Looking for Advice on PhD Statistics Programs

[OneOfAKind]

Hello all,

 

I’m a long-time lurker of this forum in the need of some advice. I’ve read much of the excellent advice given to others and hope that someone here can help me out as well. I would like to get a PhD in statistics and then go into industry. However, the college I attend does not typically send students to graduate school in math, so I am completely on my own when it comes to applying. I’ve also never taken any graduate level math classes nor done any research with a professor. This means that I have absolutely no idea what area of research I’m interested in. Hence, I am a bit lost when it comes to deciding which schools I should be applying to. I know I want a school that focuses on applied statistics and that has strong ties to industry, but not much else. I’d also prefer to stay in the Northeast, but am willing to relocate if the school is ranked highly enough.

 

Another thing I was wondering about is whether I can get into a PhD program just yet. I was considering going for a MS first and then for a PhD. My LORs will be good, but my professors are not well-known. I’m also not quite sure what to write in my SOP. I know it doesn’t matter much for admissions, but I’ve heard that I’m not supposed to mention that I want to go into industry, and being that I’ve never done any research, I don’t have any research interests to talk about (although I will be doing a senior thesis next year on a yet to be determined topic that I will probably be able to expound on). A MS program would negate both of these issues, but if I can get into a PhD program with my current stats, I’d much prefer to save time and go straight to a PhD program.

 

I’m putting my profile below, and if someone could please help me out here, I’d really appreciate it. Thank you in advance!

 

Undergrad Institution: small unknown private college

Major: Mathematics

Minor: Finance

GPA: 3.9+

Type of Student: DWF

 

GRE General Test: haven’t taken yet

GRE Subject Test in Mathematics: haven’t taken yet

 

Math Classes: 3 semesters calculus, 2 semesters probability, differential equations, operations research, biostatistics, time series and regression analysis, linear algebra, finite mathematics, financial mathematics, actuarial mathematics, senior thesis

 

Research Experience: senior thesis

Pertinent Activities or Jobs: president of college math society

Letters of Recommendation: 3 math professors, including the deputy chairman of the math department. 2 strong, 1 ok. None of the professors are well-known.

Any Miscellaneous Points that Might Help: 2 actuarial summer internships

 

To reiterate my questions:

 

1.       Do I have a chance of acceptance into a PhD program, or should I go for a MS first?

2.       What programs should I be applying to (preferably in the Northeast)?

3.       What tier/rank of programs should I be considering?

4.       Can I mention my interest in industry in my SOP?

5.       Any other advice or thoughts on my situation would be appreciated.

 

Thank you!

Edited April 9, 2014 by OneOfAKind

[Stat Assistant Professor]

Is there any way you can get a third strong letter of recommendation? For domestic applicants, it seems as though the lower ranked or less well-known your institution, the more the letters of recommendation will be weighed. Additionally, a good score on the math subject GRE (let's say 70+ percentile) could help to mitigate the issue of adcoms being unfamiliar with the level of rigor of your undergrad. That said: this exam can be pretty challenging and requires a lot of studying, and you seem to be missing quite a few of the topics that are tested on the exam (real analysis, abstract algebra, advanced linear algebra).

 

Additionally, I think you would have a hard time getting into a statistics PhD program given your current status unless you take a real analysis class (and perhaps a few more proof-based math classes). I've personally found that for pure stats programs, the depth of advanced mathematics taken is more important than the amount of statistics you've taken... especially since the first two years of classes in grad school will be VERY theoretical  (after that, you could choose to do a dissertation in a heavily applied area, but you still have to take a bunch of classes on proofs/theory and pass qualifying exams on theory before you go do that). So you certainly must take real analysis, and apart from that, it might be helpful to take some other rigorous proof-based classes to show you can handle mathematical proofs.

 

Based on your coursework, I think getting a Master's first would be most beneficial for you. That said, you may have much more luck with biostatistics than with stats -- it seems your profile may play a lot better to biostats. Have you thought about that?

 

EDIT: For the SOP, just mention why you want to study statistics and mention a few areas of it that interest you. You say you've taken a time series class before -- so if MCMC, stochastic processes, etc. are things that sound cool, you could talk about those possibly being areas you want to explore.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Applied Math to Stat

[probstats]

Perhaps some faculty or applicants other than Applied Math to Stat should weigh in on this. For one thing, I completely disagree with the statement "you would have a hard time getting into a statistics PhD program given your current status unless you take a real analysis class." While I took visits this year to several top 10 stats programs I found that SEVERAL accepted applicants who had not taken a real analysis course before. Incoming Ph.D. students come from many different backgrounds and programs will accommodate the students they admit, which includes enrolling the less prepared ones in the necessary prerequisites. 

[Stat Assistant Professor]

Perhaps some faculty or applicants other than Applied Math to Stat should weigh in on this. For one thing, I completely disagree with the statement "you would have a hard time getting into a statistics PhD program given your current status unless you take a real analysis class." While I took visits this year to several top 10 stats programs I found that SEVERAL accepted applicants who had not taken a real analysis course before. Incoming Ph.D. students come from many different backgrounds and programs will accommodate the students they admit, which includes enrolling the less prepared ones in the necessary prerequisites. 

 

Hmmm, I did not know that this was the case. I was led to believe that real analysis was heavily encouraged from previous posts (e.g. , and I believe biostat_prof has said the same thing in other posts -- IIRC, the phrasing was that the application might be thrown out if advanced Calculus/real analysis was not on the transcript). And when I started a Masters program just under four years ago, I was also told that if I eventually wanted to do a PhD in applied math/stat, I should take analysis.  So it still seems as though it is "strongly encouraged" if not necessary.

[Stat Assistant Professor]

... though I could definitely see a stats dept being willing to admit someone with a degree in physics, CS, economics, or engineering who has demonstrable quantitative skills but who lacks real analysis (and they just take it their first year in the PhD program).

 

However, this prospective applicant is getting a mathematics degree, and the adcom may question the rigor of the math program if it doesn't require analysis to graduate. I could be totally wrong though. I agree, a stats faculty member should weigh in on the relative importance of having analysis on the transcript.

[ppham27]

For top 10 programs, it's probably a bit of a long shot. Perhaps I'm just jaded from my experience but my stats:

• Math major from a top 10 undergrad with 3.72 GPA
• Perfect 170 on quant of the general GRE and a respectable 164 on the verbal
• 800 (81%+) on the Math subject test GRE
• Have a bit of research experience with one publication as second author and a senior thesis

I was rejected across the board and will probably be attending a Masters program. I hate to play the race card card but being an Asian male didn't help my cause. Being DWF may be helpful, but it's far from a free pass: you'll still need to be qualified.

[StatPhD2014]

For top 10 programs, it's probably a bit of a long shot. Perhaps I'm just jaded from my experience but my stats:

• Math major from a top 10 undergrad with 3.72 GPA
• Perfect 170 on quant of the general GRE and a respectable 164 on the verbal
• 800 (81%+) on the Math subject test GRE
• Have a bit of research experience with one publication as second author and a senior thesis

I was rejected across the board and will probably be attending a Masters program. I hate to play the race card card but being an Asian male didn't help my cause. Being DWF may be helpful, but it's far from a free pass: you'll still need to be qualified.

Did you apply for Math or Stat PhD programs?

[ppham27]

Did you apply for Math or Stat PhD programs?

I applied to Applied Math or Stat PhD depending on the school.

[biostat_prof]

With those credentials my guess is that you will be accepted somewhere. I hate to say it, but being female helps quite a bit when you're applying to stat departments (this is much less true in biostatistics). That said, as other posters have stated, you really do need to take analysis (preferably a year-long course) and perhaps an advanced linear algebra class. It's hard to say where to apply without knowing your full profile. If you get A's in analysis, do well on the GRE, and get a third stronger letter, you will be competitive almost everywhere. If you don't do all of these three things, then it becomes increasingly more challenging. Good luck.

[cyberwulf]

For top 10 programs, it's probably a bit of a long shot. Perhaps I'm just jaded from my experience but my stats:

• Math major from a top 10 undergrad with 3.72 GPA
• Perfect 170 on quant of the general GRE and a respectable 164 on the verbal
• 800 (81%+) on the Math subject test GRE
• Have a bit of research experience with one publication as second author and a senior thesis

I was rejected across the board and will probably be attending a Masters program. I hate to play the race card card but being an Asian male didn't help my cause. Being DWF may be helpful, but it's far from a free pass: you'll still need to be qualified.

 

This surprises me, and almost has to be the result of either something you're not revealing here or a poor letter of recommendation. The stat pool is deep, but it's not so deep that places like Washington and Carnegie Mellon are regularly passing on students with 3.7+ GPAs in math from elite schools.

[ppham27]

This surprises me, and almost has to be the result of either something you're not revealing here or a poor letter of recommendation. The stat pool is deep, but it's not so deep that places like Washington and Carnegie Mellon are regularly passing on students with 3.7+ GPAs in math from elite schools.

To be honest, I understand the decisions made. My recs were good but not great. The main weakness in my application was a poor grade in Analysis, I suspect, and a general lack of grad-level classes. My overall math GPA was 3.8, but I guess it wasn't enough to overcome one bad semester.

[wine in coffee cups]

This surprises me, and almost has to be the result of either something you're not revealing here or a poor letter of recommendation. The stat pool is deep, but it's not so deep that places like Washington and Carnegie Mellon are regularly passing on students with 3.7+ GPAs in math from elite schools.

We've discussed this before, but I think you might be underestimating how many stat/biostat applicants have this profile? I think it's fairly common now for programs that are even a bit less selective than UW and CMU to reject applicants who would meet these criteria.

 

ppham27 looks to be in good company. Just anecdotally from this year on this forum, one could probably find more: look at aridneptune, who is a US citizen with a 4.0 GPA from UNC, math major, still was rejected by Berkeley stat, UW stat, Wharton stat and waitlisted by UW biostat. Or 3.82 GPA in math from an elite liberal arts college, female, US citizen; rejected by UW biostat, NCSU stat, Emory biostat; waitlisted by UMN biostat and Pitt biostat. Unmentioned weaknesses, who knows, but the happy ending is that they still got into other great programs. I did well overall when applying two years ago, but I was still rejected by CMU stat + joint stat/policy and Harvard stat as a female, US citizen, math major, attended high ranked LAC, 3.93 overall GPA, 3.98 math GPA, tons of proof-based math coursework, department routinely sends students to good math and statistics graduate programs, great recommendations. I have to assume there are enough applicants out there now with strong profiles that top places have the luxury of picking among them based on department-specific preferences about research fit, depth of prior research experiences, depth of statistics coursework, computational skills, who knows.

[wine in coffee cups]

Given your desire for a non-academic career, can you say more about what kinds of industry jobs you might be interested in? And are you sure you need a PhD in statistics for those jobs, as opposed to a master's degree or PhD in some related but potentially more relevant area like operations research or financial math?