Applying to Ph.D. programs as a Ph.D. Student?

[silvercat]

I have a quandary. I was hoping some of you may have also been in my situation at one time and may know from experience what to do. I am going on my fourth year in the History department at Notre Dame. I passed my qualifying exams and have now begun to write my dissertation.

 

However, there are two enormous mental blocks which have been standing in my way from the beginning and which keep me from making progress on my dissertation. First, I have never felt as though history is the profession best suited to my interests and talents. It is not something I am intrinsically interested in. Second, I have a very poor relationship with my advisor. It is so bad that I cannot rely on her to follow through with a recommendation when I need one to apply for grants and fellowships. I could continue in the program, complete my dissertation and submit it for defense. But at this point I don't know if she'll even pass me, and if she does, I believe that my eligibility on the job market will suffer as a result of my relationship with her.

 

So, I am considering to apply to other programs this coming fall semester (either to literature or classics departments). But I don't know what admissions committees will think of an application from a student who is leaving one Ph.D. program to start another and, further, without a recommendation from his advisor. Has anyone ever done this or heard of someone doing this? Is it completely unheard of? Must I explain the irregularity of my situation in my personal statement? 

[GeoDUDE!]

I doubt you will get into any new program for a few reasons:

 

1) your advisor's recommendation is key. If you can't get a recommendation from your advisor, and are going behind your advisors back so to speak, thats bad form 

 

2) A PhD in history, in my opinion, should be enough to start a career in another subject  like classics or literature. Maybe they are totally different, but most of what a PhD is learning how to research. Researching across the humanities cant be all that different; It would be like me going for my PhD in mathematics after my PhD in Geophysics. 

 

3) If you are worried about your Dissertation work now, then what makes them think that you can do better in another program? 

 

 

So after those addressed, I will offer what I think is the best way to do things: Talk to your advisor about your problems. Perhaps your relationship with your advisor really isn't that bad! My advisor (masters) and I had a good relationship, but we only talked about once every few weeks until it came time to defend my thesis, then there were more meetings. Perhaps this is normal. Does your advisor have a better relationship with other students?

 

If your advisor is really that bad, then its really good that you passed qualifiers. But switching programs is a lot of trouble. I think the first step is trying to repair your relationship with your advisor, and if that can't happen, ask your advisor to write you a strong recommendation to another program. 

 

PS, the name of  the degree doesnt matter, its what you did your dissertation on. My research could be done in any number of departments from Earth Science, to Physics, to Applied math, to even computer science or Engineering. Its all where the faculty fall!

[bsharpe269]

I agree with geodude that you would be better off switching advisors. Maybe find a history topic that overlaps better with your interests and get a new advisor that fits with that project better?

[silvercat]

Thank you, GeoDude and bSharpe, for your responses. I appreciate it. You are right: there are a lot of options, and sticking it out is probably the most prudent one. And the good thing is that I love my dissertation topic, because it isn't history! The relationship I have with my advisor isn't damned, but she is just a bit flaky and doesn't respond to emails for months (sometimes never at all) -- both mine and her other students'. She has had difficulties with all her advisees. I just sent her an email notifying her a month in advance that I will be applying to a Fulbright and I asked if she might write on my behalf...no response. I missed out on a travel grant in the past because she didn't reply soon enough. I just can't imagine how reliable she'll be when I'm on the job market and I need her to recommend me and introduce me to people. Last semester I scheduled a meeting with the Director of Graduate Studies and addressed these issues in a very professional way, and he said that it would basically be impossible for me to switch advisors at this point. (Yet, I have a very good friend for whom the same DGS made it very easy to switch advisors...).

 

On the other hand, I don't know how accurate it would be to describe a professional career change as "going behind" my advisor's "back." I applied elsewhere two years ago. It was an honest decision I arrived at from a sincere conviction that I was in the wrong field. I was not happy with what I was doing and could not see myself being happy as a professor of history. I informed her of my vocational difficulties in a very professional way. I let her know I was applying elsewhere, and she kindly "forgot" to write me a recommendation and then asked to forgive her for being "another flaky professor." If anything, I was the one who was honest and straightforward, and she was the one who was not. If I apply elsewhere, I will not inform her, nor would it be prudent of me to ask her for a recommendation. I don't think I would characterize this as dishonest, nor is it that unheard of. I believe many students follow through on a decision like this (though, of course, it is less frequent than not).

[GeoDUDE!]

Thank you, GeoDude and bSharpe, for your responses. I appreciate it. You are right: there are a lot of options, and sticking it out is probably the most prudent one. And the good thing is that I love my dissertation topic, because it isn't history! The relationship I have with my advisor isn't damned, but she is just a bit flaky and doesn't respond to emails for months (sometimes never at all) -- both mine and her other students'. She has had difficulties with all her advisees. I just sent her an email notifying her a month in advance that I will be applying to a Fulbright and I asked if she might write on my behalf...no response. I missed out on a travel grant in the past because she didn't reply soon enough. I just can't imagine how reliable she'll be when I'm on the job market and I need her to recommend me and introduce me to people. Last semester I scheduled a meeting with the Director of Graduate Studies and addressed these issues in a very professional way, and he said that it would basically be impossible for me to switch advisors at this point. (Yet, I have a very good friend for whom the same DGS made it very easy to switch advisors...).

 

On the other hand, I don't know how accurate it would be to describe a professional career change as "going behind" my advisor's "back." I applied elsewhere two years ago. It was an honest decision I arrived at from a sincere conviction that I was in the wrong field. I was not happy with what I was doing and could not see myself being happy as a professor of history. I informed her of my vocational difficulties in a very professional way. I let her know I was applying elsewhere, and she kindly "forgot" to write me a recommendation and then asked to forgive her for being "another flaky professor." If anything, I was the one who was honest and straightforward, and she was the one who was not. If I apply elsewhere, I will not inform her, nor would it be prudent of me to ask her for a recommendation. I don't think I would characterize this as dishonest, nor is it that unheard of. I believe many students follow through on a decision like this (though, of course, it is less frequent than not).

 

 

You most certainly should let her know if you do apply elsewhere. Not letting her know, even if you don't ask for her recommendation, isn't polite  at least. You cannot think of academia that same way as professional job; its very small and one person who has sour grapes can hurt you a great deal. The best thing to do is cover as many bases as possible. People may call your advisor to ask about you, even if you don't get an official recommendation! For example, I had a flaky internship advisor, and while I listed the internship on my resume they still called him despite not being one my 3 LOR! Anything you list on your CV is fair game and the absolute worst thing you can do is lie on your applications (I know you weren't going to, but its an important enough point to say it anyway). 

 

That being said, your advisor sounds like a dipshit. I hope that language doesn't get me a warning, because the word I would have probably used in real life starts with a c and no one likes. 

[bsharpe269]

If I were in your situation, I think that this is what I would do:

 

1) Would it be worth it to go to the director again and make it clear that this is bothering you enough that you will apply elsewhere if you can't switch advisors? Maybe if you are that straightforward then he will work with you.

 

2) I agree with geodude that you need to tell your advisor that you are applying and I would even ask for a LOR if I were you BUT I would ask for them from 3 other people too. Many schools require 3 letters but let you select letters from up to 5 people. If you dont ask your advisor then she might be insulted and give you a bad recommendation if they call. If you ask her and she just doesnt follow through then she cant be insulted and you can just say that there were 4 professors who you wanted letters from. This would also show prospective schools that are willing to have them speak with your current advisor and then when you are asked about this at interviews, you can just be honest and say that she doesnt follow through so you asked for hers in addition to 3 others.

[TakeruK]

I agree with what the others have said here about switching advisors rather than programs!

 

Alternatively, consider finding a co-advisor that can be a better advisor for you. Find another professor loosely connected to your work (doesn't have to be in history even) and get them to advise you too. Add them to your thesis committee if possible. In my field, I would say get them to be coauthors on your work but I know some humanities/social sciences have single author works only. I think this would create a legitimate enough relationship so that any jobs you apply to would view a letter from this person as a letter of recommendation from your advisor. In my field, co-advisors are very common so I would always list both names as advisors in application forms and CVs if this were the case. Obviously, pick this new advisor carefully to match your style!

 

If you can't make it as official as above, you can at least seek out another mentor in your school that can help you in the job market etc.

 

Finally, I just want to note that many schools do not admit current PhDs into new PhD programs, even if they are in completely different fields. So, I would not plan on getting a History PhD and then starting a new PhD program unless I had checked with all potential future PhD programs to make sure it's okay. However, getting a History PhD and then doing work in another related field is usually very possible! In my field, there are many multidisciplinary postdoc positions that are open to a wide range of PhD "majors".

[juilletmercredi]

I personally am not in the humanities so I am answering from a similar perspective as the science PhDs above, but with my admittedly limited experience I do not think it is as easy to switch between humanities fields as it is to do so between science fields.  Number one, I think it's harder to do interdisciplinary work because many humanities papers/monographs are single-author, so it's not like you commonly collaborate with other people who can teach you the ropes.

 

Number two, though, is that those fields are so glutted that you'd be competing with people who are much better prepared than you.  With fewer than 1 in 5 English lit PhDs getting jobs in the field, I can't see an English literature department very seriously considering a candidate with a PhD in history.  Even if that person had done like extensive scholarship on the history of literature or something, historiography is different from literary criticism - and the person in question wouldn't be able to teach even the basic survey classes in literature (like composition or British literature or whatnot).  Some universities require a certain amount of graduate credits in a specific field before you can teach in that field, usually 18.

 

I'd ask about this on the CHE fora and see what they say, but I think that you're correct in concluding that if you wanted to teach literature in an English department you would need a PhD in a literature field (English literature, or perhaps comparative literature or rhetoric & composition).  I think classics might be a little different since that field is interdisciplinary.  My point is, personally I think you are right in that if you don't want to teach college-level history and you know for sure that you want to be in a literature department, you should probably try to transfer - or at the very least see if you can find anyone in an English department at the kind of school at which you;d like to be that has a history PhD.

 

I do agree with the advice to speak frankly with your advisor.  Did she actually forget to write you a recommendation to a different program, or is she trying to sabotage you?  Of course, you can't ask her that directly, but you can ask how she feels about your work and whether she thinks you are ready to embark upon a dissertation.  Through her answers, you can sort of divine how she feels about you moving on and whether she's deliberately trying to keep you from going somewhere else.  I would also have a serious talk with her about whether she's prepared to write you recommendations for the job market, and perhaps even ask her to complete them ahead of time and file them with Interfolio or university career services, since she has a habit of forgetting things.

 

I agree also that it will be very difficult to transfer if you don't have your advisor's blessing and recommendation.  Your new department will wonder the worst - did you have a blow-out with your advisor?  Are you awful and lazy?  You can remedy that by getting strong recommendations from other professors in your department, preferably at least one who can delicately explain why you can't get one from your advisor but assure the new department that you are bright and motivated and will be an amazing doctoral student.

 

The other thing - are you mentally prepared to start over at a new university?  Four years of a PhD in history won't mean anything to a literature department, and will mean very little to a classics department. You'll likely have to begin from square 1.

[Sigaba]

.Second, I have a very poor relationship with my advisor. It is so bad that I cannot rely on her to follow through with a recommendation when I need one to apply for grants and fellowships. I could continue in the program, complete my dissertation and submit it for defense. But at this point I don't know if she'll even pass me, and if she does, I believe that my eligibility on the job market will suffer as a result of my relationship with her.

 

 

Is there a "go to" professor in your department that has a well-deserved reputation for being the department's rock to whom you can speak about this issue? If so, please talk to this person first. She or he may offer insights and suggestions that may ease your burden.

 

Also, please consider the possibility of scrambling your committee--ask someone who is already on it to become your advisor or develop an understanding that this person will use her/his "good offices" to deal with the professor who is problematic.

 

If such a scramble is not possible, you might consider just out right firing her. If you take this course of action, you need to have a replacement in mind, and that professor has to be ready to sign off on the paper work and you need to take care of the transition in a way that your department will see as professional.