Advice on deciding area of study for future PhD

[CosmicMarpeck]

Hi Friends,

 

I am halfway through an MTS and am starting to get some thoughts together on what my next step is. My BA is in Theology from a liberal arts University and my MTS is from a smaller (but well respected) seminary. My plan has always been to apply to theology/ethics type PhD programs and basically just see what happens. However, lately I have thought about applying to programs for a Religious Studies concentration. Outside of theology classes I have a lot of experience within the Old Testament, and am interested in doing things within the Abrahamic traditions. I like the idea of this freeing me up to not only teach Biblical Studies-type courses, but also maybe some classes more on the sociology side of things. Anyways, my questions are:

 

1.) Is greek/hebrew enough to get into a respected Religious Studies PhD program language-wise? Especially if I spend the rest of my time on my MTS gathering solid writing samples that would be applicable? 

 

2.) Will RS programs be open to someone with my type of background (I.E. all theology)

 

3.) Did anyone else here struggle to decide which specific discipline you fit into? How did you decide?

 

Or if anyone could just give me a sort of "blueprint" for a good RS application or tell me why Theology Vs. RS would be prefferred that would be awesome too.

 

 

Thanks for any help! 

[xypathos]

1) It depends on the school and what you want to study. At Vanderbilt there are PhD students in HB that their adviser has only required Hebrew b/c of their research focus. For others, they're having to study Ugarit, Akkadian, Aramaic, etc.

 

2) By RS programs, do you simply mean a university? If so, yes, but again it depends on what you want to study. Theology can lend itself to most fields, fortunately. So as long as you have the coursework in HB, LORs, language, etc you will probably be okay. Now, if you invested your interest in theology and then applied for PhDs in say South Asian Religions, that would be a different matter.

 

3) I still struggle with defining my discipline. I love the reading I've done on mental health and religion, so "practical theology" programs or something like Vanderbilt's RPC program would be a good fit for me. That said, I also love traditional theology and within that you still need to navigate an interest like systematic, historical, or philosophical. Fortunately there will generally be the option to declare a subfield/minor for your PhD and nothing is stopping you from developing competencies in other areas throughout your career.

 

From the advice given by others on this thread, it really comes down to what you want to study and who you want to teach it to. If your degree is from a seminary/DS you'll likely end up teaching in such an institution. If it's RS, you'll have a bit more latitude to move between the two. That said, if you want to do theology, there's more of those programs in seminaries/DS than in RS programs.

[theophany]

Hi Friends,

 

I am halfway through an MTS and am starting to get some thoughts together on what my next step is. My BA is in Theology from a liberal arts University and my MTS is from a smaller (but well respected) seminary. My plan has always been to apply to theology/ethics type PhD programs and basically just see what happens. However, lately I have thought about applying to programs for a Religious Studies concentration. Outside of theology classes I have a lot of experience within the Old Testament, and am interested in doing things within the Abrahamic traditions. I like the idea of this freeing me up to not only teach Biblical Studies-type courses, but also maybe some classes more on the sociology side of things. Anyways, my questions are:

 

1.) Is greek/hebrew enough to get into a respected Religious Studies PhD program language-wise? Especially if I spend the rest of my time on my MTS gathering solid writing samples that would be applicable? 

 

2.) Will RS programs be open to someone with my type of background (I.E. all theology)

 

3.) Did anyone else here struggle to decide which specific discipline you fit into? How did you decide?

 

Or if anyone could just give me a sort of "blueprint" for a good RS application or tell me why Theology Vs. RS would be prefferred that would be awesome too.

 

 

Thanks for any help! 

 

It seems to me that Bible is the hardest field to switch into of all. Everyone I know who has gotten into PhD programs in HB have had Hebrew, Ugaritic, Aramaic, etc. You'll be competing against people who have been preparing all of their undergrad and all of their M* (in some case, multiple M*) on acquiring languages. It's a...steep hill.

 

You won't be limited from talking about HB if you study theology/ethics (in fact, in my opinion, you should be talking about the Bible in theology/ethics), but so many of the "respected" PhD programs in HB are very textually-based and emphasize languages.

 

I think you should talk to one of your HB profs who knows your preparation better than any of us, and see what s/he says about this idea.

[CosmicMarpeck]

Ya, I wasn't planning on doing HB, I was wondering if Hebrew/Greek would be enough to get into a Religious Studies PhD....Or would I need Arabic, Ugaritic, Aramaic? 

[theophany]

Ya, I wasn't planning on doing HB, I was wondering if Hebrew/Greek would be enough to get into a Religious Studies PhD....Or would I need Arabic, Ugaritic, Aramaic? 

 

It depends on your field of study. Religious studies isn't a discipline, but more akin to an object study with a variety of different areas of the world, times, methods, and "religious traditions". So it's hard to generalize on what is needed for "religious studies" because that name is really deceptive. It's not really a thing exactly. The question is more about primary language of study—languages you need to read primary sources. So if, say, you were applying to theology programs: it would depend on if you're doing medieval (in which case you'd need Latin, but not so much French or German), or if you're doing contemporary (in which you'd need German absolutely, but not so much Latin or Greek).

[sacklunch]

Ya, I wasn't planning on doing HB, I was wondering if Hebrew/Greek would be enough to get into a Religious Studies PhD....Or would I need Arabic, Ugaritic, Aramaic? 

 

In short, you 'shouldn't' need the latter. Unless you are doing biblical studies proper there will be no expectation to have such languages, unless of course they are directly relevant to your proposed research. I've hardly met anyone outside of biblical studies or history of interpretation who had such training. Hell, there are plenty of people in ethics who have only Hebrew or Greek or neither. It really just depends on your subfield and the department. 

[marXian]

It depends on your field of study. Religious studies isn't a discipline, but more akin to an object study with a variety of different areas of the world, times, methods, and "religious traditions". So it's hard to generalize on what is needed for "religious studies" because that name is really deceptive. It's not really a thing exactly. The question is more about primary language of study—languages you need to read primary sources. So if, say, you were applying to theology programs: it would depend on if you're doing medieval (in which case you'd need Latin, but not so much French or German), or if you're doing contemporary (in which you'd need German absolutely, but not so much Latin or Greek).

 

Just to be clear: Religious Studies is absolutely a "thing," i.e. a discipline, unless you're Russell McCutcheon or Tomoko Masuzawa. There are RS departments, and like any other humanities/social science department, they all specialize in different things, but there still are conversations that circulate within departments regarding theory and method in religious studies (not to mention seminars that most 1st year PhD students have to take in T&M.) There's an entire history (histories, really) out there of theorizing "religion" itself and asking what it means to study religion in the academy. The vast majority of folks on this board are text scholars (or want to be text scholars), which is great, but it's not wholly representative of "religious studies" which is a different sort of environment in which to study religion than a seminary/div school. There's some overlap to be sure (especially between div schools and RS departments) but there are also important differences that sort of get washed away on this forum in particular--not a knock on anyone; it's just the nature of who posts here and the kinds of questions that are usually asked. 

 

That said, languages like those usually learned in seminary (Greek/Hebrew) are not required simply as a basic requirement for everyone applying to an RS program, but as others have said, are dependent upon what you're studying. There are people in my department who are not doing any language at all because they're Americanists and the The Graduate School has decided to do away with a blanket language requirement (which is becoming more and more typical now.) In my case, I did German and French because I study German theology/philosophy and because doing the classic modern research language combo is still valued somewhat in academic theology. As has been said, it really depends on what you want to study, but if you were to study, say, theology/phil. of religion in an RS department, Hebrew/Greek most likely wouldn't matter at all (assuming you weren't interested in studying ancient phil. of religion or modern Jewish phil./theology or something like that--and in the case of the latter you'd need modern Hebrew, not biblical.)

[Joseph45]

Religious Studies might be a thing (whether it's a thing that should be a thing or not), but that doesn't mean it makes sense to say that you're applying to a religious studies department instead of doing HB. It's one thing to talk about doing a PhD in philosophy of religion, or something like that, but no religious studies departments I know accept students simply as religious studies people--and, just as importantly, no jobs I know of are just hiring a "religious studies" person--they want Southeast Asian religions or Atlantic Africana religious traditions, New Testament, philosophy of religion, etc.

 

Only once you know what you're specialty will be can you answer what languages you will need.

 

All of which is to say, this is really confusing, and I don't know what you mean when you say that you want to apply to a RELS program and not Hebrew Bible. The two things aren't comparable.

[marXian]

Religious Studies might be a thing (whether it's a thing that should be a thing or not), but that doesn't mean it makes sense to say that you're applying to a religious studies department instead of doing HB.

 

Unless of course one is talking about HB/OT in a seminary context versus an RS department... I think there's a difference, especially in considering what sorts of job prospects one will have coming out. I'm assuming that's what the OP means by "Theology v. RS"

 

Yes, RS does admit students and hire people who specialize in particular subfields--but are you saying that's different than, say, an English lit or comp lit department hiring people who specialize in their subfields? English departments contain people who work on Chaucer as well as those who work on Melville--two completely different skill sets and areas of expertise. Does that mean literature is not a "thing" even if the boundaries of that thing, it's definition, whether or not it should exist as a category, etc. are constantly contested? Even your example of philosophy of religion doesn't quite work as a counter example because phil. of religion is a subfield of some philosophy departments, where one would earn a PhD in philosophy. I guess I don't understand your point. I was responding to theophany's statement "Religious studies isn't a discipline," which to me is a bit misleading.

[Joseph45]

CosmicMarpeck says: "I am halfway through an MTS and am starting to get some thoughts together on what my next step is. My BA is in Theology from a liberal arts University and my MTS is from a smaller (but well respected) seminary. My plan has always been to apply to theology/ethics type PhD programs and basically just see what happens. However, lately I have thought about applying to programs for a Religious Studies concentration. Outside of theology classes I have a lot of experience within the Old Testament, and am interested in doing things within the Abrahamic traditions. I like the idea of this freeing me up to not only teach Biblical Studies-type courses, but also maybe some classes more on the sociology side of things."

 

and: "Ya, I wasn't planning on doing HB, I was wondering if Hebrew/Greek would be enough to get into a Religious Studies PhD....Or would I need Arabic, Ugaritic, Aramaic?"

 

All of which is another way of saying "I don't understand the discipline at all." Whatever angst you have in regards to  McCutcheon or  Masuzawa doesn't really matter.

[marXian]

CosmicMarpeck says: "I am halfway through an MTS and am starting to get some thoughts together on what my next step is. My BA is in Theology from a liberal arts University and my MTS is from a smaller (but well respected) seminary. My plan has always been to apply to theology/ethics type PhD programs and basically just see what happens. However, lately I have thought about applying to programs for a Religious Studies concentration. Outside of theology classes I have a lot of experience within the Old Testament, and am interested in doing things within the Abrahamic traditions. I like the idea of this freeing me up to not only teach Biblical Studies-type courses, but also maybe some classes more on the sociology side of things."

 

and: "Ya, I wasn't planning on doing HB, I was wondering if Hebrew/Greek would be enough to get into a Religious Studies PhD....Or would I need Arabic, Ugaritic, Aramaic?"

 

All of which is another way of saying "I don't understand the discipline at all." Whatever angst you have in regards to  McCutcheon or  Masuzawa doesn't really matter.

 

Again, regarding the discipline thing, I was responding to theophany, not the OP. You seem to be a huge fan of people who think RS shouldn't be a "discipline," so maybe we should just table that little disagreement. The condescension isn't necessary. 

 

To the OP, there is no such thing as a "religious studies concentration." That's like saying someone has a PhD with a "philosophy concentration" in philosophy. You get a PhD in religious studies with a concentration in X. E.g. people study HB/OT in religious studies departments, others study American religious history, others study religion in southeast Asia, but unless you're studying HB/OT or other ancient texts and/or their reception, you're not going to need the languages you listed to gain admittance into an RS program.

 

Is that what you're trying to get across, Joseph45? I get that the OP is a little confused about the differences between RS and doing a PhD at a seminary, and doesn't really understand what religious studies is, but the point of the forum is to help people figure that out, not to say "You don't know anything about the discipline at all."

[theophany]

Again, regarding the discipline thing, I was responding to theophany, not the OP. You seem to be a huge fan of people who think RS shouldn't be a "discipline," so maybe we should just table that little disagreement. The condescension isn't necessary. 

 

To the OP, there is no such thing as a "religious studies concentration." That's like saying someone has a PhD with a "philosophy concentration" in philosophy. You get a PhD in religious studies with a concentration in X. E.g. people study HB/OT in religious studies departments, others study American religious history, others study religion in southeast Asia, but unless you're studying HB/OT or other ancient texts and/or their reception, you're not going to need the languages you listed to gain admittance into an RS program.

 

Is that what you're trying to get across, Joseph45? I get that the OP is a little confused about the differences between RS and doing a PhD at a seminary, and doesn't really understand what religious studies is, but the point of the forum is to help people figure that out, not to say "You don't know anything about the discipline at all."

 

 

My "discipline" comment was made in the context of admissions requirements, and I did not mean for it to be extrapolated into this conversation about the category of "religion", which really bores me to be honest. All I meant by the discipline thing is that it's unhelpful to think about it as one when it comes to "what you need to get in," because the use of the general disciplinary/field term makes it seem like you could generalize across it what you'd need. Because of the nature of religious studies (as a hugely diverse conglomeration of objects of study as well as methodologies all around a central theme—whose specialists often virulently disagree over whether or not it is actually a thing) it's substantially harder to generalize than, say, a philosophy or math department. As I wrote, it's unhelpful to think about it that way when it was clearly getting in the way of the OP understanding what s/he needs for admissions—you wouldn't, for instance, need Arabic for admission for either HB or theology.

[marXian]

My "discipline" comment was made in the context of admissions requirements, and I did not mean for it to be extrapolated into this conversation about the category of "religion", which really bores me to be honest. All I meant by the discipline thing is that it's unhelpful to think about it as one when it comes to "what you need to get in," because the use of the general disciplinary/field term makes it seem like you could generalize across it what you'd need. Because of the nature of religious studies (as a hugely diverse conglomeration of objects of study as well as methodologies all around a central theme—whose specialists often virulently disagree over whether or not it is actually a thing) it's substantially harder to generalize than, say, a philosophy or math department. As I wrote, it's unhelpful to think about it that way when it was clearly getting in the way of the OP understanding what s/he needs for admissions—you wouldn't, for instance, need Arabic for admission for either HB or theology.

 

Thanks for the clarification, theophany. I understand what you and Joseph45 are trying to get across. I didn't read the OP's initial post in the same way, but I do see that he/she is confused about what religious studies is. I also agree that as humanities disciplines go, RS is perhaps more nebulous. So yes, for the application, it's perhaps unhelpful, especially given the confusion.

 

But the OP should understand that once in an RS dept., every dept. has it's own way of conceiving "religious studies" and/or "theory and method," and that will probably have an effect on his/her experience. Of course, it depends on the department as well as the field of study, but I haven't met any RS people who haven't at least had to take seminars and an exam that cover the "religious studies" aspect of their program.