PhD applications for 10/11 entry (Yale in-particular)

[brithistorian]

Hello, I'm new to this forum so forgive me if this is in the wrong sub-forum or anything.

I was wondering whether anyone could care to enlighten me on applications, admissions requirements et al for the PhD program at Yale as an international student? As I understand it, I'll need to take the GRE exams (the UK system is far easier ), have letters of recommendation, a statement of purpose/research outline, transcripts and a writing sample of a book review (from what it says online).

What I would really like to know is what sort of GRE mark is required? Top mark is 1600 isn't it? Also I'm slightly concerned about "prestige" although this could be a UK thing. I did my BA at a relatively unknown small institution in the UK, let alone abroad and am currently studying for the MA at one of the University of London colleges (it has links with Yale currently). My BA classification would be equivalent to a GPA of 3.2 (minimum/roughly) (would have been higher had it not been for mitigating circumstances through the second & third years) and two of my references would be from well-known academics in their respective fields. My potential PhD topic is quite original, hasn't been studied in detail before and it's a relatively new field which is taken far more seriously in the US than the UK (hence why I'm thinking of heading across the pond ) Also funding and teaching opportunities are that much greater compared to the UK system, especially now the research money requirements have changed for universities (some of the best History departments in the UK haven't been given any research money this year! It's a very bad time to be a potential History doctoral student :shock: )

And now I'm rambling - sorry! Any advice and your own experiences of entry into doctoral programs would be much appreciated

[reallywantcolumbia]

aight --- Application season is officially over! We have our first topic asking about next year...

[geigwm6]

I'm planning on applying for History MA's and PhD's next year. My area of interest in Colonial American. I'm not sure if my grades are good enough. I go to a pretty competitive school and have a 3.2 cum. GPA and a 3.6-3.7 History GPA. I'm really not sure how great my writing sample will be. I just finished it, and it is a very unique topic, but I really have no idea how it will compare in the grand scheme of things.

[reallywantcolumbia]

Well, let me take a stab at it

requirements for most history PhD applications:

GRE scores -- out of a total of 1600. Other people should chime in here, but my impression was that, beyond a certain score, it doesn't really matter. So if you get more than a 1450 or so -- you're fine. If you get less than a 1350, that might be an issue. Either way, it's really something that backs up the rest of your application -- and isn't the defining part of it.

Letters of Recommendation -- generally need three. Harvard lets you send four. Should be from people who have a close knowledge of your work. At least one or two should be from history profs. My impression was that they need to complement each other -- i.e. don't choose three people who will say the same thing about the same stuff (unless it's along the lines of "this was my best student, EVER")

Personal statement/SOP -- very important. basically works as both an intention of study as well as a writing sample. It took me four months to come up with a good enough one. Not supposed to be particularly personal -- basically an academic history with an explanation of what you want to do, why and with whom. Some places (like U of M) require both a Personal statement and an SOP. Then the personal statement is more...umm...personal.

Transcripts -- Of all post-High School classes taken, ever! Sealed, signed etc. Yale doesnt require you to send hard copies -- just upload them onto the online application.

Writing Sample -- This is where Yale gets to be a real pain. They require a book review -- which I personally thought was a pain to write. Most other places generally want a writing sample that is about 20-30pgs. Much better if it's on a historical subject and uses primary sources. Works as both a demonstration of your knowledge of the field, and of your writing skills. I sent a writing sample AND a book review to Yale.

On the other stuff brithistorian mentioned:

prestige of school -- really, I have no idea. If you're doing an MA at a London college associated with Yale I think you should be fine. While also an international, I did my undergrad in the states. That said, I looked at a lot of professor CVs over the last few months. Most professors teaching at top thirty universities/colleges went to the top ten history grad programs. Most of them also went to top 20 undergraduate institutions. Donno what the correlation is.

GPA -- I would say a 3.2 would be on the lower end of applicant pool. But wouldn't cut you out of the running. Again, not sure on this. From what I've heard, the important thing is your history GPA. Though if you did your undergrad in the UK, does that mean you only did history? The additional information section would be the place to talk about those mitigating circumstances. [Also, grades in the UK are generally lower than in the states -- donno how that would change stuff] Same goes for geigwm6. I don't think 3.6-3.7 in history is bad. Again, other people might be able to help. My GPA was 3.68 (overall) and 3.89 (history).

Topic -- This is important. I don't think it matters how 'unusual/unique' your topic is. Obviously, there should be some scope to work in it (e.g. If your topic is the allied offense in Normandy, you're gonna need a REALLY new take on it). What is most important is that there is someone at the institution you are applying to who can work with you. Preferably several someones. You should also have more than a passing acquaintance with it. People can chime in on the importance of this!

Best of luck!

p.s. I applied to Cambridge and the LSE -- and I just want to say, those were AWFUL applications!!

[brithistorian]

GRE scores -- out of a total of 1600. Other people should chime in here, but my impression was that, beyond a certain score, it doesn't really matter. So if you get more than a 1450 or so -- you're fine. If you get less than a 1350, that might be an issue. Either way, it's really something that backs up the rest of your application -- and isn't the defining part of it.

Am glad it's not the defining part of it as haven't studied Maths for 6 years!

Letters of Recommendation -- generally need three. Harvard lets you send four. Should be from people who have a close knowledge of your work. At least one or two should be from history profs. My impression was that they need to complement each other -- i.e. don't choose three people who will say the same thing about the same stuff (unless it's along the lines of "this was my best student, EVER")

Personal statement/SOP -- very important. basically works as both an intention of study as well as a writing sample. It took me four months to come up with a good enough one. Not supposed to be particularly personal -- basically an academic history with an explanation of what you want to do, why and with whom. Some places (like U of M) require both a Personal statement and an SOP. Then the personal statement is more...umm...personal.

Exactly the same as what I've had to do already. Am only asking about 2010 entry as I'm currently waiting on a funding decision. If the decision's no, it's a forced year off and I know I'd have to do the GRE this summer.

Transcripts -- Of all post-High School classes taken, ever! Sealed, signed etc. Yale doesnt require you to send hard copies -- just upload them onto the online application.

So from a UK perspective, does that include exams we do at 16 and then again at 18, plus BA and MA transcripts? (would explain why my current uni asks for A-level certificates for the US exchange programme though)

Writing Sample -- This is where Yale gets to be a real pain. They require a book review -- which I personally thought was a pain to write. Most other places generally want a writing sample that is about 20-30pgs. Much better if it's on a historical subject and uses primary sources. Works as both a demonstration of your knowledge of the field, and of your writing skills. I sent a writing sample AND a book review to Yale.

Am used to writing stuff like that and a piece of work demonstrating research skills would be fine as would have a 10 000 word and a 15 000 word dissertation to choose from.

prestige of school -- really, I have no idea. If you're doing an MA at a London college associated with Yale I think you should be fine. While also an international, I did my undergrad in the states. That said, I looked at a lot of professor CVs over the last few months. Most professors teaching at top thirty universities/colleges went to the top ten history grad programs. Most of them also went to top 20 undergraduate institutions. Donno what the correlation is.

It's a funny world academia - one of my tutors has put down prestige as to why I was rejected from Oxford, over my degree result.

GPA -- I would say a 3.2 would be on the lower end of applicant pool. But wouldn't cut you out of the running. Again, not sure on this. From what I've heard, the important thing is your history GPA. Though if you did your undergrad in the UK, does that mean you only did history? The additional information section would be the place to talk about those mitigating circumstances. [Also, grades in the UK are generally lower than in the states -- donno how that would change stuff] Same goes for geigwm6. I don't think 3.6-3.7 in history is bad. Again, other people might be able to help. My GPA was 3.68 (overall) and 3.89 (history).

I don't know whether it IS a 3.2 though (my knowledge of the GPA extends to 3.7 being equivalent to a first and a 3.2 being around the base line for the 2:1. My actual average was 64/65 and going on the basis of 3.2 = 60 and a 3.7 = 70 (UK classification bands) mine would be a 3.5 ish. I've got a 70(first) for my BA dissertation AND work experience as well.

p.s. I applied to Cambridge and the LSE -- and I just want to say, those were AWFUL applications!!

I did Oxford and the 13 week wait to be rudely told I wasn't going was not fun. Thanks for all your help

[futurePhD]

GRE scores -- out of a total of 1600. Other people should chime in here, but my impression was that, beyond a certain score, it doesn't really matter. So if you get more than a 1450 or so -- you're fine. If you get less than a 1350, that might be an issue. Either way, it's really something that backs up the rest of your application -- and isn't the defining part of it.

You should not be focusing on a total score as much as your verbal score. Admissions committees for history graduate programs are largely going to ignore your math score. I would put most of my energy towards increasing your vocabulary, and not waste much time studying for the math portion. That being said, as the previous poster commented, a great GRE certainly does not guarantee you will get in. I had a 4.0 GPA and a 740 Verbal and received swift rejections from Yale and a few other top 10 programs.

Most of your focus, however, should be on making contact with Profs, and making sure that you have a dynamite writing sample and SOP.

One last piece of advice: I believe the OP mentioned choosing between sending in a 10,000 and 15,000 word writing sample. Nobody is going to read something that monstrous. Either send in a chapter of your thesis, or, even better, send a seminar paper that uses primary sources and has a cogent, tight argument.

Good luck.

[brithistorian]

One last piece of advice: I believe the OP mentioned choosing between sending in a 10,000 and 15,000 word writing sample. Nobody is going to read something that monstrous. Either send in a chapter of your thesis, or, even better, send a seminar paper that uses primary sources and has a cogent, tight argument.

Good luck.

Oh I wouldn't send in that much - I was just saying that I would have something more substantial than a normal essay to send in as a writing sample that documented research and argument.

Saying that, 30 pages which is what someone mentioned is about 8000 words double spaced!

[geigwm6]

Does anyone have any advice for someone like me:

My GPA is not strong (3.2 cum. and 3.6 in History), I don't have strong languages skills (my worst grades are in my Italian classes, and that is the only language I have taken although I will be able to demonstrate *proficiency*). However, my research interests are in Colonial American History/up to 1865 American history, but I know I need at least one. My writing sample is very interesting--a thirty page paper on a very unique topic. Does anyone have any advice for someone like me? Although I go to a top 30 school with rigorous grading, I feel like a very, very mediocre applicant. History is something I love and want to pursue and know that this is not enough, so what should I do?

[reallywantcolumbia]

So from a UK perspective, does that include exams we do at 16 and then again at 18, plus BA and MA transcripts? (would explain why my current uni asks for A-level certificates for the US exchange programme though)

almost certainly not. Just BA and MA. High schools grades only count for undergrad admissions (and I'm so glad that's the case!!).

I don't know whether it IS a 3.2 though (my knowledge of the GPA extends to 3.7 being equivalent to a first and a 3.2 being around the base line for the 2:1. My actual average was 64/65 and going on the basis of 3.2 = 60 and a 3.7 = 70 (UK classification bands) mine would be a 3.5 ish. I've got a 70(first) for my BA dissertation AND work experience as well.

Well -- that really depends -- thanks to that mysterious beast known as 'grade inflation.' At my undergrad -- A+ (very very rare) was 4.33, A was 4.00, A- was 3.67 and B+ was 3.33. The top 15% of the class had GPA's above about 3.7. I would ask the institutions you're applying to.

You should not be focusing on a total score as much as your verbal score. Admissions committees for history graduate programs are largely going to ignore your math score.

true -- but I would urge you not to completely bomb your Math section

And geigwm6 raises the important point about languages -- which I had completely forgotten about!

The rule of thumb here seems to be that you need two non-English languages for History PhD work. While you don't necessarily need to show proficiency in both on entering the program, it's probably best that you demonstrate a serious attempt. Most places require you to exhibit proficiency in one language (via a translation test) on admission. Some of this also has to do with the field/area you're studying. Greek, Roman, ancient history can require 3, 4 or even 5 languages! If you're planning to do Japanese history -- Japanese and Chinese would be useful, Afrikaans less so. For some fields the language requirement is just that -- an administrative hurdle that the department has put into place. My future advisers told me not to worry about it and just get through the language exams so that I didn't have to stress on that. Ask around on this.

The important exception is American history. Again, this differs from place to place, but the norm is that you need at least one non-English language. What that language is, would probably depend on what period you're looking at.

my research interests are in Colonial American History/up to 1865 American history

Off the top of my head I would say you would need French. But hey, I'm not an Americanist! Italian might be useful if you're doing migration history -- or something along those lines. From the forums it seems like the default language for most Americanists is Spanish (with some French). You may be able to get away with a statistics course as a replacement, but I donno. It will certainly hurt your admissions chances if you can't show some kind of proficiency in some language. The general rule of thumb is -- the more languages, the better.

Most people I know who feel like they want to eventually do a PhD, but don't feel like they have the languages/grades/writing sample they need, go in for MA programs. That way you get more primary source research, a chance to up your grades, more LoR's, and a chance to do more language training. Academia is a brutal world right now, and it's hard enough getting a job if you go to a top place (top 10). I would just think about that.

Still, best of luck on the apps! I'm glad I'm done with them.....

[feisty]

I wouldn't underestimate the importance of research interests, as laid out in the SOP.

I got into 1 school of the 7 I applied to, and I think I got in because my interests matched eerily (down to minutiae) with my potential advisors', which I didn't learn until my visit. Fatefully, a lot of what they had been working on hadn't even been published/finished yet, and that happened to be a lot of the same topics I was working on as an undergrad, and talked about in my SOP.

Otherwise I'm almost positive, based on my undergrad stats, I would be 0/7 (this year, at least, I think in more prosperous years I would have done better).

[brithistorian]

Thanks all - the whole GPA/GRE/everything else that they require is rather confusing. I thought the Brit system was bad but I won't have to worry if I get funding. I'll just enjoy the possibility of a year at Yale without even having to apply directly to the uni

[thepoorstockinger]

Why Yale?

[brithistorian]

Why Yale?

Because they've got an entire archive relating to my proposed thesis, a supervisor who's highly prominent in the field, it's on the East Coast and the funding's good

[purplepepper]

just a quick post here. I was accepted to 2 ivies including yale so my advice is:

Don't worry about scores. Worry about the qualitative aspects. letters of recommendation are probably one of the most important things, if not the most important, followed by your statement.

for the GRE, aim for anywhere above the 90th percentile in verbal, math anywhere above 60th percentile. But really GREs and GPAs are really secondary to the qualitative aspects of the application.

[brithistorian]

just a quick post here. I was accepted to 2 ivies including yale so my advice is:

Don't worry about scores. Worry about the qualitative aspects. letters of recommendation are probably one of the most important things, if not the most important, followed by your statement.

for the GRE, aim for anywhere above the 90th percentile in verbal, math anywhere above 60th percentile. But really GREs and GPAs are really secondary to the qualitative aspects of the application.

Thank you I'll have a ponder as I've not done anything like verbal reasoning or maths since I left school!

[geigwm6]

so worst case for my grades would be like 3.0-3.1 cumulative 3.4-3.5 history.

i test very well and will have great LoR's and i'm working very hard on my writing sample/SoP

Could I get into a mid-level PhD program like George Washington, UNC Greensboro, American University?

[misterpat]

so worst case for my grades would be like 3.0-3.1 cumulative 3.4-3.5 history.

i test very well and will have great LoR's and i'm working very hard on my writing sample/SoP

Could I get into a mid-level PhD program like George Washington, UNC Greensboro, American University?

GW is mid-level. American could arguably be called that, too. But UNC-G isn't even top 100. You'd be totally, totally fucked with a PhD from there, unless you're a history wunderkind, in which case why would you be attending UNC-G? I imagine an MA from there might be a nice stepping stone. But they don't provide placement info on their dept's site, which makes one think that their placement isn't worth talking about.

[geigwm6]

GW is mid-level. American could arguably be called that, too. But UNC-G isn't even top 100. You'd be totally, totally fucked with a PhD from there, unless you're a history wunderkind, in which case why would you be attending UNC-G? I imagine an MA from there might be a nice stepping stone. But they don't provide placement info on their dept's site, which makes one think that their placement isn't worth talking about.

So is GWU a reasonable school for me to get into for a PhD? I want to live in Washington, DC, they have a few great faculty in my field, but while the qualitative aspects of my application will be fine, my GPA will be so mediocre (although i do go to a very rigorous school).

[misterpat]

That sort of thing is impossible to predict. We have at least one person admitted to GW: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=17880 Perhaps you can compare stats with them.

Don't put all your history eggs in the GW basket, though. Spread your app around. You never know, you might be able to overcome your GPA at a school higher than GW. On the other hand, GW might not even take you with that GPA. Honestly, I have almost a 3.6 and felt like I had to apologize for my grades in e-mails to professors. You're competing with a lot of 3.8-4.0s for any doctoral program. Luckily, grades aren't everything; but they are an easy way to weed applicants out of the "maybe" pile.

[synthla]

Don't put all your history eggs in the GW basket, though. Spread your app around. You never know, you might be able to overcome your GPA at a school higher than GW. On the other hand, GW might not even take you with that GPA. Honestly, I have almost a 3.6 and felt like I had to apologize for my grades in e-mails to professors. You're competing with a lot of 3.8-4.0s for any doctoral program. Luckily, grades aren't everything; but they are an easy way to weed applicants out of the "maybe" pile.

I agree - my undergrad GPA was in the same range and my law school GPA was even lower (though law school grades are more rigourously curved to produce a B/B+ average compared to most traditional graduate programs); I didn't spend anytime trying to explain it though because I had no compelling justification - in undergrad I was just not on the ball the first two years in terms of prioritizing grades, and in law school I was just surrounded by a bunch of very intelligent people and probably deserved what I got.

[StrangeLight]

above a certain level, GPA truly does not matter that much. i have a 4.0 in my major and a 3.74 overall, and i only got into programs where my interests (which are laughably obscure) matched with the faculty's strengths. places where fit was not immediately obvious said no, and yet many students were accepted to those programs with lower GPAs and GRE scores than mine.

if GW has a professor that studies roughly what you study (i.e. 20th century southeast asian cultural history) and the department overall has a strength in your general area of interest (i.e. modern asian history), then a 3.0 overall and a 3.5 history GPA won't hurt you much at all, especially if you have strong LoRs, GRE scores, writing samples, and SoPs.

[geigwm6]

above a certain level, GPA truly does not matter that much. i have a 4.0 in my major and a 3.74 overall, and i only got into programs where my interests (which are laughably obscure) matched with the faculty's strengths. places where fit was not immediately obvious said no, and yet many students were accepted to those programs with lower GPAs and GRE scores than mine.

if GW has a professor that studies roughly what you study (i.e. 20th century southeast asian cultural history) and the department overall has a strength in your general area of interest (i.e. modern asian history), then a 3.0 overall and a 3.5 history GPA won't hurt you much at all, especially if you have strong LoRs, GRE scores, writing samples, and SoPs.

Well I am an early American historian, but I like American Indian studies too, so I am going to market myself as an American Indian Historian. I wrote my undergraduate research thesis on American Indians, so I hope that it gives me some qualification.

[reallywantcolumbia]

so I am going to market myself as an American Indian Historian.

From the discussion on the 'rankings' thread -- that would be a very good move. I know that my LAC tried to have a search for an American Indian Historian and had a really hard time finding people. There is always a dearth of people to fill those jobs -- hence, good career prospects.

[TMP]

From the discussion on the 'rankings' thread -- that would be a very good move. I know that my LAC tried to have a search for an American Indian Historian and had a really hard time finding people. There is always a dearth of people to fill those jobs -- hence, good career prospects.

First, the PhD programs will want to know what's your geographical focus/major field, then move onto sub-fields. There, they'll decide what sub-fields they want to have for that year. You'll be competing with lots of other U.S. history people so you'll definitely need some people in the department doing U.S. West to help support your application.

I'm specializing in an ethnic group in the United States as well but I am finding it's more important to find a department fit, not just a particular faculty member. You want to make sure you have your resources and you're not solely relying on one person to help you out. I mean, what if that only historian specializing in American Indian leaves and doesn't take you? You still need support from other faculty members to help you finish your dissertation.