Will my working experience help me a lot in my application? help!

[ruczy]

hi every body, I am intending to apply for a respectable political science PHD program in 2015 fall, and here is my profile:

 

Undergraduate situation: Renmin University of China ( a top 3 university in social science in China)

 

Major: International Relations, GPA: 3.43/4.0

 

Minor: Public Administration, GPA: 3.41/4.0

 

GRE: V163/Q170/AW3.0 (sigh!)

 

TOEFL: haven’t taken yet, but I scored a 109 6 years ago, so it shouldn’t be a problem.

 

And here is the point, I have worked in the research division of a provincial government in China for more than five years, and my job is mainly about doing government directed researches about Chinese political systems. Unfortunately, all my researches were published under government leader’s name, so I  don’t have any published works.

 

Here are the questions, will my working experience help me a lot in my application? What is my chance to get a offer from respectable schools?

And will my analytical writing school seriously hurt my application? Do I need to retake the GRE?

 

Thanks a lot! 

[cooperstreet]

 

 

Here are the questions, will my working experience help me a lot in my application? What is my chance to get a offer from respectable schools?

And will my analytical writing school seriously hurt my application? Do I need to retake the GRE?

 

Thanks a lot! 

 

Will your working experience help 'a lot'? No. It will help though.

 

What are your chances? I have no idea.

 

Will your AWA score hurt you? my hunch is yes. Seriously? probably not. I had a very low AWA (4.0) and did ok, but I think there may be a different standard for people where english is a foreign language? That standard may be more forgiving though, so I dont know. Either way, the 163v is quite good for anyone so that will help mitigate the lower AWA score.

[ruczy]

Will your working experience help 'a lot'? No. It will help though.

 

What are your chances? I have no idea.

 

Will your AWA score hurt you? my hunch is yes. Seriously? probably not. I had a very low AWA (4.0) and did ok, but I think there may be a different standard for people where english is a foreign language? That standard may be more forgiving though, so I dont know. Either way, the 163v is quite good for anyone so that will help mitigate the lower AWA score.

thanks a lot!

[victorydance]

There's no connection between work experience and getting accepted to Ph.D. programs. Graduate programs are looking for potential academics, which really has nothing to do with work experience for the most part. 

 

That being said, you can use it to your 'advantage' if it closely is related to your research intentions. 

[DKSL]

There's no connection between work experience and getting accepted to Ph.D. programs. Graduate programs are looking for potential academics, which really has nothing to do with work experience for the most part. 

 

That being said, you can use it to your 'advantage' if it closely is related to your research intentions. 

HC, have you gone through a cycle yet? 

[ruczy]

There's no connection between work experience and getting accepted to Ph.D. programs. Graduate programs are looking for potential academics, which really has nothing to do with work experience for the most part. 

 

That being said, you can use it to your 'advantage' if it closely is related to your research intentions. 

actually, i am intending to apply for professors whose research area is Chinese political system , and my research during last five years is mainly about this topic. But my research is mainly government directed which is not the same as academic researches (it is kind of like an official think tank for a provincial government in China), and i am not sure whether academic world would value this kind of research experiences or not.  Should I emphasize it in my SOP? or just treat it as a normal experience?

 

Edited April 23, 2014 by ruczy

[joesephsci]

hi every body, I am intending to apply for a respectable political science PHD program in 2015 fall, and here is my profile:

 

Undergraduate situation: Renmin University of China ( a top 3 university in social science in China)

 

Major: International Relations, GPA: 3.43/4.0

 

Minor: Public Administration, GPA: 3.41/4.0

 

GRE: V163/Q170/AW3.0 (sigh!)

 

TOEFL: haven’t taken yet, but I scored a 109 6 years ago, so it shouldn’t be a problem.

 

And here is the point, I have worked in the research division of a provincial government in China for more than five years, and my job is mainly about doing government directed researches about Chinese political systems. Unfortunately, all my researches were published under government leader’s name, so I  don’t have any published works.

 

Here are the questions, will my working experience help me a lot in my application? What is my chance to get a offer from respectable schools?

And will my analytical writing school seriously hurt my application? Do I need to retake the GRE?

 

Thanks a lot!

 

I don't think that your AW Score will hurt you, as long as you have a stellar writing sample. That is, it will perhaps raise a concern, that can be easily mitigated by providing a writing sample that shows that you are capable of doing graduate level research in English.

[ruczy]

I don't think that your AW Score will hurt you, as long as you have a stellar writing sample. That is, it will perhaps raise a concern, that can be easily mitigated by providing a writing sample that shows that you are capable of doing graduate level research in English.

thanks a lot!

[victorydance]

HC, have you gone through a cycle yet? 

 

No. My first cycle is this fall. So this is just what I have gathered from numerous sources, so it should always be taken with a grain of salt (like many Ph.D. application 'advice').

 

actually, i am intending to apply for professors whose research area is Chinese political system , and my research during last five years is mainly about this topic. But my research is mainly government directed which is not the same as academic researches (it is kind of like an official think tank for a provincial government in China), and i am not sure whether academic world would value this kind of research experiences or not.  Should I emphasize it in my SOP? or just treat it as a normal experience?

 

You should definitely emphasize this in your SOP. Especially if you don't have any formal academic research experience, such as working as a research assistant for a professor or something along these lines. 

 

Research is still research, and working for a number of years in government research is definitely an asset. I have no idea what your job description actually entailed but I imagine you can emphasize a number of skills you gained that could be fruitful in a doctoral program in political science, this is what you want to focus the emphasis on. 

 

Of course, this isn't going to put you ahead of any applicants per se (maybe perhaps those who have no research experience at all, but maybe not even then), but it will by no means hinder your chances.

[ruczy]

No. My first cycle is this fall. So this is just what I have gathered from numerous sources, so it should always be taken with a grain of salt (like many Ph.D. application 'advice').

 

 

You should definitely emphasize this in your SOP. Especially if you don't have any formal academic research experience, such as working as a research assistant for a professor or something along these lines. 

 

Research is still research, and working for a number of years in government research is definitely an asset. I have no idea what your job description actually entailed but I imagine you can emphasize a number of skills you gained that could be fruitful in a doctoral program in political science, this is what you want to focus the emphasis on. 

 

Of course, this isn't going to put you ahead of any applicants per se (maybe perhaps those who have no research experience at all, but maybe not even then), but it will by no means hinder your chances.

Thanks very much

[davet73]

I think if you had experience in the field it will help. I have over 21 years work (paid) experience in political campaigns and election (and my focus is voting behavior). I think this experience helped quite a bit. But again, I think the field needs to be closely related. 

[jazzrap]

OP,

 

Work experience will only help an applicant a lot when it is both quant-heavy and directly relevant to your research interests. Therefore, in your case, it probably won't help a lot as it does not meet the first condition. There are two ways it will help a little bit. First, in your SOP you can write that it is an experience that has helped inform your research interests. In other words, it can make your SOP flow more smoothly. Second, it definitely means that you are a candidate who is quite knowledgeable about the geographic area you intend to study. Note that there is a decreasing rate of return on your regional expertise in admission. Being a Chinese yourself already helps in this regard, so having interned at a provincial-level government think tank will add more credential to it, but not that much in the eyes of a professor who does admissions. 

 

More importantly, there are three aspects of the admission you need to consider. First, your GRE scores. The writing score will hurt a lot. It will make you add to the stereotype that Chinese over-perform in the GREs. Professors can be like: "hey, there is another Chinese who got a verbal score that is higher than the actual level of research-level English he has. His writing score says a lot." An American will have less of a problem scoring 3 out of 6 in the writing section than a Chinese who comes from China. But even for an American, 3 out of 6 is still pretty low. Not low enough to shut you out of the door, but it will hurt you in the later stage where professors are debating between two files. In addition, there is still time, so retake your GRE also for the sake of getting even higher scores on verbal. It is important to have a score as high as possible. Trust me, scoring a 335+ will help a lot. People will say things like "I got in Michigan with a not so high GRE score" or "I have seen people with perfect scores who got eliminated by most programs." Just because there are people who die in a car crash with the seat belt on and there are people who survive without the seat belt on does not mean that you should not fasten your seat belt. Those who got into a top 5 with low GRE might have perfect GPA, which you don't have, a letter from Thad Dunning, which you don't have, and a degree in CS and Economics, which you don't have. Oftentimes, professors face a choice between two candidates. One interned in the Federal Reserve for 2 years. The other works as a NGO correspondent in Rwanda.  The first person got a letter from Gary King, the other from James Fearon. The first person has a degree from a top 5 US university with a GPA 3.8. The second person has a degree from a top 10 US university with 3.9. Professors are not able to tell whose profile is stronger, but with the GREs, they can. 335+ is better than 328. Case closed. Let's be clear. your current scores in verbal and math are not bad. If it is August, I would not even recommend retaking the test. However, it is June. 

 

Second, you need to think more than just China. Nowadays comparative politics has moved completely beyond regional studies and most research produced on a single country must be framed in a way that contributes to mainstream theories that can predict phenomenon cross-nationally. Therefore, don't say out front in your SOP that you want to study Chinese political system. NO. Say this: "I hope to make contributions to the rapidly proliferating literature on authoritarian regimes." Then, don't even mention China until you reach the paragraph where you need to explain your work experience. To begin reading the mainstream theories that China is relevant to, I recommend works by Milan Svolik, Babara Geddes, and Scott Gehlbach. 

 

Third, these years applicants from China never succeed in getting into a decent school without training in US or Britain. Many applicants now go with the route of applying to master programs in the US to gain experience before PhD applications.

 

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to PM me. Good luck.

Edited May 31, 2014 by jazzrap

[phd_prospie]

Great post. I wish I had heard this advice when I was an applicant. I still ended up being the person without a seatbelt to walk away from a car crash, though.

OP,

Work experience will only help an applicant a lot when it is both quant-heavy and directly relevant to your research interests. Therefore, in your case, it probably won't help a lot as it does not meet the first condition. There are two ways it will help a little bit. First, in your SOP you can write that it is an experience that has helped inform your research interests. In other words, it can make your SOP flow more smoothly. Second, it definitely means that you are a candidate who is quite knowledgeable about the geographic area you intend to study. Note that there is a decreasing rate of return on your regional expertise in admission. Being a Chinese yourself already helps in this regard, so having interned at a provincial-level government think tank will add more credential to it, but not that much in the eyes of a professor who does admissions.

More importantly, there are three aspects of the admission you need to consider. First, your GRE scores. The writing score will hurt a lot. It will make you add to the stereotype that Chinese over-perform in the GREs. Professors can be like: "hey, there is another Chinese who got a verbal score that is higher than the actual level of research-level English he has. His writing score says a lot." An American will have less of a problem scoring 3 out of 6 in the writing section than a Chinese who comes from China. But even for an American, 3 out of 6 is still pretty low. Not low enough to shut you out of the door, but it will hurt you in the later stage where professors are debating between two files. In addition, there is still time, so retake your GRE also for the sake of getting even higher scores on verbal. It is important to have a score as high as possible. Trust me, scoring a 335+ will help a lot. People will say things like "I got in Michigan with a not so high GRE score" or "I have seen people with perfect scores who got eliminated by most programs." Just because there are people who die in a car crash with the seat belt on and there are people who survive without the seat belt on does not mean that you should not fasten your seat belt. Those who got into a top 5 with low GRE might have perfect GPA, which you don't have, a letter from Thad Dunning, which you don't have, and a degree in CS and Economics, which you don't have. Oftentimes, professors face a choice between two candidates. One interned in the Federal Reserve for 2 years. The other works as a NGO correspondent in Rwanda. The first person got a letter from Gary King, the other from James Fearon. The first person has a degree from a top 5 US university with a GPA 3.8. The second person has a degree from a top 10 US university with 3.9. Professors are not able to tell whose profile is stronger, but with the GREs, they can. 335+ is better than 328. Case closed. Let's be clear. your current scores in verbal and math are not bad. If it is August, I would not even recommend retaking the test. However, it is June.

Second, you need to think more than just China. Nowadays comparative politics has moved completely beyond regional studies and most research produced on a single country must be framed in a way that contributes to mainstream theories that can predict phenomenon cross-nationally. Therefore, don't say out front in your SOP that you want to study Chinese political system. NO. Say this: "I hope to make contributions to the rapidly proliferating literature on authoritarian regimes." Then, don't even mention China until you reach the paragraph where you need to explain your work experience. To begin reading the mainstream theories that China is relevant to, I recommend works by Milan Svolik, Babara Geddes, and Scott Gehlbach.

Third, these years applicants from China never succeed in getting into a decent school without training in US or Britain. Many applicants now go with the route of applying to master programs in the US to gain experience before PhD applications.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to PM me. Good luck.

[jazzrap]

Great post. I wish I had heard this advice when I was an applicant. I still ended up being the person without a seatbelt to walk away from a car crash, though.

 

Haha that's good as well! 

[ruczy]

 

I think if you had experience in the field it will help. I have over 21 years work (paid) experience in political campaigns and election (and my focus is voting behavior). I think this experience helped quite a bit. But again, I think the field needs to be closely related. 

 

thanks a lot!

[ruczy]

 

Thanks a lot! your post is really constructive, it really helps! I am currently woking on the TOEFL test, and I will retake GRE after that! thanks again!!!

OP,

 

Work experience will only help an applicant a lot when it is both quant-heavy and directly relevant to your research interests. Therefore, in your case, it probably won't help a lot as it does not meet the first condition. There are two ways it will help a little bit. First, in your SOP you can write that it is an experience that has helped inform your research interests. In other words, it can make your SOP flow more smoothly. Second, it definitely means that you are a candidate who is quite knowledgeable about the geographic area you intend to study. Note that there is a decreasing rate of return on your regional expertise in admission. Being a Chinese yourself already helps in this regard, so having interned at a provincial-level government think tank will add more credential to it, but not that much in the eyes of a professor who does admissions. 

 

More importantly, there are three aspects of the admission you need to consider. First, your GRE scores. The writing score will hurt a lot. It will make you add to the stereotype that Chinese over-perform in the GREs. Professors can be like: "hey, there is another Chinese who got a verbal score that is higher than the actual level of research-level English he has. His writing score says a lot." An American will have less of a problem scoring 3 out of 6 in the writing section than a Chinese who comes from China. But even for an American, 3 out of 6 is still pretty low. Not low enough to shut you out of the door, but it will hurt you in the later stage where professors are debating between two files. In addition, there is still time, so retake your GRE also for the sake of getting even higher scores on verbal. It is important to have a score as high as possible. Trust me, scoring a 335+ will help a lot. People will say things like "I got in Michigan with a not so high GRE score" or "I have seen people with perfect scores who got eliminated by most programs." Just because there are people who die in a car crash with the seat belt on and there are people who survive without the seat belt on does not mean that you should not fasten your seat belt. Those who got into a top 5 with low GRE might have perfect GPA, which you don't have, a letter from Thad Dunning, which you don't have, and a degree in CS and Economics, which you don't have. Oftentimes, professors face a choice between two candidates. One interned in the Federal Reserve for 2 years. The other works as a NGO correspondent in Rwanda.  The first person got a letter from Gary King, the other from James Fearon. The first person has a degree from a top 5 US university with a GPA 3.8. The second person has a degree from a top 10 US university with 3.9. Professors are not able to tell whose profile is stronger, but with the GREs, they can. 335+ is better than 328. Case closed. Let's be clear. your current scores in verbal and math are not bad. If it is August, I would not even recommend retaking the test. However, it is June. 

 

Second, you need to think more than just China. Nowadays comparative politics has moved completely beyond regional studies and most research produced on a single country must be framed in a way that contributes to mainstream theories that can predict phenomenon cross-nationally. Therefore, don't say out front in your SOP that you want to study Chinese political system. NO. Say this: "I hope to make contributions to the rapidly proliferating literature on authoritarian regimes." Then, don't even mention China until you reach the paragraph where you need to explain your work experience. To begin reading the mainstream theories that China is relevant to, I recommend works by Milan Svolik, Babara Geddes, and Scott Gehlbach. 

 

Third, these years applicants from China never succeed in getting into a decent school without training in US or Britain. Many applicants now go with the route of applying to master programs in the US to gain experience before PhD applications.

 

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to PM me. Good luck.