The Future of Sociologists!

[That_One]

Hi all,

I just wanted to create a discussion about the current and future job market for PhD sociologists (inside and outside of academia). Should current Sociology PhD students feel optimistic about the future job market, or is it not looking good for us? What do you guys think?

~That_One

[Anonposter84]

i definitely wouldnt feel optimisitc at all about the job market. It wasnt great before the recession. now its horrible. and dont expect schools to restore tenure track gigs they've currently be filling with adjuncts once the economy is on the up. for a realistic sense, check out http://socrumormill2008.blogspot.com/

folks at top 5 departments with pubs in ASR/AJS didnt even get interviews at R1 schools...

everyones case is different to be sure...

[a piece of bread]

it is true that we have some reasons like the financial crisis to be pessimistic! but this is directly related to when you will obtain your degree. if you are just starting, no need to worry, keep your hope alive that everything is going to be ok.

otherwise, why don't you expand your list? have a look at international universities that teach in english. think the world as global

[Tritonetelephone]

it is true that we have some reasons like the financial crisis to be pessimistic! but this is directly related to when you will obtain your degree. if you are just starting, no need to worry, keep your hope alive that everything is going to be ok.

I was going to say something similar. We shouldn't be evaluating the job market by how it is in the moment (assuming we're all just entering or about to enter or thinking about maybe entering grad school). Our competition to get into grad school has been rough in the recession, but that just means a lot of people are going to grad school to keep or advance the jobs they already had. If they were admitted, they won't necessarily be competing against us for tenure-track positions, like so many of us fresh-out-of-college, new-grad-admits are interested in.

Plus, schools were poor this year and accepted less people across the board. Shrinks the competition even further among our cohorts.

Not to mention, there is a generational changeover underway for my subfield (sex/gender). A LOT of profs (presumably, who got involved in the field during the 70's feminism movement) will be retiring by the time we're looking for TT jobs. I don't know if this is true of other subfields - just what my prof said to explain that now is a great time to enter grad school for sex/gender.

[Anonposter84]

just to play devils advocate (or super debbie downer...)

Folks who struck out on the job market this year arent going away. Many will be spending the next years teaching, writing and publishing - and aggressively pursuing the jobs that previously would have gone to those freshly minted Phds. its unfortunately not quite as simple as saying this years grads got screwed but we'll be ok if the economy rebounds.

And we've been hearing the retirement promise for years. The recession has understandably led many tenured folks to reconsider their plans and most are extending the time they'll be spending in their cushy spots. And again, dont count on uni's replacing retiring profs 1:1 with TT slots.....

[slothy]

if you are just starting, no need to worry, keep your hope alive that everything is going to be ok.

otherwise, why don't you expand your list? have a look at international universities that teach in english. think the world as global

While I'd agree that worrying isn't necessary, it is smart to be planning for the realities of the academic job market down the road. At a minimum, I would say that it makes sense to keep a Plan B in mind at any stage in life. The comment about international universities is perceptive in the sense that geographic mobility is a necessity on the market, although it is unfortunate that maybe 10% of ABD's on the market really have worldwide availability (and it can be hard to come back stateside once one goes abroad for academic positions - kind of a "damaged goods" phenomenon.) The job rumors sites are a good source of information, although there's debate (which I've completely ignored) about how early one should start reading them.

[rising_star]

Not to mention, there is a generational changeover underway for my subfield (sex/gender). A LOT of profs (presumably, who got involved in the field during the 70's feminism movement) will be retiring by the time we're looking for TT jobs. I don't know if this is true of other subfields - just what my prof said to explain that now is a great time to enter grad school for sex/gender.

This is a myth that's been out there for over a decade. What we see instead is universities replacing TT jobs with adjunct jobs. I don't know about you but I want benefits in whatever job I get. Plus, as has already been said, it's not like all of the people that didn't get jobs this year will magically disappear. Sure, some of them will go with a Plan B and not pursue full-time work in the academy but others will keep doggedly pursuing that goal for the next several years. It's important to keep that in mind while you're in school.

[Tritonetelephone]

Screw you guys, I'm still optimistic. Not that it's not going to make me work my ass off any less while I'm in school, anyway.

[nyghtfalls]

sweet denial... this is precisely why I'm not buying into the academia cult... consider other fields of employment besides becoming a professor. it'll let you sleep better at night! ;-)

[misterpat]

This is a myth that's been out there for over a decade. What we see instead is universities replacing TT jobs with adjunct jobs. I don't know about you but I want benefits in whatever job I get. Plus, as has already been said, it's not like all of the people that didn't get jobs this year will magically disappear. Sure, some of them will go with a Plan B and not pursue full-time work in the academy but others will keep doggedly pursuing that goal for the next several years. It's important to keep that in mind while you're in school.

True with a capital T.

[Anonposter84]

being optimistic is fine. but its also important to be realistic.

its all about expectations: if you're hoping to get an academic gig anywhere and dont care about location, money or institution/department quality (in the traditional sense) then you have a much higher chance of being satisfied. The stronger your preferences, the more likely you're going to be unhappy.

Unless you've got a good plan B that you're happy with - it really does help one sleep at night!

[SocViv]

I'm certain the job market will be better when I graduate. The current political climate is very pro-government and pro-education. Sociologists will not only be needed to staff colleges and universities, but also to head up major research and policy oversight divisions of the to-be-created government institutions.

I'm not sure what this "Plan B" stuff is all about, but as far as I'm concerned, I am a researcher and there will be opportunities for me to conduct well-paid research when I finish my PhD.

[misterpat]

I'm certain the job market will be better when I graduate. The current political climate is very pro-government and pro-education. Sociologists will not only be needed to staff colleges and universities, but also to head up major research and policy oversight divisions of the to-be-created government institutions.

I'm not sure what this "Plan B" stuff is all about, but as far as I'm concerned, I am a researcher and there will be opportunities for me to conduct well-paid research when I finish my PhD.

I would think that only the creme de la creme of sociologists will be involved in policy oversight, and that it will be the Quantitative-inclined types who get published in ASR. Great for you, if you fall into that category. But econ and poli sci play a much larger role in policy debates, and I would guess that way more government jobs will go to PhDs from those disciplines.

I am too lazy to look anything up to verify my above statements, so I invite the optimists to gainsay anything.