what are the top 15 IR schools

[rileypep]

Hello, Ill be applying for grad school this upcoming fall and I was wondering what the top 15 IR schools that have concentrations in security studies are. I cant really find anything on the gradschool search engines so i was wondering if i can get some input here. I mainly want to know where the 5 - 15 programs are because i highly doubt that i can get into the top 5 with my Work experience(only 9-10 months of internships)

thanks

[stilesg57]

Here's Foreign Policy Magazine's list:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4685&page=1

About what I would come up with, though I would rank UCSD's program a little higher and Columbia's a little lower (behind Princeton).

[jpa]

I agree that UCSD should be higher, esp. because of their strength in Asian studies.

[HisRoyalHighness]

This is an IR list - not one which ranks Security Studies programs. If you're specifically looking at Security Studies the best schools, in no particular order, include:

1. JKSIS at University of Denver

2. Georgetown

3. Columbia SIPA

4. University of Pittsburg GSPIA

5. Kansas State University

6. Tufts Fletcher

Some of the issues to consider are the curriculum - does a school offer a security-focused curriculum or a more IR-based focus? Are the professors known within the security field for their work - or are they IR professors teaching security issues? Is the school located near large military and security centers? Where are the graduates of the security studies field currently working or teaching? Does the program require second language proficiency?

Look at the program and lay out a sample first year course schedule for each school, then compare them. That's a great way of weeding out programs which have a heavily econ or IR focus but claim they're security-focused.

This is my field so if you have any questions send me a PM.

[kimkegaard]

1. Princeton Woodrow Wilson

2. Harvard Kennedy School

3. Johns Hopkins SAIS

4. Georgetown SFS

5. Tufts Fletcher

6. Columbia SIPA

7. Stanford IPS

8. Yale

9. George Washington Elliot

10. London School of Economics

[johnxbatsy]

I still think of WWS and KSG as more public policy than IR. Speaking in terms of strictly IR, I'd rank them as:

(1) Johns Hopkins SAIS

(2) Georgetown MSFS

(3) Tufts Fletcher

(4) Columbia SIPA

(5) LSE

(6) GW Elliott School

(7) UCSD

(8) American

(9) Yale

I think the fact that Georgetown is #1 on Foreign Policy is extremely bizarre, as most ppl I know seem to regard SAIS as the absolute #1 program.

[s58]

How can LSE be so highly ranked? coz at the end of the day that degree has just got 3 papers taught in a highly academic manner, and the rest of the schools have a way more rigorous, extensive, and in most cases, a practical curriculum.

[jpa]

I still think of WWS and KSG as more public policy than IR. Speaking in terms of strictly IR, I'd rank them as:

(1) Johns Hopkins SAIS

(2) Georgetown MSFS

(3) Tufts Fletcher

(4) Columbia SIPA

(5) LSE

(6) GW Elliott School

(7) UCSD

(8) American

(9) Yale

I think the fact that Georgetown is #1 on Foreign Policy is extremely bizarre, as most ppl I know seem to regard SAIS as the absolute #1 program.

that's a pretty good list for IR. I would place Fletcher in front of GTown, though. Many people who I have spoken to in IR (pretty senior people--not necessarily famous --in, state dept, defense and intell) in DC say G'Town doesn't even come close to SAIS. But whatever, honestly, I think all of the aforementioned schools are great. I think it's based on the individual and what he/she takes from the experience. However, I have to say that what made me choose SAIS was how much emphasis is placed on its students' professional development (that's why I'm paying a shitload to go to a professional school, right?) and solid alumni network in Asia (China and SE Asia, where I lived for 2 yrs each). Even people who are not in IR have heard of SAIS and held it in high regards as a top school. I honestly have run into more SAISers than SIPA, Fletcher and MSFS alumni combined, which played a major role in piquing my interest in SAIS.

[stilesg57]

I've always heard from those in the know that SAIS is the far and away the best, with Gtown standing out mostly because of it's placement in the Foreign Service. I know here in Beijing SAIS and Hopkins-Nanjing people run this town, at least when it comes to foreigner stuff (business, government, non-profit, EVERYTHING). My little sis is fluent in Mandarin (a big reason why I'm out here) and she got into Hopkins-Nanjing but deferred till next year. She wants a bit on her resume though since she's pretty fresh out of undergrad. That way if she rocks the certificate program it can lead directly to the SAIS MA. The connections she's seeing from the JHU programs out here are incredible.

[jpa]

I've always heard from those in the know that SAIS is the far and away the best, with Gtown standing out mostly because of it's placement in the Foreign Service. I know here in Beijing SAIS and Hopkins-Nanjing people run this town, at least when it comes to foreigner stuff (business, government, non-profit, EVERYTHING). My little sis is fluent in Mandarin (a big reason why I'm out here) and she got into Hopkins-Nanjing but deferred till next year. She wants a bit on her resume though since she's pretty fresh out of undergrad. That way if she rocks the certificate program it can lead directly to the SAIS MA. The connections she's seeing from the JHU programs out here are incredible.

That's great for her! She should definitely do the Nanjing program. I have a number of friends, who is living/have lived in Shanghai/Beijing who did the certificate and MA programs, and they said employers in China were knocking on their door. Mostly because their Chinese has to be really impressive. Besides that, they're amazing, outgoing people. They're very helpful in finding fellow alumni jobs or even friends of alumni, at least that was true in my case.

[HisRoyalHighness]

You all keep talking about IR - the original poster specifically asked about Security Studies. I would not put Yale, LSE or even SAIS on a top-10 list for International Security. IR and Security are two separate fields - security focuses on intelligence, defense, regional security and terrorism analysis using qualitative and quantitative methods - IR does not.

[jly]

You all keep talking about IR - the original poster specifically asked about Security Studies. I would not put Yale, LSE or even SAIS on a top-10 list for International Security. IR and Security are two separate fields - security focuses on intelligence, defense, regional security and terrorism analysis using qualitative and quantitative methods - IR does not.

agreed... you should be looking at schools like gwu, pitt, denver, etc.

[cmnt29]

HisRoyalHighness has a good post here. His reasoning for schools is right on

Most of the usual suspects have a security studies program, they differ slightly. The poster wants to know 5-15, but i'll start at the top anyway.

1) The best one is SAIS (if you want to study the military aspect of security studies, because their program is Strategic Studies and students study the use of force whereas at other schools, like Fletcher, you study a broader definition of security that melts in with foreign policy.)

2) HKS, the int'l security program.

3)SIPA ISP

4) Georgetown Security Studies

5) GWU

6) Fletcher, I forget

Tier 2: Pitt, Denver. Check out APSIA website for other schools

*I rank these two based really on how many people I know if the defense/foreign policy world have gone to these schools, and how high up they've gotten.

Check out the school websites and compare them. If I had little work experience but wanted to go to grad school, I'd try to go somewhere in DC so I could land an internship during the school year and get some work experience.

My last bit of advice: just because you want to be involved in the security community, does not necessarily mean you should study security. This world has everything from historians to physicists at all levels of the profession. I'd study something that will allow you to do a large number of tasks at any organization and therefore why I'd recommend going for a generalist program like WWS over a narrower security studies one.

[jpa]

HisRoyalHighness has a good post here. His reasoning for schools is right on

Most of the usual suspects have a security studies program, they differ slightly. The poster wants to know 5-15, but i'll start at the top anyway.

1) The best one is SAIS (if you want to study the military aspect of security studies, because their program is Strategic Studies and students study the use of force whereas at other schools, like Fletcher, you study a broader definition of security that melts in with foreign policy.)

2) HKS, the int'l security program.

3)SIPA ISP

4) Georgetown Security Studies

5) GWU

6) Fletcher, I forget

Tier 2: Pitt, Denver. Check out APSIA website for other schools

*I rank these two based really on how many people I know if the defense/foreign policy world have gone to these schools, and how high up they've gotten.

Check out the school websites and compare them. If I had little work experience but wanted to go to grad school, I'd try to go somewhere in DC so I could land an internship during the school year and get some work experience.

My last bit of advice: just because you want to be involved in the security community, does not necessarily mean you should study security. This world has everything from historians to physicists at all levels of the profession. I'd study something that will allow you to do a large number of tasks at any organization and therefore why I'd recommend going for a generalist program like WWS over a narrower security studies one.

I completely agree on your list of schools and your "last bit of advice." The intell community, for example, is known to actively recruit MBA candidates as well. They're basically looking for people with analytical/quant skills. And yes, they do indeed have a wide range of professions. Those who are more technical tend to make more money as well. Basically, my advice is research the career services center and professors. I had several friends, who have been there/done that and they said the key people who will help you with connections are your department's staff. As for career center, what do the have to offer? Where do they place (region and employer)? SAIS has a "SAIS 200" most loyal list of employers. Check that out. What's the average salary (if that's important to you...it is to me considering the high cost of school)? I'm always wary of schools with poor employment stats.

Other important questions: Look at the job req for those positions on the employers' website. How well will the school prepare you to excel in the field? Alumni network? And what I did to research was look at those who are in the positions you want in 10-15 years? What did they do? You'll be surprised at how wide-ranging their backgrounds are...with that said, do what you think feels right for you.

[HisRoyalHighness]

I don't agree with the listing of SAIS at the top - at all. In a meeting I once attended the dean of the Naval Postgraduate School showed a list of what the military and intelligence communities feel are the top 10 schools for Security Studies and neither KSG nor SAIS were on that list, Georgetown was and so was Fletcher along with Kansas State University and Korbel. Take that as you may but I lean heavily towards respecting the advice of the intelligence and defense communities over that of US News and World Report or that ghastly Foreign Policy survey - which mislabeled the University of Denver as "The University of Colorado at Denver," published the mistake and then took two months to correct it.

Anyway - it's all subjective. The other posters have given good advice and as I said to someone else asking the same question: look at all the schools you're interested in and prepare a first-year course load for each and then compare. That is an excellent tool for deciding which program fits your specific interests. Also visit the schools before applying. I started this process intending to apply to Georgetown, Tufts, American and Korbel. After visiting all the schools I took American and Georgetown off the list and applied to Tufts and Korbel (University of Denver). I was admitted to both and chose Denver after laying out a first-year course load and deciding Denver's focus fit much more closely to what I was interested in. Had I not done any of that I prolly would have ended up at Georgetown - which before I started was my first choice.

[zourah]

I don't agree with the listing of SAIS at the top - at all. In a meeting I once attended the dean of the Naval Postgraduate School showed a list of what the military and intelligence communities feel are the top 10 schools for Security Studies and neither KSG nor SAIS were on that list, Georgetown was and so was Fletcher along with Kansas State University and Korbel. Take that as you may but I lean heavily towards respecting the advice of the intelligence and defense communities over that of US News and World Report or that ghastly Foreign Policy survey - which mislabeled the University of Denver as "The University of Colorado at Denver," published the mistake and then took two months to correct it.

Anyway - it's all subjective. The other posters have given good advice and as I said to someone else asking the same question: look at all the schools you're interested in and prepare a first-year course load for each and then compare. That is an excellent tool for deciding which program fits your specific interests. Also visit the schools before applying. I started this process intending to apply to Georgetown, Tufts, American and Korbel. After visiting all the schools I took American and Georgetown off the list and applied to Tufts and Korbel (University of Denver). I was admitted to both and chose Denver after laying out a first-year course load and deciding Denver's focus fit much more closely to what I was interested in. Had I not done any of that I prolly would have ended up at Georgetown - which before I started was my first choice.

But it's also about the IR/Security differences. Those rankings are for IR/political programs, which are not strongly related. I wouldn't call them "ghastly" or worthless - just not relevant to the question at hand.

[HisRoyalHighness]

Yes, I was referring specifically to one of the other posters listing SAIS as a top Security Studies school. The Foreign Policy rankings are good for IR programs and differ significantly (and more accurately in my view) than the new US News and World Report rankings of IR graduate programs. But still - Foreign Policy's error in listing DU as "UC Denver" is pretty egregious. Of course I'm hardly unbiased as I'll be starting at Korbel in September

[Cornell07]

Yes, I was referring specifically to one of the other posters listing SAIS as a top Security Studies school. The Foreign Policy rankings are good for IR programs and differ significantly (and more accurately in my view) than the new US News and World Report rankings of IR graduate programs. But still - Foreign Policy's error in listing DU as "UC Denver" is pretty egregious. Of course I'm hardly unbiased as I'll be starting at Korbel in September

Wait... Korbel is not at UC Denver? I am man enough to admit my error and say that I had always assumed that.

[younglions]

Denver University is a private institution. University of Colorado (main campus in Boulder) has a smaller campus in Denver--UC-Denver.

Edit: Korbel School is at DU (the private institution).

[HisRoyalHighness]

The University of Colorado at Denver doesn't even have an international relations graduate program. You'd think Foreign Policy would have fact-checked that before publishing it, particularly since the study appeared online weeks before the magazine itself was published.