Summer Plan

[Flux2]

Hi, I'm currently a junior and i'm in a dilemma on what to do.

Today, my research adviosr asked me whether I would like to conduct a research project of my own during the summer.

He said he will discuss about the specifics of the topic after I decide whether I'll stay full(3months) or just one month because an more advanced project will be given dependent on the time I could contribute. So I just know generally what the topic is about, and I'm quite interested.

 

Yet, currently, I need one more person to write me a recommendation letter later for grad school, so I was actually planning to do research in a different institute. Not an intern or anything so I'm not sure what I could get out of it during the 3months, but I was going to continue on doing it the summer after this and until I apply for grad school so I can get a solid 3rd LOR.

 

And again, I don't have a paper or anything so this offer is kind of enticing.

I'm planning to apply to grad school after graduation which is Fall of 2015.

So I was wondering what are things I should consider before I decide and what would you guys do if you were in a situation like me.

 

Research+taking a course or research at a different institute?

 

Thank you!

[SciencePerson101]

research at a different place. You need at least 2 letters from professors you worked with to be competitive. Chances are you will not get a paper from the summer. Of course you can work with your PI the whole year next year and get something out of it.

[bsharpe269]

What is the research opportunity at the other institute? Do you already have something lined up?

[MackF]

research at a different place. You need at least 2 letters from professors you worked with to be competitive. Chances are you will not get a paper from the summer. Of course you can work with your PI the whole year next year and get something out of it.

 

I'm going to disagree with this, if only marginally.  My letters of rec were from a course professor in biology, a professor that I had taken 4 classes with in economics (my minor), and one from my research advisor.  I don't think you need to have done research in 2 separate labs to be competitive.  Perhaps for the very top programs, but generally speaking I don't think so.  Of course more research experience is always better, but you should do the research that you feel you will enjoy the most.

[Vene]

I'm going to disagree with this, if only marginally.  My letters of rec were from a course professor in biology, a professor that I had taken 4 classes with in economics (my minor), and one from my research advisor.  I don't think you need to have done research in 2 separate labs to be competitive.  Perhaps for the very top programs, but generally speaking I don't think so.  Of course more research experience is always better, but you should do the research that you feel you will enjoy the most.

Adding to this, I had two letters from professors and one from a supervisor in industry. I did research under only one of the professors, not both. Granted, I did do research under the supervisor. But I would imagine that doing 2 years of research under the same professor is just as good as doing 1 year of research each under two different professors, if not better.

[SciencePerson101]

I'm going to disagree with this, if only marginally. My letters of rec were from a course professor in biology, a professor that I had taken 4 classes with in economics (my minor), and one from my research advisor. I don't think you need to have done research in 2 separate labs to be competitive. Perhaps for the very top programs, but generally speaking I don't think so. Of course more research experience is always better, but you should do the research that you feel you will enjoy the most.

As if I care what you think I got into harvard, yale, stanford .etc. so save it.

Edited April 9, 2014 by SciencePerson101

[biotechie]

research at a different place. You need at least 2 letters from professors you worked with to be competitive. Chances are you will not get a paper from the summer. Of course you can work with your PI the whole year next year and get something out of it.

 

I will also marginally disagree that you really need to go somewhere else (as a first year who is currently prepping for quals and is in the midst of grant applications). I stayed on campus. My letters of rec were from a professor I took a course from and helped with a small project, my co-PIs from my lab (which really should have counted as one PI + one collaborator), and an administrator at my undergrad (who vouched for my student mentorship).

 

If you can research and gain strong skills within the lab you're in, why can't you work hard this summer and stay in the lab during the school year? I went into PhD applications with 4 years undergrad research experience, plus 2 years masters. I stayed on for a masters because I had a really cool mouse model I didn't want to leave. Yes, I worked in two different laboratories, but the first was out of field. The things that made me stand out on my applications were internal research awards that I won, mentoring younger undergraduates, and the fact that I learned so many different techniques to the point where I can apply them in any laboratory without needing to look up the information. You don't need to have a publication to get into graduate school. That's actually a requirement to GRADUATE graduate school! Yes, it would look nice, but you mostly just need to demonstrate that you're passionate about research though your application materials and letters of recommendation. You also have to realize that sometimes papers aren't published for years after your research experience. The research I did as an undergrad 4 years ago is just now getting sent to the presses.

 

You learn some things with a year straight of research experience (or 5, in my case) in a single lab that you're not going to get skipping around from place to place all the time. Techniques like qPCR can be learned anywhere, but things like primary cell isolation and culture take some time and dedication that you can't get in only 3 months, and these are skill types that will make you stand out. There is also a sort of Zen to research. You may be trying to do something 20 times in what you think is exactly the same way, and then like magic, you learn and you don't know what is different. That comes with experience. See if your potential PI would let you stay on during the school year if at all possible. If you can work for the three months, then the school year AND collaborate with another lab group, that can be just as powerful as an external research experience, and you'll be able to get a letter of rec. They want applicants who can DO science... showing you can work in the lab well and collaborate are two huge things that are going to give you some points. Add some small internal or external research dollars that you obtain to a decent GPA and GRE, and you're golden.

 

That isn't to say that external research experiences don't have their merits; you can spend time in a high profile lab, which can be a big deal. From experience, though, students who only do REUs in the summers with little or no other lab experience come into graduate school with a much narrower view and understanding of research than students who work in a laboratory for a year or more and actually get their feet dug into a project. Those students see more of what goes into the project, and they may actually go from troubleshooting to completion of a small project. REUs rarely complete a whole aim of a PI's research grant, but in a year, you could have a chance at it.

 

Please don't do things only to pad your resume. Make sure you're getting relevant skills and experience out of it, and not just a letter of rec. With all of this, I think it comes down to two choices:

1. You can stay at your PI's lab over the summer, work your butt off, and try to stay in the lab in the fall and collaborate with another lab. Try to take a relevant course like a paper/journal course in an area you're interested in or a good stats course.

2. Do a summer research experience elsewhere (which can be expensive if it isn't funded!).

 

Please feel free to message me if you would like, Flux.

[kimmibeans]

As if I care what you think I got into harvard, yale, stanford .etc. so save it.

Dude, chill out. There is no reason to be an ass on here especially since the focus of this conversation is not you, but Flux1100 asking for advice. Good for you on getting into those schools, but unless you are on the admissions committee at those schools your point is irrelevant to the current conversation.

 

Flux1100, I think that unless you already have something lined up for the summer you should take your professor up on his offer. REUs are extremely competitive and it is difficult to find a volunteer position in an external lab unless you know someone. However, if you are able to get an external offer, I recommend taking it. Different labs use different techniques and skills and there is always something to learn from the experience.

 

Your LORs should be from people that know you well and can vouch for your skills, so keep that in mind. If you still need one more LOR, ask a professor that had and like if you can be a TA for them next semester or over the summer.

 

No matter what you decide, good luck! I hope it all works out in the end!

[SciencePerson101]

Of course a person like you who got rejected and waitlisted from 3rd tier schools are more knowledgable than me. LMAO

Edited April 9, 2014 by SciencePerson101

[bsharpe269]

Of course a person like you who got rejected and waitlisted from 3rd tier schools are more knowledgable than me. LMAO

 

This isnt a competition... this is an advice forum. I am pretty sure that the OP wanted multiple opinions, not just yours.

 

Getting into "Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc" really doesnt mean much... in my subfield those are some of the easier programs to get into because they don't have most of the top professors.

 

To the OP, you don't need to work with 2 different people to be competitive, you just need to convince the programs that you will be a top researcher. If you work only in 1 lab, that is not a problem at all! In that case, you would want an amazing letter from that 1 PI. A good wont cut it here, you need the professor to say that you are one of the top students that he has worked with. Then you'd want your other letters to come from professors who know that you will make a good researcher as well, based on their interactions for you. For example, one of my additonal letters will come from a professor who taught me one semester and I got the top grade in his class. He does research in a different but similar area to me so I spoken with him about his research multiple times and asked for advice on articles to read to get a better understanding of his area. Even though I didn't work for him, he can comment on my interest in research and future success. These sorts of letters are great too, as long as you have at least one from a PI. If you do go for the second research opportunity, then that is fine too! Keep in mind though that burning bridges with your current PI would be absolutely detrimental to your application. If you think that he is fine with you experiencing something else though then great! Either way, learning more through research should be your goal right now and it sounds like you will do that either way this summer.

[spaceimmunology]

That isn't to say that external research experiences don't have their merits; you can spend time in a high profile lab, which can be a big deal. From experience, though, students who only do REUs in the summers with little or no other lab experience come into graduate school with a much narrower view and understanding of research than students who work in a laboratory for a year or more and actually get their feet dug into a project. Those students see more of what goes into the project, and they may actually go from troubleshooting to completion of a small project. REUs rarely complete a whole aim of a PI's research grant, but in a year, you could have a chance at it.

 

Some really good insight here. I've done quite a number of summer experiences in different labs before working as a tech for 2 years in my current lab. Since I didn't really interact with professors at my undergrad, it was nice to have a line up of PIs that I worked under to write LORs for me. What biotechie says about the limitations of REU type experiences is very true. A summer is just enough time to get comfortable doing a few techniques, but not nearly enough to grasp the complexity of a new project or understand it in the context of an evolving field. Going into applications and especially interviews having a year or two working on a project is much more useful in appearing intelligent and ground in reality, you'll be able to tell a story and get the people you're talking to engaged in the details of your project and science as a field.

 

That being said there are advantages of looking to shorter experiences as well, that go beyond additional LORs. I think the most important one for me was that I got to experience a ton of different science, including cancer signaling, cell death, neuro imaging, and epigenetics. I think this breadth of experience has helped me a lot in terms of guiding my interests, building diverse skill sets, and thinking about problems from different angles. Working in other labs and at other institutions will also help you get a sense of different research settings and lab cultures and will help you discover what you like. In that sense, REUs are somewhat like a rotation, and can be instructive for learning about yourself and where you fit. 

 

So, I think that if you could easily put a summer experience in without jeopardizing your relationship with your current PI and also continue working with your current PI during the school year that would be the best option. But barring that, you'll learn more from a single long experience than two short ones.

[Vene]

As if I care what you think I got into harvard, yale, stanford .etc. so save it.

Funny thing, I've worked in industry, it's not the Harvard, Yale, and Stanford folks who are the best researchers. In fact, the best scientist where I worked (a rapidly growing Fortune 500, btw, not some small start up) got his PhD at North Dakota State University. Edited April 9, 2014 by Vene

[fuzzylogician]

Of course a person like you who got rejected and waitlisted from 3rd tier schools are more knowledgable than me. LMAO

 

This is rude and uncalled for. If you do it again, you'll get suspended. If you have nothing helpful to say, don't say anything at all. 

[MackF]

As if I care what you think I got into harvard, yale, stanford .etc. so save it.

 

I'm glad you're throwing a temper tantrum on a forum designed to help prospective grad students.  I'm happy for you that you got in where you wanted to go, so did I.  All I did was add some constructive thoughts to your post, so maybe you should take a step back and realize how lucky you are to be in a position to offer advice to other prospective grads.  That attitude won't get you far in life, and considering you will be subordinate to a PI for the next five years, you should change it quick.  Best of luck to you in your graduate studies.

[SciencePerson102]

As if I care what you think I got into harvard, yale, stanford .etc. so save it.

  

Of course a person like you who got rejected and waitlisted from 3rd tier schools are more knowledgable than me. LMAO

I can't decide what I admire most about you. Probably it's your humility.

[Flux2]

Thank you guys for your response!

I decided to stay on my home institute hopefully everything turns out good.

[Dedi]

My advice (even though you've already decided) is to consider the amount of independence you have with the research project. Will you be creating the methodology? Will you be writing the proposal? Will you analyze and interpret the results? Getting a paper published in a prestigious journal wouldn't be the point, but rather the experience that can be added to the SOP (which I believe is still important). I feel that you would probably have more independence at your home institution, so I don't need to convince you otherwise.