Do Departments Ever Support a Student in a Ph.D Program Who Decide to Apply to Another School based on fit?

[ashley4111]

Hello, I am currently enrolled in a 4 year Ph.D program that has experienced some hard times in the past. I am straight out of undergrad, so I am earning my masters in Spring 2016/Ph.D Spring 2018. When I committed to this program, I committed based on a old version of their course catalog (most recent that they had at the time), that had classes listed that are no longer offered. As it stands now there are 0 courses offered in my specialization area (I have been taking general core course) and I don't have a great fit with my advisor.

 

I voiced my concern to the department, they said they will be trying to bring someone on, but they tried all of last year as well. If this does not come to fruition by next fall, I would like to apply to some other schools and see how things go with the process. However, I would be applying during fall 2015 for enrollment in fall 2016. I will not be done with my M.A. until Spring 2016, so if this happens I would have overlap.

 

My question is, what is the norm here? If they are unable to bring someone on and I approach my advisor fall 2015 and state my reasoning do you think the department as a whole will give me their blessing to apply to other programs and look for a better research/specialization fit without dropping out of my current program? I am afraid they would view it as me trying having my cake and eating it too. However, I believe I could make a compelling case and regardless, they have a whole year to try and bring someone on.

 

What are your thoughts, have you ever had to handle a similar situation? How was it handled?

Edited September 16, 2014 by ashley4111

[TakeruK]

I was in a similar situation, however, in Canada, it's completely normal for students to apply to a different school for their PhD after finishing their Masters. In fact, you have to reapply to the same school even if you want to stay in the same place for a PhD because the Masters and PhD programs are two different programs (you count as a "new student" again and you almost always must have a Masters before applying to a PhD).

 

So I started my Masters in 2010, applied for PhD programs in Fall 2011, defended and graduated with a MSc in August 2012 and then started my PhD program September 2012. One of the reasons I wanted to go somewhere else was a very similar reason to yours--there weren't any courses or training in my specialization; but my advisor and I got along great. After a year there, I talked to the professors about this and they were honest with me that they don't really have any plans to change things and encouraged me to apply elsewhere for my PhD because they knew they would not be changing their program any time soon. All of the professors, especially my advisor, were very helpful in preparing me for PhD applications and did everything they could to make sure I could succeed.

 

During the PhD application process, I met a lot of other students (in Canada and the US) who were in somewhat similar situations--that is, applying to PhD programs while currently in a Masters program. The majority were still applying from undergrad, but it wasn't as big of a majority as I thought it would be. Even though the US system is direct to PhD from undergrad, at every school I visited, I found plenty of people entering with Masters. That is, while it's not the most common path, it is definitely not totally abnormal for students to apply for graduate programs while enrolled in another graduate program.

 

For your situation, it's not exactly the same because you are in a PhD program and they are expecting you to stay for 4 years. Here is what I think about the various complications:

 

Don't expect anything in terms of the department bringing on people in your specialization. There are just way too many factors here, e.g. does the department even have a professorship open, will they want to fill it with your specialization (i.e. gain breadth) or continue to hone their expertise with more people in their current areas of depth. As a single graduate student, we have pretty  much no sway in the department decisions. Also, the timeline for hiring a new person can take several years! Many times, a department is perfectly willing to wait 1-2 years for a new hire to finish up their current postdoc or something. In my experience with my department hiring people, the whole process takes on average, ~2 years, from the announcement of the job posting to the person actually arriving and starting work. If there's not even a job posting, I wouldn't hold my breath and the "possibility" of hiring someone is meaningless.

 

Thus, you should make your decision whether to stay or go based on the current structure of the program/department. I would not expect there to be enough changes between now and 2018 for it to make a significant difference in your PhD. However, since you might have only recently started, I would also say you should give it some time to see what the department is like. I'm assuming that you are fully funded since it's a PhD program, so you are not going into debt for a program that might be not great for you? If so, then I'd say to just go with the flow for this first year and see where it leads you. Perhaps you will find yourself interested in a new specialization that this program is great for. 

 

If in Fall 2015, you still feel like the program is a bad fit, then it might be a good time to think about whether you want to continue or not. You really do need support from your current program for a new graduate program to feel comfortable taking you on so it might be a good idea to be honest with your department in Fall 2015 if you want to leave. Do what's right and let them know that you would like to leave with a Masters and start a different PhD program in Fall 2016. This might have consequences like losing your funding / TAships etc but it would be professionally good for you since you can wrap up whatever project, hopefully not burn any bridges, and get strong LORs for your PhD applications. However, full honesty might not always be the most viable choice--you'll have to decide in a year or so!

[juilletmercredi]

Yeah, I agree in that I wouldn't take them trying to bring someone on in your area seriously.  Perhaps they are, but like TakeruK says, there's no guarantee that this new person will actually be there in time to give you any meaningful assistance.  Even if they do come, though, there's no guarantee that this person will work with you.  Maybe they come in with a grant that helps them protect themself from advising a doctoral student in their first year, or maybe they are technically in your area but actually pretty far afield from what you do, or maybe your personalities don't click.  There would still only be ONE person in your department, teaching maybe 1-2 classes in your specialty area per year.

 

No, you need to go somewhere your specialty/research area is supported.  I don't think there would be any overlap - if you apply for fall 2016 and finish in the spring, then you'd finish around May and start the new program in August or September.  That's pretty normal.

 

This is very normal.  You don't want to do a PhD where no one can support you, and frankly the program shouldn't want you to do a PhD in a department where no one shares your interests.  Will they "give your their blessing"?  You don't really need their blessing; they probably will, if they are sane, though.  If you explain to your advisor or the DGS if you don't have an advisor why you want to transfer and you make it all about research fit, there's really not a whole lot they can say.  You will need a letter of rec from at least one person in your program - to verify that you're not leaving because of professional issues (quality of work, failing classes, etc.)