Was going for Clinical Psych, now thinking IO...do I have a shot?

[hmpsychology]

Hi, 

I am a recent grad (May 2013) and am a research assistant at a great psych research lab at a top institution.  I was always going for the Clinical PhD but recently have been thinking a career outside of academia in the business world may be best for my personality.  (I talk way too much and am too impatient to be a therapist!). I love Clinical but I think that IO will be a better fit in terms of my skills. I love organizing people and presenting and increasing efficiency and looking at what makes people tick (and conversely, how to calm them). I think I would be better served not in a lab and around people where it is more fast paced and the challenges are different. Also, I think IO will give me more options. My other thought is to apply to some of the psychology and social intervention/public policy programs (NYU, Georgetown).  However, my reasoning aside- I think I will apply to these programs and I would like to know if I would even be considered.

 

I took almost every psych class my undergrad institution offered (slight exaggeration) excelled in all of them.  

GRE scores are 170verbal 162 quant and 850 Psych gre (99th percentile).

GPA undergrad 3.72 magna cum laude

Did an honors thesis 

I have 3 publications, one first author publication. And will be on 8 posters (3 first author) by the time I apply.

 

However I have no relevant experience and a lot to learn about IO.  My research is in neuroscience and psychotherapy. 

 

 

I am just wondering, is there anything I need to do to be a viable candidate for an IO program? I have not taken any marketing/business/OB classes. I know that this seems rushed/brash but before I do more research on IO and my options in general I wanted to consult with the gradcafe community to see if anyone has any insight. Thank you in advance!

Edited May 15, 2014 by hmpsychology

[lewin]

You need to come across like you're serious about IO and didn't just pick it on a whim. How do you actually know that you like IO? (i.e., if you had IO lab experience you could explain using that)  If it looks like you're going into IO without knowing much about it, it appears more likely you that could easily become disinterested (or turn out to be bad at it). That's the impression you need to combat.

[Maziana]

Think about what areas in IO psychology that you're interested in, and do some outside reading about these topics. Maybe you can direct one of your research projects to be related to these interests. 

 

Having a specific research area is very important. However, professors tend to be understanding if you don't have experience directly related to IO, since so many schools don't have IO psychology programs/classes. Personally, I worked in a cognitive lab and never had an IO class, but it is such a broad field that I was able to direct my research towards my interests in IO psychology. I think you have a definite chance! 

Edited May 15, 2014 by Maziana

[clinicalpsychphd20]

Maybe see if you can get experience at a IO lab (even if it's just part-time)? It may not be much  if you are applying for Fall 2015, but it's better than nothing and could be enough with your previous experience. 

[hmpsychology]

You need to come across like you're serious about IO and didn't just pick it on a whim. How do you actually know that you like IO? (i.e., if you had IO lab experience you could explain using that)  If it looks like you're going into IO without knowing much about it, it appears more likely you that could easily become disinterested (or turn out to be bad at it). That's the impression you need to combat.

 

Yes- I think that I clearly need to do more research to be sure that I want to do this, my concern would be that even if I do decide this is the right move that I still come off as scattered. I just have to figure out how to make sure it looks like I know my stuff! thank you

[hmpsychology]

Maybe see if you can get experience at a IO lab (even if it's just part-time)? It may not be much  if you are applying for Fall 2015, but it's better than nothing and could be enough with your previous experience. 

I would love to do this  I just don't know if I have time before I apply. My research assistantship is full time right now and I am not sure I could find something before applying in the fall. But definitely something to consider, I will look into it! 

[hmpsychology]

Think about what areas in IO psychology that you're interested in, and do some outside reading about these topics. Maybe you can direct one of your research projects to be related to these interests. 

 

Having a specific research area is very important. However, professors tend to be understanding if you don't have experience directly related to IO, since so many schools don't have IO psychology programs/classes. Personally, I worked in a cognitive lab and never had an IO class, but it is such a broad field that I was able to direct my research towards my interests in IO psychology. I think you have a definite chance! 

Hi Maziana, 

Thank you for the advice, that's good to know! What kind of cog psych research did you do? and what area are you currently in? Thanks!

[hmpsychology]

You'll be fine. I applied with zero I/O experience and was accepted to several places. The important thing is to have a good amount of research experience in some area of psychology, which you appear to have.

Great to know! What was your background if you don't mind my asking

[Munashi]

Think about what areas in IO psychology that you're interested in, and do some outside reading about these topics. Maybe you can direct one of your research projects to be related to these interests. 

 

Having a specific research area is very important. However, professors tend to be understanding if you don't have experience directly related to IO, since so many schools don't have IO psychology programs/classes. Personally, I worked in a cognitive lab and never had an IO class, but it is such a broad field that I was able to direct my research towards my interests in IO psychology. I think you have a definite chance! 

 

The above is very good advice.  Your stats are solid, and I do think you'd have a pretty solid shot at admission.

 

When I applied for Fall 2014, I didn't have specific I/O experience (most of my research was in clinical/social psych) and I had never taken an I/O course either.  Like others have said, see what you can do to start demonstrating I/O-specific interest.  I took an online MBA course in Management (I don't know how much this helped me, but I mentioned in my SoP). At my job as a research coordinator I was given the chance to add a measure or two of my choosing into another research project, so I picked some I/O-related things and talked about the research question a bit in my app.  I read I/O journals and checked out text books from the library.  This helps when trying to decide which POIs you want to work with, etc.

 

I think most I/O programs understand that the field is still pretty small and that not everyone will come in with I/O-specific research, etc.  You just need to know enough to be sure this is really where your interests are, and to intelligently discuss potential research projects.

 

Even if a school as specific requirements, check with the program directors!  I applied (and was accepted to) a program that required an I/O class for admittance.  I wrote to the director and explained that my UG institution didn't offer this, etc.  He suggested explaining what I've done to supplement that gap in my SoP, so I did.  It went well!  If you have any specific questions about anything I've said, feel free to PM me.

[hmpsychology]

The above is very good advice.  Your stats are solid, and I do think you'd have a pretty solid shot at admission.

 

When I applied for Fall 2014, I didn't have specific I/O experience (most of my research was in clinical/social psych) and I had never taken an I/O course either.  Like others have said, see what you can do to start demonstrating I/O-specific interest.  I took an online MBA course in Management (I don't know how much this helped me, but I mentioned in my SoP). At my job as a research coordinator I was given the chance to add a measure or two of my choosing into another research project, so I picked some I/O-related things and talked about the research question a bit in my app.  I read I/O journals and checked out text books from the library.  This helps when trying to decide which POIs you want to work with, etc.

 

I think most I/O programs understand that the field is still pretty small and that not everyone will come in with I/O-specific research, etc.  You just need to know enough to be sure this is really where your interests are, and to intelligently discuss potential research projects.

 

Even if a school as specific requirements, check with the program directors!  I applied (and was accepted to) a program that required an I/O class for admittance.  I wrote to the director and explained that my UG institution didn't offer this, etc.  He suggested explaining what I've done to supplement that gap in my SoP, so I did.  It went well!  If you have any specific questions about anything I've said, feel free to PM me.

Thank you! great to know. 

[Maziana]

Hi Maziana, 

Thank you for the advice, that's good to know! What kind of cog psych research did you do? and what area are you currently in? Thanks!

 

After taking another look at your stats, I wouldn't worry too much. I'm pretty sure you can get in somewhere decent as long as you fulfill all the basic application recommendations (apply to enough schools, have good reccs, etc) and identify an area(s) of IO psychology that you'd like to focus on. When writing your personal statement, you could try to think about how your previous research guided you to IO psychology, prepared you for grad school, or how your previous research might be related to IO psych - in terms of statistics, general research questions, future applications of your past work, etc.

 

I work in a psycho-linguistics lab.  I started out with research that wasn't related to my interests, but now I'm working on a project about individual differences in reading and measurement of reading-related variables. My thesis was more social psychology oriented, but like Munashi, I added some workplace behavior measures to my survey battery. I'm going to be entering an IO program this fall, where I'll be focusing on a lot of measurement issues in personality and cognitive testing, individual differences in the workplace, and personnel selection.

 

[hmpsychology]

After taking another look at your stats, I wouldn't worry too much. I'm pretty sure you can get in somewhere decent as long as you fulfill all the basic application recommendations (apply to enough schools, have good reccs, etc) and identify an area(s) of IO psychology that you'd like to focus on. When writing your personal statement, you could try to think about how your previous research guided you to IO psychology, prepared you for grad school, or how your previous research might be related to IO psych - in terms of statistics, general research questions, future applications of your past work, etc.

 

I work in a psycho-linguistics lab.  I started out with research that wasn't related to my interests, but now I'm working on a project about individual differences in reading and measurement of reading-related variables. My thesis was more social psychology oriented, but like Munashi, I added some workplace behavior measures to my survey battery. I'm going to be entering an IO program this fall, where I'll be focusing on a lot of measurement issues in personality and cognitive testing, individual differences in the workplace, and personnel selection.

 

OK good to know. I don't think I will have the option to add any workplace measures but it is something to think about.  As for the info about your past and current focus, also great to know for me think about framing my experience. thank you!

[BeingThere]

 

I am just wondering, is there anything I need to do to be a viable candidate for an IO program? I have not taken any marketing/business/OB classes. I know that this seems rushed/brash but before I do more research on IO and my options in general I wanted to consult with the gradcafe community to see if anyone has any insight. Thank you in advance!

 

I second every suggestion you've been given so far.  I would just like to underscore how crucial it is that you spend some time now getting a decent understanding of what I/O is and how it is applied.  This will help you not only as you make your decision about a career path but also as you draft your personal statements.    

 

It sounds like you want to work in industry as opposed to a career in research.  If you want to go the applied route in I/O, you can also have a great well-paying career with a master's.  You don't necessarily need to get a PhD for that. 

Edited May 20, 2014 by Bren2014

[hmpsychology]

I second every suggestion you've been given so far.  I would just like to underscore how crucial it is that you spend some time now getting a decent understanding of what I/O is and how it is applied.  This will help you not only as you make your decision about a career path but also as you draft your personal statements.    

 

It sounds like you want to work in industry as opposed to a career in research.  If you want to go the applied route in I/O, you can also have a great well-paying career with a master's.  You don't necessarily need to get a PhD for that. 

Thank you! I think I do want to do the applied but I would like the option to do research later on or teach adjunct or something if I want to. 

[Saman]

I second every suggestion you've been given so far.  I would just like to underscore how crucial it is that you spend some time now getting a decent understanding of what I/O is and how it is applied.  This will help you not only as you make your decision about a career path but also as you draft your personal statements.    

 

It sounds like you want to work in industry as opposed to a career in research.  If you want to go the applied route in I/O, you can also have a great well-paying career with a master's.  You don't necessarily need to get a PhD for that. 

Hi Bren2014,

 

After reading your post, I came across a question that after getting a Ph.D, would they be prevented from working in applied setting ?? since a doctoral program vouch strongly for a career in academia. Right now, I am not sure whether I want to go to academia or applied setting as these both sectors sounds good to me so i want to give myself little bit more time to get familiarize myself with the real work environment and then decide. I just want to leave both the options open when it comes to decision making regarding my career. It would be great if you can through some light on my query.

 

Thanks in advance   

[Munashi]

Saman - You would still be able to get applied positions with a PhD. Many people do, and they tend to be higher paid than those with a terminal master's degree. A PhD is not necessary to go applied, meaning that you could go applied with only a masters. This can be a good option for people who definitely do not want to go into academia and aren't drawn to the idea/time-commitment of a PhD. However, a PhD potentially gives you the freedom to go either applied or into academia.

 

I am starting a PhD program with the intention to go into an applied setting.

[hmpsychology]

Saman - You would still be able to get applied positions with a PhD. Many people do, and they tend to be higher paid than those with a terminal master's degree. A PhD is not necessary to go applied, meaning that you could go applied with only a masters. This can be a good option for people who definitely do not want to go into academia and aren't drawn to the idea/time-commitment of a PhD. However, a PhD potentially gives you the freedom to go either applied or into academia.

 

I am starting a PhD program with the intention to go into an applied setting.

 

 

I second every suggestion you've been given so far.  I would just like to underscore how crucial it is that you spend some time now getting a decent understanding of what I/O is and how it is applied.  This will help you not only as you make your decision about a career path but also as you draft your personal statements.    

 

It sounds like you want to work in industry as opposed to a career in research.  If you want to go the applied route in I/O, you can also have a great well-paying career with a master's.  You don't necessarily need to get a PhD for that. 

 

 

After taking another look at your stats, I wouldn't worry too much. I'm pretty sure you can get in somewhere decent as long as you fulfill all the basic application recommendations (apply to enough schools, have good reccs, etc) and identify an area(s) of IO psychology that you'd like to focus on. When writing your personal statement, you could try to think about how your previous research guided you to IO psychology, prepared you for grad school, or how your previous research might be related to IO psych - in terms of statistics, general research questions, future applications of your past work, etc.

 

I work in a psycho-linguistics lab.  I started out with research that wasn't related to my interests, but now I'm working on a project about individual differences in reading and measurement of reading-related variables. My thesis was more social psychology oriented, but like Munashi, I added some workplace behavior measures to my survey battery. I'm going to be entering an IO program this fall, where I'll be focusing on a lot of measurement issues in personality and cognitive testing, individual differences in the workplace, and personnel selection.

 

 

 

You'll be fine. I applied with zero I/O experience and was accepted to several places. The important thing is to have a good amount of research experience in some area of psychology, which you appear to have.

 

 

Maybe see if you can get experience at a IO lab (even if it's just part-time)? It may not be much  if you are applying for Fall 2015, but it's better than nothing and could be enough with your previous experience. 

Thanks very much everyone! 

I had another question about the application process. For clinical PhDs each person applies to one mentor (for the most part), but ranks several others (usually). For a clinical personal statement, I would tailor it just to that one top person, because that usually works best (from what I understand, if you don't rank a certain faculty member first, they don't even look at you).

 

I know that at some IO programs this is not the case and thus one writes a more general personal statement (e.g. Minnesota).  But I was wondering, is it still encouraged to be specifically interested solely in one professor, is there any advantage to that? Or does it work better, for those programs (like Columbia, which is Social Organizational, though not technically IO is similar) that don't have you apply to a mentor, to express interest in as many of the faculty that you are actually interested in?  

Edited June 3, 2014 by hmpsychology

[BeingThere]

Thanks very much everyone! 

I had another question about the application process. For clinical PhDs each person applies to one mentor (for the most part), but ranks several others (usually). For a clinical personal statement, I would tailor it just to that one top person, because that usually works best (from what I understand, if you don't rank a certain faculty member first, they don't even look at you).

 

I know that at some IO programs this is not the case and thus one writes a more general personal statement (e.g. Minnesota).  But I was wondering, is it still encouraged to be specifically interested solely in one professor, is there any advantage to that? Or does it work better, for those programs (like Columbia, which is Social Organizational, though not technically IO is similar) that don't have you apply to a mentor, to express interest in as many of the faculty that you are actually interested in?  

 

Suggestions regarding this are often stated on each program website.  Of the programs I applied to, none stated that I had to apply to work with a specific POI.  However, more often than not, it was stated that it would be acceptable for me to mention in my personal statement specific faculty I wanted to work with. 

 

As with clinical, research fit is a primary consideration for programs so however you can demonstrate/discuss your fit with the program, then you should do that.  For each program I applied to, there were at least two faculty I wanted to work with.  I discussed this in my personal statements.  The caveat is, these faculty had related and overlapping interests.

 

But, mainly, carefully read though each program website to get an idea of what each one wants/expects regarding this.  Each program is slightly different.  I will say I get the impression that there are many I/O programs that are much looser in their mentor-model set up than are clinical programs.   Another thing you can do - if the program website doesn't answer your question sufficiently - is email the graduate program's coordinator for info about this.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Bren2014

[Engali]

OP,

 

You're a strong a candidate.  The one thing that sticks out to me as a potential issue is that it does seem like you jumped ship from Clinical and are going into I/O probably because it has better career prospects at this point in time.  I know--that was a complete mind read, but regardless of whether I am right or wrong, that is how it seems.  Why?

 

You didn't say specifically what areas of I/O interest you.  Your interest in I/O seems to spring from a waning interest in Clinical and isn't driven as much by I/O itself.  Honestly, right now before you go off to do some research, do you know the difference between  I and O?  Do you know the major topic areas?  Even more importantly, have you found professors who have I/O research interests that match your I/O research interests?

 

I/O programs are getting more and more competitive each cycle.  If you want to stand out, I suggest you get a good I/O texbook used off Amazon (an edtion or two older and it should be less than $20), read through the entire thing, and figure out what you're actually interested in.  From there, find out who the major and up-and-coming players are in those research areas.  Apply to programs based off of what you find.  You will be much more competitive in that you will have something of substance to say about I/O in your SOP that is informed by current research in the field and demonstrate a genuine interest in a research area.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Engali

[hmpsychology]

OP,

 

You're a strong a candidate.  The one thing that sticks out to me as a potential issue is that it does seem like you jumped ship from Clinical and are going into I/O probably because it has better career prospects at this point in time.  I know--that was a complete mind read, but regardless of whether I am right or wrong, that is how it seems.  Why?

 

You didn't say specifically what areas of I/O interest you.  Your interest in I/O seems to spring from a waning interest in Clinical and isn't driven as much by I/O itself.  Honestly, right now before you go off to do some research, do you know the difference between  I and O?  Do you know the major topic areas?  Even more importantly, have you found professors who have I/O research interests that match your I/O research interests?

 

I/O programs are getting more and more competitive each cycle.  If you want to stand out, I suggest you get a good I/O texbook used off Amazon (an edtion or two older and it should be less than $20), read through the entire thing, and figure out what you're actually interested in.  From there, find out who the major and up-and-coming players are in those research areas.  Apply to programs based off of what you find.  You will be much more competitive in that you will have something of substance to say about I/O in your SOP that is informed by current research in the field and demonstrate a genuine interest in a research area.

Thanks Engali, 

The reasons related to my change are heart aren't exactly related to job prospects, more so just what energizes me personally and what I am best suited for (which isn't academia or therapy anymore, though I still want to work with people in a way that helps them achieve their fullest potential).

It was a tough decision but I believe the correct one for me. But it is a good point about my application and how it will come off so I will get an IO book to learn more about the specific areas. Thank you for the tip I appreciate it !