Maybe I am just whining... But I want to quit already...

[dumpling]

Last year I was just anxious waiting for my application results.  Now I finally got into the dream program I always wanted to join.  I was really happy at first.  I've worked in i-banking for years, always feel it's against my guts and pure evil, and going back to school and do science was noble and interlectually satisfying.

 

There are ups and downs in grad school, intense coursework and teaching, but I can bear with that.  The last straw that really got me thinking was when I talked to a professor whose work I am really interested, and was potentially thinking about working with him in the future.  We talked twice, both times he accused me of not prepared at all and poorly communicated with him.  Every time I try to say something, he just shuts me up and continue talking.  I went to see him to talking about some rec letters for outside seminar, but he ignores my request and talks about something else.

 

And he's not alone.  I've only been here less than a year, already seen a bunch of 'weird' professors that I just can't communicate with.  I start to feel that academia is full of people like that.  Especially people that do great work, but crush you completely every time they speak with you.

 

Now I am panicked coz I already decided I don't like working, thot it's beneath me.  But then, I am not adaptable for grad school either.  Where do I put myself then...

 

I am worried that I would find out grad school is not for me until a couple years later, so maybe I should stop and go back to do shxtty work.  Dreams are just too luxurious.  But then, a year ago, I tried so hard to get in... 

 

[fuzzylogician]

... 

 

Now I am panicked coz I already decided I don't like working, thot it's beneath me.  But then, I am not adaptable for grad school either.  Where do I put myself then...

 

I am worried that I would find out grad school is not for me until a couple years later, so maybe I should stop and go back to do shxtty work.  Dreams are just too luxurious.  But then, a year ago, I tried so hard to get in... 

 

That first bit I'm just going to ignore and assume you're just upset right now. Look, grad school is not for everyone and it may not be for you. Finding that out sooner rather than later is good for everyone involved. But leaving school or not leaving school both involve working, so I'd get that out of the equation. Do you think that if you graduate with a degree you won't have to work? Won't have to deal with crazy bosses and pressing deadlines and all the things that sometimes make a work environment less than ideal? Think again. Academia is just like any other job, only with some special quirks that make it even crazier (the tenure process, to name an obvious one). 

 

Anyway, I don't think you are in a position to decide whether or not grad school fits you right now. You're less than one year in and all you've found out is that there are certain professors who you'd hoped to work with who it turns out are not a good match for you in terms of their personalities, even though you like their work (and btw, creeps, people who lack social skills, and straight up obnoxious people can be found in all walks of life and work, not just academia). So, lets take it that these people are not the ones you want as your advisors and potential dissertation committee. Are there others who you do get along with? Broaden your search - By far, I'd prefer someone who I get along with whose research interests differ from mine over someone whose research fits with mine but makes me miserable every time we have a meeting. You need to answer two questions for yourself, and it may require some thinking. First, are you still interested in getting the degree? Getting the degree is a means to an end - namely, getting a job that requires this degree. Are you still hoping to get the same kind of job you wanted before you started school? It's ok if once there, you've realized that you don't actually want to become a professor/research scientist/other. Second, if you do want to get the degree, is the school you are at equipped to support you in getting it? Are there people who you can work with who can be your advisors? Never mind the false starts and bad attempts, but are there some that work? If you answered no to the first question, you may want to consider leaving or (better) try figuring out what you'd have to do to leave with an MA. If you answered yes to the first question, I think you need to start working on figuring out the second question. From the way I read your post, you are not yet in a position to fully answer it. If you can't find a suitable advisor, you may consider leaving and re-applying to a better fitting program, where you'll take your experiences here to help you choose a place with professors who you get along with and can be your advisors. Again, I'd look into what would need to happen in order to leave with an MA. But before doing that, I'd try and make an effort to make this program work, under the assumption that there were good reasons why you chose it and that you just need to step back to see the bigger picture and find them again.

[St Andrews Lynx]

 I've worked in i-banking for years, always feel it's against my guts and pure evil, and going back to school and do science was noble and interlectually satisfying.

...And multinational pharmaceutical & petroleum companies aren't pure evil?! There was a big scandal recently with GSK in China, who were bribing doctors to prescribe their medicines. Meanwhile big chemical companies are spilling their waste into American rivers and oil production often promotes hideous wealth disparity and corruption in developing countries.

 

Not all companies do bad things...but if you are doing science purely because of morals, I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

Regarding the professors. Most of them are fairly blunt individuals. They are busy people who have a lot of meetings to attend, courses to prep and their own students to deal with. As a result, if they think you are unprepared or taking too long to get to your point, they will probably become impatient and express said impatience somehow. To be successful in grad school you have to come up with strategies to communicate with these individuals: you need to brief yourself beforehand, say what you want to say politely and concisely, and respect their social cues (do they look like they are in a rush to be off somewhere?). As Fuzzy said, that's how you deal with people in "work" and academia. It takes time to learn how to do that - but by watching others and being willing, a few false starts with some professors shouldn't mean that you will be forever unable to communicate with any of them.

[dumpling]

I do agree that other than i-banking, otherwise industries could be evil too.  My current PhD major was quite pure though, I doubt it could do harm to people.

 

I've dealt with much more arrogant and impatient people in my previous jobs, I've worked a couple years like I said.  But this is different, I was not unprepared, he doesn't even want to know what I came for and talked about irrelevant topics...  Sometimes I think my work experience actually sets me back in tolerating such people.  For me, at least you need a reason to be blunt.

 

...And multinational pharmaceutical & petroleum companies aren't pure evil?! There was a big scandal recently with GSK in China, who were bribing doctors to prescribe their medicines. Meanwhile big chemical companies are spilling their waste into American rivers and oil production often promotes hideous wealth disparity and corruption in developing countries.

 

Not all companies do bad things...but if you are doing science purely because of morals, I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

Regarding the professors. Most of them are fairly blunt individuals. They are busy people who have a lot of meetings to attend, courses to prep and their own students to deal with. As a result, if they think you are unprepared or taking too long to get to your point, they will probably become impatient and express said impatience somehow. To be successful in grad school you have to come up with strategies to communicate with these individuals: you need to brief yourself beforehand, say what you want to say politely and concisely, and respect their social cues (do they look like they are in a rush to be off somewhere?). As Fuzzy said, that's how you deal with people in "work" and academia. It takes time to learn how to do that - but by watching others and being willing, a few false starts with some professors shouldn't mean that you will be forever unable to communicate with any of them.

[TakeruK]

I agree with a lot of what has already been said. Especially 1) people with weird social behaviours exist in all fields of employment (from fuzzy) and 2) not all corporations are evil and all of academia is good/moral (from St Andrews Lynx)!

 

I don't know what your department is actually like. It does sound like there are a few people that you have not had good encounters with. Every department, if it's large enough, will have at least one or two people like this. It sounds like this person is not your advisor, and I think that's a good thing for you! I'd see it as a positive that you found out that you and this person don't seem to get along very well--avoid working with them! Find someone else who can be a better advisor for you. Every person has different working styles so what works for some might not work for others.

 

Also, I'd say it might be useful to think about this from the other point of view too. Maybe, the prof also thinks your style doesn't mesh well with theirs. I'm not exactly certain, but it almost sounds like you expected to be able to just pick and choose who you want to work with. Matching up advisors and students goes both ways. Don't be discouraged if you find that the person you really want to work with does not feel the same way about you! Like any other relationship, both parties have to get along well for it to work

[victorydance]

Well, how exactly did you prepare for the meetings with the professor?

[Josh70]

I don't think I have ever met anyone like you have described in my department. So no not all people in science act like that. Now of course there are a lot of people in science so will run into a bunch of different people. If it really is so bad you could look at trying to go to a different school and really try and find a place where you would fit in. 

[juilletmercredi]

I do agree that other than i-banking, otherwise industries could be evil too.  My current PhD major was quite pure though, I doubt it could do harm to people.

 

That's probably untrue.  Psychologists could do harmful studies, like the Milgram or Zimbardo experiments.  Historians could write revisionist history that damages a certain ethnic/racial group and creates stereotypes about them.  Computer scientists could engineer some terrible computer/new piece of technology that has harmful effects for us all.  No major/field is "pure"; the problem is not with the science or scholarship itself, but the way in which the science/scholarship is conducted and disseminated/used.

 

But the other thing - playing devil's advocate here...were you unprepared for the meeting?  When you go meet with someone about advisement, often they want to know what your future goals are for your time as a graduate student, projects you might want to work on, and your career goals.  Perhaps the topics he addressed were not irrelevant but you don't know enough yet to know that they were, indeed, relevant.  (No judgment - that's just the nature of being a first-year student.  I've been there; I'm sure most of us have.)

 

So in addition to examining the things others have suggested - deciding whether you really want and need your PhD to do what you want to do, and whether you want to stay in your department or find another - you also perhaps should examine yourself and see if there are habits or practices of your own that could change the way people react to you.

[themmases]

If you're finding that you often can't communicate with different professors in your department, it's very likely that you are part of the problem. I can see from your post that you're probably not picking up this professor's social cues, nor the ones of this board. The good thing about finding problems in yourself is, you can fix them yourself and be happier.

 

If you don't know a professor well, they're probably not a good person to ask for a letter of recommendation yet. That's especially true if they've made it clear that you were annoying them when you did meet them. If someone tells you that they don't like how you prepared for something, you should apologize, ask them to clarify what they do want, and then make sure you do that going forward. If you see yourself collaborating with this person a lot, you should make that clear in your apology, and ask how you can prepare in a way that would make them willing to work with you. You should ask your advisor, grad director, or a professor you have a rapport with already for a letter or for suggestions about whom to ask.

 

It's not appropriate to suggest that grad school isn't work, especially on a grad school forum. Are you suggesting to your professors at all that you don't see your PhD as a job or as real work? You will certainly alienate people if you continue to say that. Much like at a traditional job, you'll ingratiate yourself to others by making yourself useful-- not by trying to force relationships or belittling others' work. If you give this professor some space, work on your approach with others with whom you already have a rapport, and come back later with a clearer idea of why you would make a good collaborator, you might get a better response.

[dumpling]

Thanks!  This is really helpful.  Especially the part says picking advisors are like 'relationships'.  I feel bad about liking someone's work but not able to communicate with them.  But I think you are right, it has to go both ways.  And it's better for me to realize it now than later... 

I agree with a lot of what has already been said. Especially 1) people with weird social behaviours exist in all fields of employment (from fuzzy) and 2) not all corporations are evil and all of academia is good/moral (from St Andrews Lynx)!

 

I don't know what your department is actually like. It does sound like there are a few people that you have not had good encounters with. Every department, if it's large enough, will have at least one or two people like this. It sounds like this person is not your advisor, and I think that's a good thing for you! I'd see it as a positive that you found out that you and this person don't seem to get along very well--avoid working with them! Find someone else who can be a better advisor for you. Every person has different working styles so what works for some might not work for others.

 

Also, I'd say it might be useful to think about this from the other point of view too. Maybe, the prof also thinks your style doesn't mesh well with theirs. I'm not exactly certain, but it almost sounds like you expected to be able to just pick and choose who you want to work with. Matching up advisors and students goes both ways. Don't be discouraged if you find that the person you really want to work with does not feel the same way about you! Like any other relationship, both parties have to get along well for it to work

[danieleWrites]

Have you considered visiting the campus counseling center? I don't mean to imply that you're completely messed up in the head and need serious couch time. I also don't mean to imply that you should find an off-campus counseling center. Campus counseling centers have a lot of information and knowledge about dealing with academic based problems and you have a problem with your department's professorate.

You may or may not be part of the problem (I have no idea), but in terms of odds, there is likely something about how you're communicating with these people that they're reacting to in a negative fashion. I couldn't tell you. The campus counseling folks can, though. A visit or two can help you iron out basic communication issues that you might be having. If any type of relationship is in dire need of couples counseling, it's the grad-professor relationship. I think it should be mandatory or something.

Anyway. That's one avenue that you might find personally helpful.