could be considered. You could also ask about MS admissions and if one could enroll as an MS student and be admitted to the PhD program later (I think you could have more of a chance with this route rather than direct to PhD since your math/stats background will probably be weak relative to other applicants).

[Hapa]

Thanks all for your replies. For minimum GPA requirements, I believe a 3.0 is required at the specific school I'm looking at, but am hoping to mitigate that through coursework or special admissions. I've already reached out to their admissions counselor/coordinator for clarification.

 

 

 

As for why I want a Phd compared to an M.S? I've put some serious thought into it and basically:

To learn about something I'm interested in and to prove to myself that I can do it

 

To be specific?

 

1. Discipline - My biggest weakness. Every teacher I've had told me some form of "If you only applied yourself...". It took me a long time to realize that being smart is nothing without hard work. I believe that if I can complete a Phd I'll have overcome my greatest weakness and will be prepared for anything.

 

2. Passion - I've always been interested in statistics. As a strong planner (hence the job) I think in terms of probabilities, opportunity costs, data, and patterns. I was fairly apathetic in my earlier schooling (see 1) and only recently have I rediscovered that I enjoy learning in general.

 

3. Legacy/Impact - Being a Phd student will give me the opportunity to hopefully extend the limits of human knowledge. While it may not be much, I think everyone wants to have some sort of impact and/or legacy on the world. This will be my chance.

 

4. Finances - From what I've read, Phd students get funding (to some extent). M.S. students pay to learn. I'd rather not incur the cost of an M.S. if possible.

 

5. Pride - My grandfather completed his doctorates in Math (not sure what type) in 3 years. I doubt I can achieve this but I'd like to see how I stack up.

 

6. Title - My girlfriend (soon to be fiance hopefully) is a medical doctor. It would be awesome if we could both be doctors =p

 

As for graduating when I'm in my mid 30s...that's fine. I would still have 30+ years to work before retirement and even then I only plan to partially retire (I like to work). I would guess that most users on this forum are younger than me, at least for Phd students. While I enjoy my job, money doesn't really buy that much at the end of the day. I would rather have take the decreased earnings potential than live with the regret of a what if.

 

Financially, I'm a decent saver and put away ~20% of my current paycheck and have almost 6 figures in savings/retirement accounts. I'll be accumulating compound interest during my time in grad school.

 

Finally, if grad school doesn't somehow work out for me or I do manage to finish it, I don't think I should have all the issues with finding a job that other grad students do. I already have a good work track record (next month I will be receiving my 2nd promotion in 2.5 years. I can also get an even higher position if I choose to live my current company) and multiple contacts that I've worked with have always told me to contact them if I'm in need of a job.

 

Edited to respond to questions I didn't see

Edited March 22, 2014 by Hapa

[Vege]

Yes. Ph.D. students need discipline. Many grad students cannot discipline themselves, resulting bad outcomes. (Luckily those students are smart enough to get though the undergraduate coursework very well. It seems you don't have the luck.) If you cannot discipline at the very beginning, you probably cannot gain yourself discipline in your graduate study. The graduate committee wants to get a discipline graduate student, not to train your discipline.

 

Getting a M.S. in statistics is good for you.

[statisticsfall2014]

I think you are saying all of the right things for sure, and will need to really sell your narrative in applying. With statistics Graduate school, it seems mathematical ability is very important, so I think your biggest obstacle would be showing admissions committees that you have the mathematical chops to do statistical research. 

[DMX]

realistically, i don't think you have a shot at any top-50 phd programs.

 

i would suggest getting into a decent MS program (since it seems like you have tuition money saved up), doing really well, and then applying to phd afterwards.

 

best of luck

[wine in coffee cups]

4. Finances - From what I've read, Phd students get funding (to some extent). M.S. students pay to learn. I'd rather not incur the cost of an M.S. if possible.

Nobody wants to pay for a degree if they don't have to. But people who are admitted to funded PhD programs have demonstrated that they have the potential to succeed in graduate coursework and research: they have high grades from undergrad, they have taken a lot of preparatory classes and are ready for grad-level courses, they have recommendations from professors who had very positive things to say about their abilities. (hapa, that's something you haven't mentioned yet: who do you plan to get references from and what will they say?) If you are weak on these things, then you shouldn't expect to be able to get into a funded program from the get-go. You have to prove yourself and you don't have the privilege of having that experience on someone else's dime (at least for the first year or two). I think you need to swallow your pride and consider that your most likely path to a statistics PhD will involve an unfunded MS to start with.

 

Finally, regarding this, just want to make sure your expectations of what your work experience will and won't do for you are reasonable:

I'm hoping my work skills will help me offset my lack of formal education as I'm considered on the fast track in the company, I've applied basic statistics in a real setting, and I know how to apply technical knowledge to practical problems, which to me is what lies at the heart of statistics.

I started my program at 27, before that had a job where I did a ton of programming/database manipulation/basic statistics, lots of thinking carefully about how to get useful results from whatever data we had. I would say the degree to which my work experience has helped me in my program has been lower than I hoped. My research interests came out of the domain of my previous work and got me my RA project (and eventual dissertation hopefully?), and knowing how to deal with annoying coding/data problems has certainly saved me some time solving those issues relative to someone who hasn't experienced them before. However, none of this was preparatory for the coursework (years away from doing long problem sets and taking timed exams have been a detriment, actually) or in the main work of pulling the statistical theory together to publish papers and write my dissertation. It might become more helpful when I do the consulting requirement, but overall, I'd say the kind of work experience we have had provides only a mild benefit in statistics PhD programs.

[Hapa]

Thanks all for the replies. I'm far better at disciplining myself than I was during undergrad. My GPA during undergrad was affected slightly because I did sports in college (I rowed Crew for 2 years. Waking up at 4AM 6-7 days a week is not conducive to good grades). I've also done enough partying to last me a lifetime....

 

Realistically, I might do a M.S. at a nearby college than hopefully to transfer to the college I'm currently eyeing for a Phd.

 

Interesting observation.If I went for an MBA I'd have a far better shot at higher tier schools than for Stats due to work experience. I have a lot of colleagues at work with graduate degrees from top tier schools (Primarily MBAs) and every single one thinks I would have a good shot at a lower top tier school (#20-50). Crazy how grad school differs by discipline.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Hapa

[Hapa]

Wine in coffee cups: 

I appreciate the honest responses. I'm not above swallowing my pride, hence me asking what my realistic chances are and asking for advice. I'm just listing reasons why I want a Phd (I didn't write it but they're in order of importance to me). Whether or not they're feasible or not is a different matter. I get the feeling that most people 

 

As I wrote before, I'm planning to take classes at the local community college to get my math up to the required level and have considered doing some sort of post-bachelors program if it would help. I was planning to get references from the professors where I'll be making up my math classes before even applying.

 

I get that I'm underqualified, I really do. I get the feeling from some of the responses here that I'm acting like I can get into a Phd problem no sweat. I'd like to emphasize that I created this thread to help me learn from everyone here, who are far more qualified than me, and to plan my decisions accordingly. Will it take me longer to get my Phd (if I ever do) than most? Yes. Will it cost me more? Most likely. But as I said earlier, I've got plenty of time and effort I'm willing to put in. I've learned my lessons from my youth and am actively working to make up for it. 

[statisticsfall2014]

It does appear you should maybe re-think whether a PHD in statistics is the right decision for you. It seems your interests lie more in business, finance, and economics. 

[Hapa]

statisticsfall2014

I've put some thought into this as well, because most people have asked me about getting an MBA. But the work that I do? While interesting, it's just not THAT interesting. I fell into my current role primarily because that's where the opportunity and experience was. I didn't want to get pigeonholed or more bored than I already was (I'm a practical person). Working with the top management and executives at my company just makes me realize that business and what I do is mostly BS. It's all process and politics driven where all action is driven by a few people at the very top. 

 

I'd like to explore the actual theory behind how statistics works and really understand the math behind it. I was told to use a chi test at work to determine the statistical significance of some metrics. It told me what I wanted and I realized that I didn't even truly comprehend how it worked. I get what it's supposed to do and how I'm supposed to apply it...but not really. It bothers me a lot and I'd like to learn exactly how and why things like that work.

 

Maybe I will end up just doing an M.S., we'll see. I'm sure I'll learn more as I speak to those who know better than me. Why would you say my interest lie more in business/finance/economics? I did choose Finance as a major in college, but that was because it was the most math oriented business discipline there was and business was the most practical field I could think of at the time (I had no idea what I wanted to do when I entered college). I would say that my interests now are a truer representation than the choices I made when I was young because now that I have a job and money, I can actually focus more on things I'm passionate about.

[statisticsfall2014]

Great, well if it is something you want to pursue, then I would go for it. I just said that because you mentioned the MBA thing. You should try to enroll in a "Real Analysis" class. When I was working that was the one class my professor told me to take in a year off, and I think mathematically that's about the level you'd need to be at in statistics grad school.