Any other wildlife bio students out there? Need advice

[wildlifer]

Hi there.

 

New to the forum, so bare with me while I explain my situation.

 

I have a bit of an unique college background. Fresh out of high school I majored in Animal Science with a concentration in pre vet, determined that vet school was my ultimate path. Well, needless to say, I think I was in over my head a bit. I dropped the concentration my junior year when I came to the realization that vet school was not in my cards and that I should look into other options. So I remained as an ASCI, but finished my college career just under the general concentration. This allowed more flexibility and so I enrolled in a handful of wildlife biology courses. I was in love. I felt so at home with these courses, but, I was already graduating and wanted to be done with school for a while. 

 

After I graduated, I spent 3 years working a variety of jobs. From avian field technicians, to animal care assistants in a medical facility to even a lift operator at a ski resort in Colorado (this obviously was just for fun). However, I found myself always linking back to the field tech jobs. I really enjoyed them and wanted to become more skilled in that area. So I knew I needed more education, but I wasn't sure at first how I would go about it. I tried to get into a grad program first and was not successful. So, I then decided, maybe I should go back and get another degree in the wildlife field, since that is where my strongest interests reside. And that is exactly what I did!

 

So now to the present. I just graduated in May with my second Bachelor's in Wildlife Biology. I spent my summer as a field loon biologist and absolutely LOVED it. However, only seasonal and the non profit I worked for does not have any fall/winter positions. I find myself wondering how long will I have to play this game of applying to jobs every 2-3 months because that is what is around for people who only have an undergraduate degree (even though I have 2) in this field. I love the work, I am just ready to have a little bit more stability with the work beyond just these seasonal positions. 

 

This is where the forum will hopefully come in handy. Is there anyone currently in a wildlife type graduate program? If so, what is your program like? Do you think it is worth while? Do you think it would be worth while for someone like me to attend graduate school? The earliest would be fall of 2015, if I start prepping and studying for the GRE now. 

 

Also, is there anyone who has recently finished their program. If so, how soon after did you find employment beyond seasonal work? 

 

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this and respond, I really appreciate it! 

[Crucial BBQ]

Hi there.

 

New to the forum, so bare with me while I explain my situation.

 

I have a bit of an unique college background. Fresh out of high school I majored in Animal Science with a concentration in pre vet, determined that vet school was my ultimate path. Well, needless to say, I think I was in over my head a bit. I dropped the concentration my junior year when I came to the realization that vet school was not in my cards and that I should look into other options. So I remained as an ASCI, but finished my college career just under the general concentration. This allowed more flexibility and so I enrolled in a handful of wildlife biology courses. I was in love. I felt so at home with these courses, but, I was already graduating and wanted to be done with school for a while. 

 

After I graduated, I spent 3 years working a variety of jobs. From avian field technicians, to animal care assistants in a medical facility to even a lift operator at a ski resort in Colorado (this obviously was just for fun). However, I found myself always linking back to the field tech jobs. I really enjoyed them and wanted to become more skilled in that area. So I knew I needed more education, but I wasn't sure at first how I would go about it. I tried to get into a grad program first and was not successful. So, I then decided, maybe I should go back and get another degree in the wildlife field, since that is where my strongest interests reside. And that is exactly what I did!

 

So now to the present. I just graduated in May with my second Bachelor's in Wildlife Biology. I spent my summer as a field loon biologist and absolutely LOVED it. However, only seasonal and the non profit I worked for does not have any fall/winter positions. I find myself wondering how long will I have to play this game of applying to jobs every 2-3 months because that is what is around for people who only have an undergraduate degree (even though I have 2) in this field. I love the work, I am just ready to have a little bit more stability with the work beyond just these seasonal positions. 

 

This is where the forum will hopefully come in handy. Is there anyone currently in a wildlife type graduate program? If so, what is your program like? Do you think it is worth while? Do you think it would be worth while for someone like me to attend graduate school? The earliest would be fall of 2015, if I start prepping and studying for the GRE now. 

 

Also, is there anyone who has recently finished their program. If so, how soon after did you find employment beyond seasonal work? 

 

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this and respond, I really appreciate it! 

Not much help, but a family friend earned a Ph.D. in wildlife biology and is currently studying birds in Alaska.  She seems to really like what she does.

[shadowclaw]

Hi there! I think I might be able to offer some words of wisdom to you. I'm not technically speaking in a wildlife bio program nor do I have any degrees in wildlife bio. My undergrad degree was in Environmental Biology, but my curriculum was pretty much identical to the school's Wildlife Biology major because several of the major electives I chose happened to be requirements for the wildlife program. So I have a background in wildlife bio, and my masters thesis is focused on wildlife (birds).

 

Since I'm not actually in a wildlife bio program (I'm in a general biology masters program), my courses aren't all focused on wildlife. However, there are many wildlife and ecosystem-oriented courses offered that would be found in a wildlife bio program. For example, recent course offerings including Population Biology, Conservation Biology, and Ecosystem Management. Since I'm interested in ecology and wildlife biology, I've been taking all of those kinds of courses and I really enjoyed all of them. Outside of coursework, there have been ample opportunities to work in the field with different people. In my own lab, I'm the only grad student and I've been working entirely independently on my thesis. The undergrads have also been working pretty independently on their own projects, and we rarely do anything collaboratively. In contrast, one of my committee members has a much different lab (which I am unofficially a member of) and her grad and undergrad students do a lot of research working together (although her grad student is new, and will probably get more independent once her thesis is underway). I enjoy working with her lab, although sometimes I feel guilty about not spending as much time interacting with my own advisor!

 

So I think you will find that if you pursue graduate studies, you will learn some useful information and techniques, as well as develop skills in public speaking, writing, and leadership, and generally get better at communicating scientifically. Personally, I think a graduate education is invaluable, even if you have lots of field experience. Field work is great, but I like seeing the fruits of my labor: analyzing my dataset, putting it into context, and sharing it with the world! Plus, having the education will allow you to gain a more permanent position. The people with permanent positions are usually the people that are going to be working with the data or are designing the project. To do that, you need to have more than field experience.

 

Now moving on to a short story, one of the members of my graduate committee sort of did what you did. After graduating with her B.S., she took any seasonal job that provided her with lodging and enough money to live and traveled the country for a few years. When she finally decided that she wanted to pursue graduate school, she had a mixed experience applying. Some people thought it was great that she had such a diverse range of research experiences and saw it as a great strength to her application. Others thought she just had a problem keeping a job, and even when she explained that her goal was to see new places and gain a diverse array of experience, some people just couldn't understand it and didn't want to work with her. So keep in mind that having a lot of seasonal jobs could either help or hinder your future applications. Everything worked out great for her... she got her masters and PhD, and now she has a teaching position and grant money for projects that she's passionate about.

[wildlifer]

Thank you both for responding! I have spent some time reading through these forums and I was afraid there was not many people focusing in this type of area!

 

shadowclaw, your last paragraph is definitely something I am concerned with. I have several seasons of avian field work under my belt that I would not trade for anything. However, I know sometimes when people view my resume they may wonder why I have bounced around so much. It is not so much the issue of keeping the job, it is just that jobs I'm qualified for and am hired for, are short lived. While I have enjoyed traveling around and experiencing new areas, I feel I am ready to start thinking more in the long term. I am finding that unless you are lucky, the chances of landing a more stable, permanent job are slim without having a masters or PhD. 

 

My next concern is regarding how to design a thesis. I wouldn't even know where to begin regarding that. I have a lot of interests in this field, from breeding behavior, migration patterns, social systems,  etc. And after my work this summer with the loons, I could see myself potentially expanding on that project. When you applied to schools, did you already have a set project/thesis in mind? Or did you design it after you had been accepted and worked with your adviser? I have a preliminary list of schools that I will be focusing on and narrowing down once I start contacting professors. I also absolutely need to be fully funded with tuition waiver and an assistantship. Otherwise, I don't see myself being able to go. Anyway, thank you again. Much appreciated! 

[shadowclaw]

Hmmm, well, when I applied two years ago, my research interests were a bit different than they are now. I'm really interested in invasion ecology, and as an undergrad, I was more focused on invasive plants than animals. So I initially went looking for programs that had faculty interested in plant invasions. I did have some ideas for a thesis/dissertation, but I wouldn't say I had a definitive plan. As it happened, I didn't get into any of the programs that involved strictly plants, and they all happened to be PhD programs. So then I decided to go shopping for a masters program. At the time, birds were more of a hobby than a serious research interest, but I did have an idea for doing some work investigating the impacts of invasive plants on birds. One of my local universities had an ornithologist who had the same project in mind, so he agreed to be my advisor and off I went. The only problem there was that the department had very limited funding, and I didn't get a grad assistantship my first year. Since it's a state university, tuition was cheap, and I just used a federal student loan to pay for it and I worked part-time as a waitress. This year I have an assistantship, so my tuition is paid for and I have a very modest stipend to live off of.

 

So I guess to actually answer your question, yes, I had a project in mind, but it wasn't set in stone. As I've been looking at potential PhD programs this application season, I've found that I need to be very flexible in my research interests if I want to be able to go anywhere. The majority of ecology and wildlife bio programs I've been looking at require me to either get my funding though an advisor or external source or have a faculty member commit to advise me as a condition for admission. This has resulted in many people with the perfect research interests telling me that while they can advise me, they have no funding, or that their lab is full. So unless you can get an external grant to fund you (like the NSF GRFP or EPA STAR), you may have to work on a project that isn't exactly what you want, since you will need an advisor to commit to you, either for their funding or because that's how the program works. Personally, since I am running into this issue, I am applying for the NSF fellowship, and one of my POIs is nominating me for a fellowship from the grad school. I really, really, really want to go to Oregon State to work on riparian bird communities, but the only way I'm going to get there is if I get the fellowship, my POI secures funding for the project between now and next fall, or I get one of the few TA positions available.

 

If you're looking at masters programs, there are actually several interesting positions advertised on the Texas A&M wildlife job board. I suggest you take a look. Funded PhD positions in ornithology seem to be few and far between this year, but there are some out there. A few MS positions that I know of offhand: Utah State is looking for someone to work on goose migration in Alaska and Texas Tech is looking for someone to work on Sandhill Cranes. I think the stipends for both were around $15,000 a year. They are both on the job board.

[wildlifer]

 As of right now, if I go, it will just be for a masters. I think if I were to continue on, that decision would be made once I was in a program. I use Texas A&M all the time for jobs, but haven't focused too much on the assistantships posted. I'll be sure to take a look though. Thanks again, really appreciate the input! 

[Pitangus]

I started my Zoology/EEB Ph.D. program after a year of seasonal field assistant jobs. I already knew that I wanted to go to grad school, so I worked for the experience rather than as a longterm career move. I have been happy with my grad school experience so far: I like that I am being paid to further my education, expand my skill set, and conduct research that is interesting to me.

So far I've experienced several benefits of being a Ph.D. student compared to being a seasonal field assistant: there is of course more continuity in the work I do, I get to develop my own protocols etc., and the pay is better (though I should note that I have received fellowships that pay more than the typical Teaching Assistant stipend for my program).

 

I've worked with several people who had worked seasonal jobs for years and were currently either soon starting or planning to pursue a graduate program, so I think it is a common path for field biologists. Of course, a graduate degree is not an immediate ticket to a permanent job; for example, I worked with one guy who had worked seasonal jobs for several years, decided to get a masters degree, and a year after graduating was doing seasonal jobs again (that was a couple years ago; not sure what he's up to now).

So I think it is important to be interested in pursuing the graduate degree itself and conducting graduate research, rather than just viewing the degree as a means to an end.

 

I think your experience would be an asset; professors in ecology/wildlife biology understand the nature of seasonal field jobs and will not find it strange that you've moved around.

As for thesis ideas: it's good to have areas of interest and to look for potential advisors that work in those areas. As shadowclaw mentioned, the specificity of what professors are looking for will sometimes depend on their funding situation: sometimes a professor will have a grant for a specific project and will want a graduate student to work on that project. In my case, I did not decide on a project until I started the program. I have an external fellowship, so my advisor has given me a lot of freedom in designing my thesis work.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Pitangus

[wildlifer]

Thanks for the response Pitangus, appreciate the feedback! I definitely don't think a graduate degree will be an immediate ticket. I just want to be qualified for a more variety of jobs than I am now and would hope that after going to at least the masters level, I wouldn't struggle as much as I am currently with obtaining a position. I know there's a chance that if I go to grad school and come out I may still be in seasonal jobs for a while, but at least in some cases the extra degree will automatically mean greater pay (i.e. federal jobs with the GS scale). 

 

I am all for furthering educating myself. I am just having some concerns regarding the process and getting accepted with funding, which is an absolute must for me. If I can't be fully funded, I financially can't attend graduate school and that in itself makes this process feel daunting at the moment. It's not that I don't have the interest, it's worrying about whether I can make it work. 

[Pitangus]

I personally don't have experience with applying at the masters level, but I have a friend who just finished a funded M.S. in Fisheries & Wildlife, and I know my department doesn't accept graduate students (M.S. or Ph.D.) without offering funding (stipend + tuition wavier). If funding is the big concern holding you back then I think you should go ahead and research individual programs and professors to find programs that suit your interests and have guaranteed full funding or professors offering Research Assistantships. I think many, if not most, programs in ecology-type fields offer funding packages, but of course that is just my impression from when I was applying.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Pitangus

[mayanway]

I'm not currently in a wildlife graduate program (I'm a vet who is applying to go back for a PhD to do wildlife work), but I can chip in based on my past experience.  I wouldn't be too concerned about how multiple seasonal jobs look on your resume - it's very, very typical for people working in the wildlife field with just a bachelor's, particularly when they're recently out of school.  Presumably the people who review applications will know this.  Generally, getting the master's would be a positive for your career.  I know people who got permanent positions without going to grad school, but most worked multiple years as seasonal employees first, had exceptional experience coming out of school, and/or had federal preference from military service or peace corps.  I know a lot more who left the field after a few years or are still doing the same seasonal work but are quite disenchanted with their prospects and are looking to either go to grad school or get out.  At least one of the state wildlife agencies (ID) considers a master's to be the entry level degree for wildlife biologists.  You might look into some of the programs that have cooperative agreements with their state wildlife agencies, as this could be a good networking opportunity for post-grad school jobs. 

[wildlifer]

I'm not currently in a wildlife graduate program (I'm a vet who is applying to go back for a PhD to do wildlife work), but I can chip in based on my past experience.  I wouldn't be too concerned about how multiple seasonal jobs look on your resume - it's very, very typical for people working in the wildlife field with just a bachelor's, particularly when they're recently out of school.  Presumably the people who review applications will know this.  Generally, getting the master's would be a positive for your career.  I know people who got permanent positions without going to grad school, but most worked multiple years as seasonal employees first, had exceptional experience coming out of school, and/or had federal preference from military service or peace corps.  I know a lot more who left the field after a few years or are still doing the same seasonal work but are quite disenchanted with their prospects and are looking to either go to grad school or get out.  At least one of the state wildlife agencies (ID) considers a master's to be the entry level degree for wildlife biologists.  You might look into some of the programs that have cooperative agreements with their state wildlife agencies, as this could be a good networking opportunity for post-grad school jobs. 

 

Thanks for your input. From everyone I have spoken with-former coworkers, professors, etc. all have more or less been very encouraging and saying this is common route for people in this field. I've committed myself to the idea now. I've been contacting schools and am currently studying when I can for the GRE. Just a matter of figuring out which school will be taking students and applying once the GREs are taken. Thanks for the tip on the cooperative units, almost every school I have interest in has those!