YDS students!

[HNV721]

I am looking at applying for the MAR at YDS for fall 2015. Can any of you explain the difference between the comprehensive and concentrated paths? I am interesting in pursuing a PhD afterward, so I am looking for the best route to that. Also, I saw where some students transfer from the comprehensive to the concentrated. How difficult is that?

 

Thanks

[AbrasaxEos]

A few years out here, but I did a concentrated M.A.R. at YDS in Hebrew Bible.  The concentrated is the best for pursuing a PhD, as that is what it is really designed for.  However, it is also more competitive for this reason.  Your undergrad preparation would need to be slightly more focused to get into it, though I think that this depends on what you are concentrating in.  Some of the biblical studies-focused ones put a lot of emphasis on existing language preparation, but I am less sure about the other areas, maybe someone else can speak to this if your interests lay there.

 

Comprehensive is designed more for those wishing to get a general sense of things, without delving too deeply into any one specific area, I am not 100% sure what people do with such a degree, but it is good for someone who might not be interested in academia, but also not interested in going towards the professionalized degree path that the MDiv offers.  It isn't hard to transfer, and many people do.  Sometimes if you apply for a concentrated M.A.R., they committee will admit you to the Comprehensive, and suggest petitioning for a transfer a year in.  It is more so that they can see whether you actually have the scholarly chops to do the work.  Depending on where you did your undergrad, the adcom may not have a sense of whether you actually did rigorous work, or whether you stood out among a confederacy of dunces, and were given exemplary grades for what is actually mediocre work.

[theophany]

As Abrasax wrote, but to state it more firmly, the MAR Comprehensive is not envisioned as a preparation for a PhD program. It is two years, with two courses in each of the areas of the curriculum (Bible, Theology/Ethics, History, Ministry, Culture/Comparative) and six total electives--half the courses each semester, and half overall which have to be at the div school. (Before anyone tries to correct me, this is in effect for this incoming class.) With this broad a swath in such a short time, you will not be able to get enough in depth in any one focus to sufficiently prepare for a PhD program. Most people use the MAR Comp in conjunction with something else (like a JD, MEd) to add a religious competency to their work. Recent MAR Comp grads are working doing religious journalism, are lawyers interested in religious claims, etc.

 

The MAR Concentrates are all designed for the purpose of PhD preparation in particular fields. Worksheets for all of those can be accessed here: http://divinity.yale.edu/academic-affairs-students. 

Edited July 23, 2014 by theophany

[HNV721]

Has anybody gone through the process of transferring from comprehensive to concentrated? How easy is it? Would it be really risky to try that?

[AbrasaxEos]

I think it would be worthwhile to go just go for the concentrated to begin with - the comprehensive isn't really made for what you want to do, and I think that if your interests are in American Religious History that unless you felt as though your preparation was very poor or had some serious problems with GPA or something, why bother shooting for what is really less than what you want to do?

[HNV721]

Agreed, AbrasaxEos. I do not have a huge problem with GPA, but I started slow in college. I transferred from my first school after my freshman year and finished with a 3.9 institutional GPA and graduated summa. From what I have seen, YDS does not ask for the GRE, right? If they do, I scored in the 87th-percentile on verbal, so I am not really sure where that stacks up. Actually I am not sure how my profile stacks up at all, but I guess I will be finding out soon with acceptance + rejection letters.

[theophany]

Agreed, AbrasaxEos. I do not have a huge problem with GPA, but I started slow in college. I transferred from my first school after my freshman year and finished with a 3.9 institutional GPA and graduated summa. From what I have seen, YDS does not ask for the GRE, right? If they do, I scored in the 87th-percentile on verbal, so I am not really sure where that stacks up. Actually I am not sure how my profile stacks up at all, but I guess I will be finding out soon with acceptance + rejection letters.

 

Correct, no GRE required at YDS. (You can submit it if you want to.) From this, it sounds like you should be fine. Make sure you have a good set of letters of recommendation and personal statement.

 

And I agee with Abrasax... Apply to the concentrate and not the comprehensive. Your application is going to look funny if you know you want to do American Religious History and are applying to a degree that is a general overview...you'll have to contort your personal statement to say that you have broad, general interests, etc.

[diazalon]

Recent YDS grad here, throwing my recommendation behind what has already been said. There are not a lot of students in the MAR comprehensive, and I do not know a single one who foresees moving on to doctoral work. Generally it is for students who are interested in a Masters in Religion as a matter of course, but not in moving on in the academic study of religion. Students can, and do switch from the comprehensive to the concentrated, but it requires approval of your advisor, the dean of academics, and your proposed new advisor (who will want to have you in class before she/he takes you on as a student). If you know what you want to do, don't apply for the comprehensive. 

[chodson]

interesting...Yale, for me at the outset, is also atop my list. Planning on visiting in October. 

 

Now, if I should apply for concentrated ethics (fall '15) might they not accept me in that domain and throw me into the comprehensive pile? Is it the same admissions faculty? 

 

I am also at that juncture where I am not sure if I want to pursue a Ph.D....interested - broadly - in the intersections of faith, ethics, law, and public policy. So maybe a JD/MPP after instead? 

[colormelovely]

Recent YDS grad here, throwing my recommendation behind what has already been said. There are not a lot of students in the MAR comprehensive, and I do not know a single one who foresees moving on to doctoral work. Generally it is for students who are interested in a Masters in Religion as a matter of course, but not in moving on in the academic study of religion. Students can, and do switch from the comprehensive to the concentrated, but it requires approval of your advisor, the dean of academics, and your proposed new advisor (who will want to have you in class before she/he takes you on as a student). If you know what you want to do, don't apply for the comprehensive.

If you don't mind sharing, what was your undergrad preparation like? I'm curious about the criteria YDS expects for the comprehensive vs. the concentrated.

[diazalon]

interesting...Yale, for me at the outset, is also atop my list. Planning on visiting in October. 

 

Now, if I should apply for concentrated ethics (fall '15) might they not accept me in that domain and throw me into the comprehensive pile? Is it the same admissions faculty? 

 

I don't think this is the policy - generally you are considered for the track for which you apply. Definitely ask when you visit (and definitely visit. It bodes well). 

 

If you don't mind sharing, what was your undergrad preparation like? I'm curious about the criteria YDS expects for the comprehensive vs. the concentrated.

 

B+ GPA at a flagship state university, Greek and German, a handful of doctoral seminars during my time as an undergraduate, honors thesis in the concentration, recommendation from chair of the department. I can't say what the comparison with the comprehensive is, but I think generally comprehensive students tend to be more 'well rounded,' so to speak, and needn't have worked in earnest already on religious studies or theology. 

[theophany]

I am also at that juncture where I am not sure if I want to pursue a Ph.D....interested - broadly - in the intersections of faith, ethics, law, and public policy. So maybe a JD/MPP after instead? 

 

I would still say, given this, that you should apply to the concentrate rather than the comprehensive. The MAR Ethics > JD/MPP is a relatively well-trod path; anecdotally, if I remember correctly, there are more MAR Ethics alums going for JDs or MPPs than there are in PhD programs (not because they didn't get in, but because they decided that they didn't want to apply at all).

 

Diazalon is in a field that requires different preparation from ethics, so don't let his background scare you. Many are admitted to the MAR Ethics with no languages and with only having done some basic work in philosophy or theology as an undergrad. That said, the ethics faculty right now at YDS is way overworked and it's likely they'll be taking fewer students for the next few years. Starkly, there's only one tenured faculty (who is academic dean and only teaches one seminar a semester), and at the end of next year there will be no junior faculty; that is, there will be only 1 of 4 possible professor positions filled in ethics. They fill the gaps with lecturers and visiting professors, but if memory serves, lecturers don't serve as advisors and so don't contribute to the number of students to be taken.

 

In short, though, talk to Sean McAvoy (the asst. director of admissions) when you visit. He'll be able to advise you better on the admissions process than we will.

Edited August 8, 2014 by theophany