Need help: debating on qutting

[HTisme]

First time posting, but I have quite a dilemma. I'll start with my backstory, to explain things.

 

I moved from NY and started my PhD program in fall 2012 at WSU-Pullman, but after the first semester, I didn't really like what it took for a PhD, so I reclassified to the MS program. Part of the problem was the project I was promised to work on for my degree was dropped and I wasn't told about it until I got there. My adviser also went on sabbatical that following semester (Spring 2013). At the end of the year, funding on my project got dropped and I had to find a new project to work on, without any help from my adviser. I didn't want to go back that fall, but decided to stick with it to make my parents happy and because I thought it deserved more of a fair chance.

 

I started a new project that I designed on my own that fall, but without any help from my adviser (who was absentee for all of 2013), it completely fell apart. He finally came back from sabattical and reassigned me to a modified version of my original project., and spring 2014 I spent mostly just doing nothing, which frustrated me immensely. I have more than enough credits for my degree, but still need another year here just for my thesis, and I can't finish it from home because of labwork. I also had to turn down a job offer for the summer to stay here after being told at the last minute that I needed to stay to take care of something for my thesis. I also ended up going to counseling that semester, but it was ineffective and they in fact told me to stop going because they thought it was pointless for someone like me.

 

Now, I'm immensely frustrated with the whole thing. I don't like labwork, and writing the thesis makes me miserable. I don't mind being a TA in the fall, but being a TA in the spring makes me pretty miserable as well (the guy I have to TA for in the spring is insufferable). Most of all, I really don't like living in Pullman. It's this really isolated town with nothing to do but drink. I also have no friends here, as I'm the only student in my lab and don't have much interaction with other grad students as a result (there's also infighting in our department, which is a dysfunctional mess). Also, the one person who would actually visit me here, my girlfriend, broke up with me a month ago (and how miserable I was in grad school played a part, as well as having to visit me in Pullman).

 

So, I don't like the labwork, or writing the thesis, and I really hate where I live. My adviser does not do much and was completely absent from everything in 2013. I also only came back last year for my parents, and stayed with it for my parents and girlfriend. When she dumped me, I took stock in my life and figured out how much I didn't want to be here for myself, and that I was doing it for others, but wanted to wait a bit to make sure a decision to leave wasn't made on emotional distress.

 

Well, a month later, I've decided I want to quit. I've spent enough time here, and I want to make money and actually enjoy my life again, and do things for myself, and to stop being so lonely; actually have a sense of accomplishment for my work. The problem is, I don't have a job yet and I'm on assistantship, and I don't want to burn bridges. Part of me also just wonders if I should stick it out, with only really having the thesis left to finish, leaving me unsure if leaving is really the right thing to do. I don't know how much longer I can stick here half-hearted, especially in case I get a job offer during the semester when I'm obligated to TA, and don't want to have to worry about being bound to this place just for that, but I also don't want to leave without a job.

 

Should I stay or should I go? Does anyone have experience with quitting? What do I do, and how do I bring this up with my adviser without sounding like a jerk? How can I make a smooth transition out? How can I make a smooth transition out of grad school and into the real world?

 

Thank you in advance for any responses. I really appreciate them, as I'm having a tough time with this and am very confused.

[fuzzylogician]

There is one thing I am confused about after reading this -- why does it need to take you a whole extra year to finish, when you've already been working on your thesis for a year? Why is it that you spent most of spring 2014 doing nothing, as you say? Have you had a meeting with your advisor where you very clearly define what needs to happen for you to have a defensible thesis? It seems to me that even though you've been working on something for a while, it's still not clear to anyone exactly what the scope of the project is and you don't have a timeline for completion. You seem resigned to this taking an extra year (in case you stay), but you have the entire summer ahead of you, plus the fall semester. That should really be enough. At this point my feeling is it's really too bad to walk away from two years of work without the degree, but from what you write I worry that you don't have well defined goals and that this is just going to be a mess. I think the best thing you can do to salvage the degree for yourself, since you've invested so much and have come so close, and the degree with be yours and not your family's, is to have a very serious conversation with your advisor where you very frankly say you want to be done by the spring. Ask for an agreed upon set of goals for a thesis, and work out a timeline for completion. If your advisor is unwilling or you don't see the point anymore, then I say don't stay there and let the disorganization take over your life. Either way, I think it's important for you to take action, very purposefully, to change the situation. I think that being proactive can be a good way to get back on your feet, whatever you choose to do. Don't let things just happen to  you! 

[HTisme]

First, thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

There is one thing I am confused about after reading this -- why does it need to take you a whole extra year to finish, when you've already been working on your thesis for a year? Why is it that you spent most of spring 2014 doing nothing, as you say? Have you had a meeting with your advisor where you very clearly define what needs to happen for you to have a defensible thesis? It seems to me that even though you've been working on something for a while, it's still not clear to anyone exactly what the scope of the project is and you don't have a timeline for completion. You seem resigned to this taking an extra year (in case you stay), but you have the entire summer ahead of you, plus the fall semester. That should really be enough. At this point my feeling is it's really too bad to walk away from two years of work without the degree, but from what you write I worry that you don't have well defined goals and that this is just going to be a mess. I think the best thing you can do to salvage the degree for yourself, since you've invested so much and have come so close, and the degree with be yours and not your family's, is to have a very serious conversation with your advisor where you very frankly say you want to be done by the spring. Ask for an agreed upon set of goals for a thesis, and work out a timeline for completion. If your advisor is unwilling or you don't see the point anymore, then I say don't stay there and let the disorganization take over your life. Either way, I think it's important for you to take action, very purposefully, to change the situation. I think that being proactive can be a good way to get back on your feet, whatever you choose to do. Don't let things just happen to  you! 

 

 

I had to switch projects, and WSU requires 2 years of scientific data for a MS degree. I guess I should explain my project a bit, as agricultural degrees don't have the same timelines for projects in terms of when you can work on them. It's a project on long-term storage of apples and their tissue density, so I can't get data until the fall when I pick the apples and then when I pull them out of storage, collecting all of it in late September/early October and late December/early January, so I basically am spending the summer here doing nothing. I also won't really be doing anything while my apples are in storage for 90 days, either. I won't be able to finish most of the thesis until I have the last of the data in early January. He's moved the goalposts for the project a couple times on me too and has made it much more elaborate than it initially was set out to be.

 

I spent fall 2012 getting some data for the first year, but had to do something completely different in 2013 because funding for my project was dropped, and my adviser was on sabbatical and completely absent. Because he found some money and switched me back this past spring when he came back, I couldn't do anything until the apples for this year are picked, so I literally had no research to work on in terms of my thesis for spring 2014. When I talked to him in May, his idea was for me to be finished with my data collection in December/January (it's a project on long-term apple storage/physiology) and then I finish writing the thesis and graduate in May 2015. He also isn't a fan of me trying to finish the thesis in absentia, so he'd prefer I stay in Pullman until next May, leaving me stuck here for a year if I stay.

 

I had goals when I came WSU, but they've changed quite a bit. I realized I didn't really like working in an academic setting after my first year (I am sure the disorganization here contributed to it), and that what I enjoy doing in terms of work doesn't really require an MS (I grew up selling fruit for my family's farm and I'd like to get back to selling produce and then eventually become a produce buyer or broker). I don't really want the degree for myself, and I don't know how to want it for myself. I do hate the prospect of wasting two years of my life, though, and don't want to disappoint others and am worried I might regret it, but I also just think I need to be able to collect myself away from here. Unfortunately, because of how my experiment is set up, I cannot take a leave of absence (ag sciences are such a pain!).

 

I'm just really confused now.

[fuzzylogician]

First, thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

I had to switch projects, and WSU requires 2 years of scientific data for a MS degree. I guess I should explain my project a bit, as agricultural degrees don't have the same timelines for projects in terms of when you can work on them. It's a project on long-term storage of apples and their tissue density, so I can't get data until the fall when I pick the apples and then when I pull them out of storage, collecting all of it in late September/early October and late December/early January, so I basically am spending the summer here doing nothing. I also won't really be doing anything while my apples are in storage for 90 days, either. I won't be able to finish most of the thesis until I have the last of the data in early January. He's moved the goalposts for the project a couple times on me too and has made it much more elaborate than it initially was set out to be.

 

I spent fall 2012 getting some data for the first year, but had to do something completely different in 2013 because funding for my project was dropped, and my adviser was on sabbatical and completely absent. Because he found some money and switched me back this past spring when he came back, I couldn't do anything until the apples for this year are picked, so I literally had no research to work on in terms of my thesis for spring 2014. When I talked to him in May, his idea was for me to be finished with my data collection in December/January (it's a project on long-term apple storage/physiology) and then I finish writing the thesis and graduate in May 2015. He also isn't a fan of me trying to finish the thesis in absentia, so he'd prefer I stay in Pullman until next May, leaving me stuck here for a year if I stay.

 

I had goals when I came WSU, but they've changed quite a bit. I realized I didn't really like working in an academic setting after my first year (I am sure the disorganization here contributed to it), and that what I enjoy doing in terms of work doesn't really require an MS (I grew up selling fruit for my family's farm and I'd like to get back to selling produce and then eventually become a produce buyer or broker). I don't really want the degree for myself, and I don't know how to want it for myself. I do hate the prospect of wasting two years of my life, though, and don't want to disappoint others and am worried I might regret it, but I also just think I need to be able to collect myself away from here. Unfortunately, because of how my experiment is set up, I cannot take a leave of absence (ag sciences are such a pain!).

 

I'm just really confused now.

 

Oh, this explains a lot, and all I can say is gosh that must suck! There is some of that in linguistics if you don't have accessible speakers for a language you are working on and have to go to the field, which is expensive and time consuming and just generally not easy to do -- but in those cases (at least in my program) faculty make sure that the student has other projects that they can work on in the meanwhile so they're never just sitting there waiting for a whole semester. You program honestly just sounds like a bad place to be--this must be a known issue that is just part of how research is done in your field and it should be your advisor's and program's responsibility to prevent precisely what is happening now. It really shouldn't happen that a student is stuck for so long, as part of an MS. I am now upset for you for attending a program that can't take care of its students and has therefore made you not like a field that you might have otherwise enjoyed! 

 

That said, the way I am reading your latest post, it seems to me that you should not continue with the degree in its current form. I have two thoughts. First, if you don't think the degree will be useful for your career, at least not in the foreseeable future, then don't do it if it's making you miserable. You could always go back to school and study a degree in something more relevant a few years from now, once you have a better idea of what it is that you want to do exactly and what degree you need to get you there. The degree should be a means to an end, not a goal in and of itself. I understand that it feels bad to walk away from the degree and you worry about what people will think, but it's your life and you shouldn't suffer just to make your parents happy. Also, this has not been a complete waste of time, though I'm not going to sit here and argue that it was the most useful thing you could have done, either. It looks like you learned things about yourself, and you are able to articulate fairly well what your next career move should be. Knowing what you want to do with your life is a hard thing to do. You also learned what you don't like--e.g., academia, or at least this subfield that you're studying now--and that, too, is useful information. So don't let anybody tell you that you were just wasting time. 

 

Now, on the more practical side, if you can get yourself in the mindset where you are able and willing to just walk away from this all, I wonder if there is a way to negotiate things so you can finish the degree on your terms. You said your advisor prefers it if you don't write the thesis in absentia. So what. Is it possible to do that, technically? Do you think you are able to walk into a meeting and say that you have decided you can't stay in town, and are willing to quit the degree if necessary, but is there some way to make it work where you'll be around just for the time when it's actually required and otherwise you'll communicate via email/skype? It really doesn't sound like you have to be there for any reason other than your advisor prefers it. So, if he helps you make it work, you get the degree with minimal time there, and otherwise you cut your losses and leave this unsupportive environment before it drags you down any further. If you are able to get into this mindset, I think you can think of this discussion as 'win-win'.

[TakeruK]

In addition to what fuzzy said, it might be a good idea to check the Graduate Handbook or Catalog or whatever you call the book of policies governing degree requirements. At my program, the minimum time in residence for a PhD is 1 year, which means, in theory, a student can complete the rest of their degree in absentia, if they just need to write. Like fuzzy said, it would be a good idea to distinguish what is necessary and what your advisor just prefers. The grad handbook would be a good place to find these things!

[HTisme]

I would have to stay until December-early January at the very least to finish my labwork, and I don't know if I could handle that. I haven't seen any family or friends and I can't until Thanksgiving at the earliest if I stay. After January, I probably could leave and finish it in absentia, but that's such a long time of being in almost complete isolation here. The one person who actually was willing to visit me in Pullman isn't in my life anymore, which has also made it tough to stay.

 

Looking at big-picture, it's not that much longer staying if my adviser actually lets me finish in absentia, but he's been pretty wishy-washy on the whole thing. I also just don't really like working on the thesis anymore, or the labwork. I used to at the beginning, but I've just hated it more and more as I've been here, and I don't really know why. 

 

I am fairly sure I want to quit, but part of me feels like I should stay. I also have no idea how to approach this with my adviser, and feel bad telling him I want out and don't want to burn bridges. I also feel so wary of leaving without a job, but don't want to be committed to the entire fall to TA.

[seeingeyeduck]

He may become more accommodating once he knows just how miserable you are there. Don't threaten to leave for leverage but be honest about how you're feeling right now. If he thinks you're fine with doing what he says, he will make no effort to accommodate you.

[PsychGirl1]

My suggestion: take a step back and take a week or two away at home (or with friends, or in a new city, whatever). You should get some time off if needed, especially over the summer, and especially if you can't be working on your thesis right now. Explain to your professor that you need a mental health break of a week or two. During your time off, don't check your phone or your email, don't think about grad school, and just relax. When you get back, take a day where you sit down with some blank paper, draw out the pros and cons, and brainstorm options. My gut reaction says that you should stick it out and get your master's (you've already done most of the work and the time, and you never know when an advanced degree will be handy down the line) but make some pretty significant changes to your life to make it bearable. To meet people, try meetup or online dating or picking up a hobby (sports, a musical instrument, whatever). Join the graduate students association or whatever else your school has to meet grad students outside of your department.

 

Also, I take issue with one of your comments: "I also ended up going to counseling that semester, but it was ineffective and they in fact told me to stop going because they thought it was pointless for someone like me." You clearly need to see a different psychologist/counselor/therapist- these sorts of transitions and life decisions are actually exactly many people end up in therapy and find it useful. Sometimes it takes trying out a few different people before you find the right click between therapist and client. You could also try meeting with someone who does career guidance/counseling (I met with one when I was planning my career change back in 2009/2010 and it helped to clarify things for me).

 

I know it sucks now, but in 5-10 years, you don't want to be kicking yourself for wasting this time and opportunity, and feeling like your withdraw was just a knee-jerk reaction to a crappy city, a breakup, and social isolation. If you do withdrawal, make sure you do it on a clear head, after some vacation time, and after well thought-out and significant attempts to fix the situation have not worked.

[HTisme]

I can't go home to clear my head, though. If I want to finish my degree, I have to stay here until Thanksgiving. I have to take care of the trees that will be producing the apples for my project, which at this point is basically just running irrigation. My adviser doesn't want anyone else, including himself messing with it, so I have to stay here through the summer just to water my apple trees twice a week, which is really frustrating because I was originally only going to stay until mid-June and then spend a month and a half at home to collect myself, but the goalposts were moved yet again by my adviser.

 

At this point, it's either stay here in Pullman alone until Thanksgiving, or don't get the degree. I really wish I could just work on it somewhere else, because it would be nice to actually have the piece of paper after all the work, but I just can't handle it anymore here. It's really hard to focus, or even want to do the work now. I feel really burned out, and could really use seeing some friends and family, but I can't if I want the degree. It's a crappy spot to be in.

[PsychGirl1]

I can't go home to clear my head, though. If I want to finish my degree, I have to stay here until Thanksgiving. I have to take care of the trees that will be producing the apples for my project, which at this point is basically just running irrigation. My adviser doesn't want anyone else, including himself messing with it, so I have to stay here through the summer just to water my apple trees twice a week, which is really frustrating because I was originally only going to stay until mid-June and then spend a month and a half at home to collect myself, but the goalposts were moved yet again by my adviser.

 

At this point, it's either stay here in Pullman alone until Thanksgiving, or don't get the degree. I really wish I could just work on it somewhere else, because it would be nice to actually have the piece of paper after all the work, but I just can't handle it anymore here. It's really hard to focus, or even want to do the work now. I feel really burned out, and could really use seeing some friends and family, but I can't if I want the degree. It's a crappy spot to be in.

 

This is highly unreasonable. Tell him that you need to be gone for 2 weeks in August, and you will spend July training someone- including himself- how to water the trees FOUR TIMES. What if you had a family emergency and had to unexpectedly leave town? What if you got ill and had to spend some time recovering or in the hospital? Who would water your plants? I'm being completely serious, by the way. You should treat your mental health time as serious as these scenarios. Most importantly, these scenarios are possible, and someone- ANYONE- should be trained on how to water the plants twice a week if you need to be gone. Especially because your original agreement was that you would leave for SIX weeks, so really, this is a compromise.

 

In grad school, there are MANY times where you need to nod your head and agree with your adviser and suck up the ramifications and go cry in the bathroom afterward if need be. This does not sound like one of them. You need to stand up for yourself, inform him that you NEED to be gone for these two weeks, and you are happy to spend the next 2-3 weeks getting a system in place where someone can water your trees for you in your absence. You should also remind him that training a backup is a good idea, in case any of the above unexpected scenarios occur. You need to tell him that you can be flexible on the dates of these vacation weeks, but the vacation weeks themselves are non-negotiable- but that you are willing to do *anything* that needs to be done before or after to make these two weeks a possibility. I realize I'm not in the situation, but it sounds like you're not standing up for yourself, being firm, and problem solving, and instead just taking your conversations with your adviser, leaving, and feeling crappy about it. Maybe that sounds a bit unfair or harsh, but if choice A (dropping out) or choice B (sticking it out without ever leaving) isn't ideal, then it's time to put in the work to shovel a path that leads to choice C and maximize what you can from a crappy situation.

[fuzzylogician]

This is highly unreasonable. Tell him that you need to be gone for 2 weeks in August, and you will spend July training someone- including himself- how to water the trees FOUR TIMES. What if you had a family emergency and had to unexpectedly leave town? What if you got ill and had to spend some time recovering or in the hospital? Who would water your plants? I'm being completely serious, by the way. You should treat your mental health time as serious as these scenarios. Most importantly, these scenarios are possible, and someone- ANYONE- should be trained on how to water the plants twice a week if you need to be gone. Especially because your original agreement was that you would leave for SIX weeks, so really, this is a compromise.

 

This. I agree with it all. Your advisor is being completely unreasonable. We're talking about watering trees twice a week, for goodness sake. For that you are being asked to sacrifice your mental health? No one else can do it? I just do not believe that 's true. There HAS to be someone who is able to take over this task for two weeks, even longer. If not, someone had better be trained. I find it hard to believe that it's that difficult to find someone who is qualified to water your trees or who could be trained to do so. You NEED to take a break, it's important for your mental health, and you should treat it as the priority that it is. Is there someone at your university who you could turn to for support in negotiating with your advisor? There must be some support group or health services provided by your university. It sounds like it'd help a lot if you had some external validation of your position and help in confronting your advisor and negotiating something you can live with that doesn't require not taking a break until November.

[HTisme]

My adviser is more being obstinate than anything else, because they have people running things at the university orchard, which originally had me furious in the first place that I had to stay for that very reason (thought it was ludicrous I had to stay when the university already pays people to take care of them). His stance is that since it's my project, I need to take care of all of it myself, which is a fair opinion to have (he also had me design most of the project on my own as well). I'm going to talk to him on Monday. I think I'd like to quit, but I'm going to ask if there's a way I could spend some time away to get my head straight. I don't have to harvest my apples for my project until the end of September at the earliest, though I'd need to be back to TA again if I stay. If I could, I'd really like to just come for harvesting my apples and initial tests on them, and then go back home to NY until I pull them out of storage and do my last tests.

 

In all honesty, though, I'd really like to never come back to Pullman again. There's a lot of bad memories associated with being here, I'd rather be making money at a job and have more of routine living in a much more desirable location, especially because I'm not really in it for myself anymore and dislike labwork and writing the thesis. I would like to finish if possible (though I don't have a burning desire to, and it's more to make my parents happy), so I'll see if there is any way I can leave for an extended period and come back maybe in late August or something after I've cleared my head a bit, as leaving the program is extreme.

 

Finally, as for not standing firm with my adviser. I do have trouble communicating with him. I've always felt really indebted to him for taking a chance on me, so I have trouble standing firm with him. I've expressed my dissatisfaction with the situation, but he never gives me anything firm when it comes to scheduling committee meetings or having more concrete plans (ended up costing me a job this spring, actually). In May, when I had my annual progress review meeting, I asked about going home for a while, and he never really gave me anything firm on when I could actually leave, save for when he's added things for me. He's extremely hands-off about things, save for when he thinks of new duties and tasks to add to my project, and actually never really gives anything firm when it comes to deadlines, and always flip flops (like when I tried to get a job this spring, where he was against it until the semester ended, and then changed his tune when it was too late for me to accept the offer); it's incredibly frustrating working with no deadlines and with things constantly shifting on me.

 

Working for him is really frustrating, as there's barely any consistency, save for him shifting things and randomly adding more duties to my project. I'd really like to quit, as I think moving somewhere and finally getting a start on my professional career with actual work will help my mental health (and social life, which would be good for my mental health, too). I will try to compromise with my adviser for one last chance to see if there's a way I can leave for a while and still finish my degree, just because it is hard throwing away the last two years of my life like that.

 

I also made a pro/con list for staying versus leaving and I have 3 cons to 8 pros when it comes to leaving, and 8 cons and 3 pros when it comes to staying.

[Vene]

My adviser is more being obstinate than anything else, because they have people running things at the university orchard, which originally had me furious in the first place that I had to stay for that very reason (thought it was ludicrous I had to stay when the university already pays people to take care of them). His stance is that since it's my project, I need to take care of all of it myself, which is a fair opinion to have (he also had me design most of the project on my own as well).

Taking care of it yourself can easily mean that you find the people to do the work you need done. For fuck's sake, that's not even at the level of technician work. This sounds like he's trying to teach you to micromanage.

[PsychGirl1]

My adviser is more being obstinate than anything else, because they have people running things at the university orchard, which originally had me furious in the first place that I had to stay for that very reason (thought it was ludicrous I had to stay when the university already pays people to take care of them). His stance is that since it's my project, I need to take care of all of it myself, which is a fair opinion to have (he also had me design most of the project on my own as well). I'm going to talk to him on Monday. I think I'd like to quit, but I'm going to ask if there's a way I could spend some time away to get my head straight. I don't have to harvest my apples for my project until the end of September at the earliest, though I'd need to be back to TA again if I stay. If I could, I'd really like to just come for harvesting my apples and initial tests on them, and then go back home to NY until I pull them out of storage and do my last tests.

 

In all honesty, though, I'd really like to never come back to Pullman again. There's a lot of bad memories associated with being here, I'd rather be making money at a job and have more of routine living in a much more desirable location, especially because I'm not really in it for myself anymore and dislike labwork and writing the thesis. I would like to finish if possible (though I don't have a burning desire to, and it's more to make my parents happy), so I'll see if there is any way I can leave for an extended period and come back maybe in late August or something after I've cleared my head a bit, as leaving the program is extreme.

 

Finally, as for not standing firm with my adviser. I do have trouble communicating with him. I've always felt really indebted to him for taking a chance on me, so I have trouble standing firm with him. I've expressed my dissatisfaction with the situation, but he never gives me anything firm when it comes to scheduling committee meetings or having more concrete plans (ended up costing me a job this spring, actually). In May, when I had my annual progress review meeting, I asked about going home for a while, and he never really gave me anything firm on when I could actually leave, save for when he's added things for me. He's extremely hands-off about things, save for when he thinks of new duties and tasks to add to my project, and actually never really gives anything firm when it comes to deadlines, and always flip flops (like when I tried to get a job this spring, where he was against it until the semester ended, and then changed his tune when it was too late for me to accept the offer); it's incredibly frustrating working with no deadlines and with things constantly shifting on me.

 

Working for him is really frustrating, as there's barely any consistency, save for him shifting things and randomly adding more duties to my project. I'd really like to quit, as I think moving somewhere and finally getting a start on my professional career with actual work will help my mental health (and social life, which would be good for my mental health, too). I will try to compromise with my adviser for one last chance to see if there's a way I can leave for a while and still finish my degree, just because it is hard throwing away the last two years of my life like that.

 

I also made a pro/con list for staying versus leaving and I have 3 cons to 8 pros when it comes to leaving, and 8 cons and 3 pros when it comes to staying.

 

This sounds like the problem. It sounds like he's a bit absent-minded, you two have poor communication, and maybe you're not making it clear how important this is. You need to schedule a meeting with him and tell him you have important things to discuss, and firmly tell him what has been going on. You need to tell him you do feel gratitude that he took you on as his student, but you are going through a rough patch and need some time away. Pull out a piece of paper and tell him you're not leaving until you two have mapped out a firm plan and a compromise :-). You can be firm but respectful and polite at the same time. It is VERY likely he has no idea this is going on or that you feel this way, or even that his change in plans have impacted your quality of life so significantly. It is time to communicate all this.

 

Honestly, I've been in the situation where I've hated where I was and just wanted to leave ASAP. I completely understand. But a master's degree can help you in unexpected ways throughout your life, whether it's helping you get your dream job, getting you some extra pay, etc. and you've already done 80% of the actual work that needs to be done for your degree. I think it will be a real shame if you drop out now, and one that you might regret once you get some distance from the situation and the personal things that have happened over the past few months. I would come up with whatever it is that you NEED- if it's two months off, whatever- and then sit down and have a firm conversation about it. You have nothing to lose.

[HTisme]

Taking care of it yourself can easily mean that you find the people to do the work you need done. For fuck's sake, that's not even at the level of technician work. This sounds like he's trying to teach you to micromanage.

 

He's told me he only wants me doing it since it's my project. The people who run the university orchard (who my adviser also is in charge of) don't touch the block anymore save for spraying pesticides because he wants me handling it all on my own, so he's had them back off of it.

[HTisme]

This sounds like the problem. It sounds like he's a bit absent-minded, you two have poor communication, and maybe you're not making it clear how important this is. You need to schedule a meeting with him and tell him you have important things to discuss, and firmly tell him what has been going on. You need to tell him you do feel gratitude that he took you on as his student, but you are going through a rough patch and need some time away. Pull out a piece of paper and tell him you're not leaving until you two have mapped out a firm plan and a compromise :-). You can be firm but respectful and polite at the same time. It is VERY likely he has no idea this is going on or that you feel this way, or even that his change in plans have impacted your quality of life so significantly. It is time to communicate all this.

 

Honestly, I've been in the situation where I've hated where I was and just wanted to leave ASAP. I completely understand. But a master's degree can help you in unexpected ways throughout your life, whether it's helping you get your dream job, getting you some extra pay, etc. and you've already done 80% of the actual work that needs to be done for your degree. I think it will be a real shame if you drop out now, and one that you might regret once you get some distance from the situation and the personal things that have happened over the past few months. I would come up with whatever it is that you NEED- if it's two months off, whatever- and then sit down and have a firm conversation about it. You have nothing to lose.

 

My gameplan is that tomorrow, I'm going to sit down with him and tell him that I'm going through a really rough patch, and that I really need to spend some time away from here because being here is contributing to that rough patch, which is causing my aversion/apathy towards my thesis and the degree. I'll explain that a lot has happened in my personal life, and that I really need to get away for a while and would like a way to work things out so I can go away for a while. If he can't agree to a compromise on that, I'll just walk, and I'll have no problem doing so.

 

I think I might regret not getting the Master's, but I absolutely hate doing labwork, and I don't really like writing the thesis. I'm wondering if I can even put in 100% effort anymore, because the last year or so has really destroyed my confidence and drive here. It's just something I don't really want anymore, and something I don't necessarily believe is worth all the crap I've been put through for it, but I can't help feeling like it's something I should have. At the same time, I'm so miserable and lonely here, and I really just want to move on with my life, and staying here just makes me feel like I'm putting everything on hold.

 

I don't really feel good about leaving, because I worry about possibly regretting it; but I also don't feel good about staying because I know how much I dislike the labwork, thesis, and the town, and the loneliness and wonder if I can really handle another 6 months of it. I feel like there's no winning in this situation.

[PsychGirl1]

Well good luck tomorrow! Hopefully if you can get away for a month or two, you will come back with enough energy to survive the last 4-5 months and make them bearable.

 

I felt this way at some point during my thesis in my master's program, but nothing felt as good as graduating and receiving the final, bound copy.

 

Let us know how it goes.

[HTisme]

So, I talked to my adviser. I told him how I really wanted to finish the degree, but had a lot going on in my personal life that has me needing to be closer to home.

 

Yet again, he didn't give me anything firm in terms of when I could be able have the degree done, or in terms of how long I could go home. Basically told me I had to be back by the end of August when the semester starts, but if I want to leave, I need to put in a lot of heavy work. Didn't really specify what he wanted, though.

 

As for finishing the program, not having anything firm on that really frustrated me. I wanted to be out by early January, but he basically made it seem like I had to stay through the whole spring if I want my degree.

 

Overall, it wasn't really productive. It was a whole lot of "it's up to you" and not really anything firm. I was really hoping for something more firm, and it was just more of the same. I don't think I can handle any more of the same, and I just don't know if I have a few weeks of heavy work in me, just to go home. The other way around might have worked out, because I just am so burned out on the loneliness and living here and my dislike of labwork that it's tough to just even get out of bed.

 

I don't know. I was really hoping for more out of that meeting, but it was just more vague and non-concrete answers. I know what I get out is what I'm putting in, but I at least wanted something more firm than "it's up to you." I wanted some more guidance than that, and was hoping something from it would help find that spark again, and it didn't. I'm left feeling really disappointed from that meeting.

Edited July 8, 2014 by HTisme

[fuzzylogician]

I don't know. I was really hoping for more out of that meeting, but it was just more vague and non-concrete answers. I know what I get out is what I'm putting in, but I at least wanted something more firm than "it's up to you." I wanted some more guidance than that, and was hoping something from it would help find that spark again, and it didn't. I'm left feeling really disappointed from that meeting.

 

Alright, so if it's up to you, why don't you do what you want? Make a plan to leave now, and simply tell your advisor that that's what you need to do. I don't buy the 'heavy work' story, since all you're doing at the moment is watering your trees twice a week and waiting for time to pass. So, make arrangements to have the trees watered by the university, and leave! Have your break, then decide what you want to do with your degree.  

[HTisme]

Alright, so if it's up to you, why don't you do what you want? Make a plan to leave now, and simply tell your advisor that that's what you need to do. I don't buy the 'heavy work' story, since all you're doing at the moment is watering your trees twice a week and waiting for time to pass. So, make arrangements to have the trees watered by the university, and leave! Have your break, then decide what you want to do with your degree.  

 

He meant by heavy work, to write more of the thesis and learn a few new assays in addition to watering my trees. He wants more of my thesis done and these lab techniques perfected before I can go home. I don't really like doing labwork, though, and the thesis writing just makes me miserable (though I finished few sections already this summe). Only way he said he'd be fine with me leaving, but I feel really, really burned out in general with the project and everything happening in my personal life. I wish I could go home and get my head on straight again before making a decision, but he's not really granting me that luxury.

 

I just want to get home at this point. I just don't feel like I really have much more in me, and could really use seeing some friends and family.

[PsychGirl1]

What about leaving now, and telling him you'll be back in early-to-mid August to work on the lab techniques and your thesis? That will give you a month now as opposed to more work for 2-3 weeks and a month later. If he keeps saying it's up to you, then it's up to you. Tell him you're comfortable that you can get the thesis done but you need the time off now and can do those things when you get back. You can also always write from home. I clearly wasn't there for the conversations, but the tone of your posts makes me suspicious and like you can get what you want if you approach it the right away. For example: "I know what I get out is what I'm putting in, but I at least wanted something more firm than "it's up to you."" It sounds like you are just waiting for him to come to you, when it's clearly not going to happen.

 

This reminds me a lot of one of my advisers, and actually I felt similarly to you for the first few months I worked with them. They would "strongly recommend" through a noncommittal ramble that I do x, y, z- a lot of it pointless, causing extra work, etc.. and every conversations, their recommendations or tasks or timelines would change. I spent a few months getting upset, frustrated, spinning my wheels, doing extra work, etc. But I eventually learned to listen to what they had to say, give it some thought, and then counteract with something like, "that makes sense, however, I've been thinking more like xyz." Then to whip out the most important thing- preparation. For example, "here is the detailed timeline I created (hand them printed timeline with tasks laid out), this is what I would like to do and here is why and here is evidence that we can get it all done in time". And every single time I approached it like this, they would agree with me and be on board. And things went so much smoother after that, and it also helped me gained confidence in myself and enjoy my work WAY more. Sometimes, you just have to force them to commit. For example, write up a finalized list of tasks that you need to do to graduate, and get their feedback on it so you are both on the same page. And if he does email, do it through email so that you can remind him of what he previously said, if needed. Sometimes graduate school can feel more like managing your adviser than it does anything else :-D. I hit a similar point with the adviser I mentioned above- it was just sink or swim. Either you need to adapt to make this relationship work, or you need to call it quits. For me, it was an opportunity for personal growth and going through it eventually let me re-enjoy my research and the process. Instead of thinking it as your adviser telling you what to do, think of it as a mutually beneficial coworker relationship where you are expected to direct the boat just as much as he is expected to guide it.

 

If I were you, my next step would be a day or two of compiling my thoughts, a list of the tasks that need to be done for graduation, and a timeline (which includes however much vacation you need and the extra things he mentioned today). Then I would email it to him with a polite email about how you appreciate the meeting today, but this time off is important for you if you will be continuing on in graduate school, and ask him for specific feedback, issues, questions, etc. on the timeline and list of tasks. Clearly, you are on this board asking us for advice, so you're not 100% ready to call it quits yet. Good luck

Edited July 9, 2014 by PsychGirl1

[seeingeyeduck]

^ This is great advice. It sounds like you are waiting to take your cues from him right now. Instead, try "here is my plan, please approve it." Maybe he is just worried that if you go now you're unlikely to return and finish the work. You can allay those fears with a detailed timeline.

I don't see why you have to stay now if the university has people to take care of the trees.

[fuzzylogician]

I have to agree with the comments above. I think you are expecting something from your advisor that he is not able to give you. You want him to hold your hand and make the decisions for you, and he is telling you that you need to make your own decisions. It's an unfortunate personality mismatch--it's legitimate to want this, but it just looks like your advisor has a different mentoring style. I think PsychGirl gave you very good advice. You need to make your own plans--basically decide when you want to go and for how long, and inform your advisor that this is what you're doing. Come with a plan for doing the things that you think need to be done for your thesis and an opinion about why anything else he wants doesn't actually make sense. Get his basic agreement to this plan, but don't feel like you're now too committed. After you've been gone for a bit and cleared your head, you can reassess your situation. It seems to me that in fact a lot of writing and preparation for the final stage of actually testing your trees can be done from afar, and that's something you could consider. It's easier to make that decision when you're already away. But in any event, the first step is to make a concrete plan for leaving soon, and telling your advisor that's what you're doing. Once again, asking for his permission or his help doesn't seem to get you anywhere, so you need to make the decision!

[ticks_and_stuff]

My gameplan is that tomorrow, I'm going to sit down with him and tell him that I'm going through a really rough patch, and that I really need to spend some time away from here because being here is contributing to that rough patch, which is causing my aversion/apathy towards my thesis and the degree. I'll explain that a lot has happened in my personal life, and that I really need to get away for a while and would like a way to work things out so I can go away for a while. If he can't agree to a compromise on that, I'll just walk, and I'll have no problem doing so.

 

I think I might regret not getting the Master's, but I absolutely hate doing labwork, and I don't really like writing the thesis. I'm wondering if I can even put in 100% effort anymore, because the last year or so has really destroyed my confidence and drive here. It's just something I don't really want anymore, and something I don't necessarily believe is worth all the crap I've been put through for it, but I can't help feeling like it's something I should have. At the same time, I'm so miserable and lonely here, and I really just want to move on with my life, and staying here just makes me feel like I'm putting everything on hold.

 

I don't really feel good about leaving, because I worry about possibly regretting it; but I also don't feel good about staying because I know how much I dislike the labwork, thesis, and the town, and the loneliness and wonder if I can really handle another 6 months of it. I feel like there's no winning in this situation.

 

 

Pullman can be a very lonely town for grad students. If you want to grab a cup of coffee let me know - Cafe Moro is a great place to unwind and there are many fellow grad students that spend many hours there.