Help! Need to make decisions, soon!

[SS1225]

Hey guys. So, this year I applied to about 15 PhD programs, and got rejected from all of them. I did get accepted to Teacher's College Columbia MA in Psych, and to Rutgers MSW program. I've been "in the field" now for four years - the first two years as a Clinical Research Coordinator, the second two as a Counselor (doing group counseling - somehow we're titled "Counselor" despite just having the bachelors). After the first two years I applied to about 9 schools, also getting rejected. I'm really, really tired of these lateral movements. In my gut, I know I want and need more. My understanding is that the MA in Pysch at Columbia offers nothing but an enhanced likelihood of acceptance into their (or some other?) PhD program.  The MSW at Rutgers isn't quite the same as clinical psychology, but at least at the end of the two years, I'll have some sort of a license to practice.  *I do, want to do research, by the way. My thoughts are that while I'm in the program, I'll try to reach out to faculty in the clinical psych department, to develo raport and work with them, and possibly, via that route, enhance my likelihood of getting into their PhD program in the future (somewhat similar to the way Columbia's program works). I am not a fan of living in the city (at all), although I would have been willing to uproot everything in a minute to go to Columbia's PhD program.  For their MA program, on the other hand, it seems like a huge inconvenience (lifestyle wise and financially) for a risky situation, compared to the MSW at Rutgers. By the way, my stats are GPA: 3.88, GRE: 154, 157, 4.5, the experience listed above (and an article that's almost submitted,but, we know that doesn't count).

 

Thanks so much for your input.  I've got about... 4 days to decide.

[juilletmercredi]

Personally, I would definitely NOT do the MA in clinical psychology at Columbia.  It's very expensive, and as you mentioned it won't license you to practice anything.  The only thing it can do is maybe raise your chances of getting into a PhD program - but I think that's only in certain circumstances.  If you have very low grades from undergrad, getting an MA can help prove that you can do graduate-level work.  But your grades are fine.  Honestly, the thing that really makes you competitive for clinical psych programs (and any psych) is research experience, and it seems like you have plenty of that as a clinical research coordinator.

 

Once, quite some time ago, a professor from the clinical psych program at UVa came to my graduate school and recommended the MSW as a stepping stone to clinical psych degrees, if one can't get into a PhD program straight from grad school.  Honestly, I think that would be the better choice here, if you absolutely want to choose one.  IMO, it opens more doors.  If you want to do clinical work and do research, after getting an MSW you can either go to a PhD in clinical psych or you can continue to get a PhD in social work.  And if you have an MSW, even if you get a PhD in clinical psych, you could then teach in either a psych department or a school of social work.  And if you need to take a few years after your MSW to get into a PhD program, you can get licensed as an LCSW and do actual clinical work, which you can't do with the TC degree.

 

If it's affordable to you and it won't put you into fantastic debt, that's what I'd do.  If the debt is great, though, at the MSW program...I'd try to investigate the reasons you're not getting into clinical programs.  Your grades are great and your GRE scores are decent.  You spent two years as a CRC and I'm assuming also have at least some undergrad research experience.  So maybe it's fit?  Or perhaps it's your written materials (personal statement)?  Also, clinical is very competitive, so it's not uncommon for even qualified candidates to take 2-3 cycles to get into a good place.

[clinicalpsychphd20]

Personally, I would definitely NOT do the MA in clinical psychology at Columbia.  It's very expensive, and as you mentioned it won't license you to practice anything.  The only thing it can do is maybe raise your chances of getting into a PhD program - but I think that's only in certain circumstances.  If you have very low grades from undergrad, getting an MA can help prove that you can do graduate-level work.  But your grades are fine.  Honestly, the thing that really makes you competitive for clinical psych programs (and any psych) is research experience, and it seems like you have plenty of that as a clinical research coordinator.

 

Once, quite some time ago, a professor from the clinical psych program at UVa came to my graduate school and recommended the MSW as a stepping stone to clinical psych degrees, if one can't get into a PhD program straight from grad school.  Honestly, I think that would be the better choice here, if you absolutely want to choose one.  IMO, it opens more doors.  If you want to do clinical work and do research, after getting an MSW you can either go to a PhD in clinical psych or you can continue to get a PhD in social work.  And if you have an MSW, even if you get a PhD in clinical psych, you could then teach in either a psych department or a school of social work.  And if you need to take a few years after your MSW to get into a PhD program, you can get licensed as an LCSW and do actual clinical work, which you can't do with the TC degree.

 

If it's affordable to you and it won't put you into fantastic debt, that's what I'd do.  If the debt is great, though, at the MSW program...I'd try to investigate the reasons you're not getting into clinical programs.  Your grades are great and your GRE scores are decent.  You spent two years as a CRC and I'm assuming also have at least some undergrad research experience.  So maybe it's fit?  Or perhaps it's your written materials (personal statement)?  Also, clinical is very competitive, so it's not uncommon for even qualified candidates to take 2-3 cycles to get into a good place.

 

 

 

I also advise against an MSW or a Master's Degree. It sounds like you have great research experience and a great GPA,so I am not sure a Master's degree will help much. The one thing you can do to greatly improve your chances is to get your GRE scores above 160. IMO, your GRE scores are good but not good enough for PhD programs. Also, did you have faculty/graduate students look over your personal statements? These can make or break an application. 

 

Try to get research experience in the field that you are interested in and apply again next year. Do not get a Master's degree if your goal is a PhD program. I think that it will be a waste of money in your particular situation. 

[baunlee]

I second what the last poster said about your GRE's.  I know students that just applied to masters and had higher scores. I mean of course it depends on what you want to do with a degree.  But just being brutally honest those GRE's are not good enough. I would get the verbal at least to 160 and the quant a little higher. Shouldnt be too hard since you are pretty close.

Edited April 11, 2014 by baunlee

[SS1225]

Oops, I lied a little bit about those GRE scores. I was kind of writing in a panic, last night, because I was making decisions about whether it was even worth it to go into New York for the day to admitted students day at Columbia (and decided against it).  My GRE scores are 160 (V) and 154 (Q). I remembered them as slightly lower, I guess, as they do stand out to me as a weaker point in my application.  The thing is, I took these twice, two years apart in time, and got exactly the same score.  I may in fact be the poster child for "intellectual stability". Overachievers unite! As for my personal statement, I had it reviewed by, and made revisions according to comments from mentors from my work as a CRC (professors I'm working with on papers at the moment). I've tried to pinpoint areas of weakness in my application. The first time around, I had one interview but did not get accepted. I asked the professor for feedback, but as life would, and does continue to have it, no reply! After that I decided to pursue clinical work, to vary the experience on my resume.  Let me tell you though, group counseling for children is NOT for me. Although I have moments with individual kids, the whole policing of children behavior is not my style, and not what I'm interested in. Anyway, before I get too far on that tangent, thanks for replying guys. I really appreciate it. I have heard that, in general if your GPA from undergrad is solid, Masters programs are not particualrly helpful.  My thought was that if I go beyond the basic requirements there and link up with the professors in the clinical department on research projects, I'll advance, somehow.

[QASP]

Some thoughts;

 

Those GRE scores are still a bit on the low side, even updated... they aren't "keep you out" horrible but they aren't "get you in" good, you'd need to have something impressive beyond that on your resume to overcome it a bit, I'd think. You also are missing productivity, which might typically fill this gap; you've been "in the field" for four years, and still do not have a publication if I am reading you right...do you have presentations and posters at conferences? Also, although you certainly applied to a reasonable number of schools, looking at the schools you applied to, those are mostly extremely competitive programs. It's sort of surprising you would apply to that many hyper competitive schools after not getting in before. Additionally, they are somewhat "all over the map" in terms of approach; I am not saying that there might not be individual reasons to apply to BU and to Columbia, but these schools are pretty far apart and it makes me wonder how clear you are on these differences and how well you really have considered the "fit" question, which can keep out even the most qualified applicants. If you think you could see yourself doing counseling, I would consider the MSW-- it might give you a chance to get some more productive research experience and provide a chance to work with adult populations which it sounds like is your preference. I think you do need to think about the financial advantages/disadvantages of that, though, and if there might be easier ways to improve your application over the next year by focusing on the GRE, your PS in terms of fit, and the competitiveness of the programs you're applying to. Best of luck whatever you choose.