Got a job offer at Silicon Valley, and I'm applying for PhD....

[RP15]

I'm stuck here and I have no clue what to take. 

 

The offer is from Intel Corporation.... 

 

Currently I'm applying to prestigious PhD programs, but I don't even know if I will be admitted. Despite allll of my research experience and high GPA, I anticipate a weak GRE score (I keep scoring poorly in practice exams)... This, I'm afraid, may likely cause the committee to toss my application

 

If I take the offer from Intel, is that aiming lower or higher relative to a PhD? I really enjoy what both academia and industry have to offer, to be quite honest.

 

Any insight would be nice

[TakeruK]

This is a tough dilemma (but not really a bad dilemma to have!). My advice is to think about what your long terms goals are and what you need to achieve them.

 

For example, my long term goal for pursuing a PhD is to get a job doing research that is relatively secure and pays decently. So, if someone were to offer me such a job right now, in the middle of my PhD, I would strongly consider taking the job and not finishing my PhD (since I would already achieve my goal without the PhD). Of course, it's not so simple, since there's a lot of other factors--e.g. will I eventually be replaced by someone with a PhD? what if I lose this job, would not having a PhD hurt me in finding a new job later on? would not having a PhD prevent me from being promoted/moving up as much as I would want to in the company? etc. etc. 

 

So, don't think of it in terms of aiming "higher/lower". Instead, consider what you need to achieve your long term career goals. If you are in a field that doesn't generally require a PhD and the concerns I just listed above are either resolved or not important enough to merit going to grad school, then take the job! If you know that taking the job will only be a good decision for a few years but then you'll be stuck without a PhD, then perhaps grad school is a better choice. 

[peachypie]

Can you accept the job and still go to PhD program in the fall?  No one says you HAVE to stay for over a year if you end up getting an opportunity to do something else unless you sign some kind of contract.  I'd be surprised if you were given a 1 year minimum contract considering it sounds like you are new to the field.  You can continue to apply to PhD programs and submit them and see what happens come this spring.  If you don't feel like doing it when the interviews come in then you can also decline that at that time.  It also will give you a chance to see what working in this place is like, if you like it enough to stay and realize you can make a good career with it.  If you decide it is not for you or now you know you want a higher degree you can follow through with that.  If you don't get into a program also, you still have a job and you are gaining experience.  I wouldn't limit yourself at this point, as long as there is nothing binding you for a certain time period than see what happens.  Relax and have fun, this is the time that you can make such big changes and risks in your career.  Don't limit yourself at this point.  Best of luck.

[RP15]

Well, the position begins in May 2015. In reality the job is a 9 month internship, which leads to a full time ("Internship-to-CG")

 

I would much rather not be employed for ~3 months and then quit, that will make me look terrible.

 

 

Not having a PhD will certainly not put me at a disadvantage in terms of finding a job within industry. When it comes to engineering, having a bachelor's with great experience (or even better with a Masters) is more than enough to secure your status as an employee.

 

Sooooooo now I'm stuck here. Maybe if I take the position and improve my GRE score next year, I'll apply to PhD programs once again? What do you all think of this route? 

 

Obviously it's up to me, but damn is this difficult. 

 

Also, what if I accept the position, and end up getting into, say, Stanford ? Is it understandable to rescind a job agreement for this? 

[lyonessrampant]

I would take the job and see how the applications pan out.  If you get into a school you love, you might be able to talk to your employers and work something out.  Or even if you did leave on bad terms, you're going to be doing the Ph.D. for 4-6 years and will be distant from any stain from leaving the Intel job early (assuming they don't send you on your way with well wishes if you get that dream admit).  If you get into a school you like but don't love and like the internship, you might ask for a deferral at that school and then apply again next year and see what happens.  At that point, you'll have been with Intel for more than a year so it won't look as bad to leave and you might get better offers because of the job experience.  Or you don't get in, have this job, and then either reapply or stay in this job if you're happier there.  No matter which way you go, if it were I, (I know that sounds pedantic . . . it is, but I'm an English Ph.D) I'd take the job.  Bird in the hand and all that.

[TakeruK]

I agree with the OP's reluctance to start a job in their field (a kind of job they want might after their PhD) and then just quit 3 months into it. Especially since this is a job that starts May 2015, i.e. after you already made a decision on grad school!!. 

 

With this new information, I think you should accept the job offer to start in May 2015 and apply to grad schools this fall. If you get into a program you like and you decide you want to go ahead with the PhD, you should let Intel know ASAP. You might know about grad schools as early as February and I think it is your responsibility to make a decision as soon as you have all the information (i.e. don't wait until April 15 deadline). You will probably be able to decide sometime in March 2015 and that would give Intel over a month's notice that you won't be starting in May 2015 after all. I think it is acceptable to change your mind on a job offer prior to the start of your job. After all, in the current job market, it's perfectly reasonable for a prospective employee to be applying to a lot of different jobs/opportunities and to change their mind if they get a better offer from somewhere else.

 

If you don't end up getting into grad programs this year, you can then start work at Intel and apply for Fall 2016 PhD programs. By Fall 2016, you would have been there for over a year, which is long enough that leaving for grad school won't be terrible if that is what you end up choosing.

 

So, I don't think you have to worry about conflict between starting the job and starting grad school -- you will be able to decide in early 2015 and give proper notice to Intel if necessary. The real question is whether you even want to go to grad school. It kind of sounds like you do and I think it would be a good idea for you to talk it out (i.e. consider pros/cons etc.) because I find that doing this usually helps me determine what I actually want. And you have a nice advantage of a very good/strong backup plan so that you don't really need to apply to safety schools. You should only apply to schools where you would give up the Intel job to attend!

[RP15]

I would take the job and see how the applications pan out.  If you get into a school you love, you might be able to talk to your employers and work something out.  Or even if you did leave on bad terms, you're going to be doing the Ph.D. for 4-6 years and will be distant from any stain from leaving the Intel job early (assuming they don't send you on your way with well wishes if you get that dream admit).  If you get into a school you like but don't love and like the internship, you might ask for a deferral at that school and then apply again next year and see what happens.  At that point, you'll have been with Intel for more than a year so it won't look as bad to leave and you might get better offers because of the job experience.  Or you don't get in, have this job, and then either reapply or stay in this job if you're happier there.  No matter which way you go, if it were I, (I know that sounds pedantic . . . it is, but I'm an English Ph.D) I'd take the job.  Bird in the hand and all that.

 

Ha! "If it were I" sounded so odd to me, I was about to correct you, and promptly refrained from doing so when I read "English Ph.D", not going to even compete with that.

Thank you for your input

 

 

 

I agree with the OP's reluctance to start a job in their field (a kind of job they want might after their PhD) and then just quit 3 months into it. Especially since this is a job that starts May 2015, i.e. after you already made a decision on grad school!!. 

 

With this new information, I think you should accept the job offer to start in May 2015 and apply to grad schools this fall. If you get into a program you like and you decide you want to go ahead with the PhD, you should let Intel know ASAP. You might know about grad schools as early as February and I think it is your responsibility to make a decision as soon as you have all the information (i.e. don't wait until April 15 deadline). You will probably be able to decide sometime in March 2015 and that would give Intel over a month's notice that you won't be starting in May 2015 after all. I think it is acceptable to change your mind on a job offer prior to the start of your job. After all, in the current job market, it's perfectly reasonable for a prospective employee to be applying to a lot of different jobs/opportunities and to change their mind if they get a better offer from somewhere else.

 

If you don't end up getting into grad programs this year, you can then start work at Intel and apply for Fall 2016 PhD programs. By Fall 2016, you would have been there for over a year, which is long enough that leaving for grad school won't be terrible if that is what you end up choosing.

 

So, I don't think you have to worry about conflict between starting the job and starting grad school -- you will be able to decide in early 2015 and give proper notice to Intel if necessary. The real question is whether you even want to go to grad school. It kind of sounds like you do and I think it would be a good idea for you to talk it out (i.e. consider pros/cons etc.) because I find that doing this usually helps me determine what I actually want. And you have a nice advantage of a very good/strong backup plan so that you don't really need to apply to safety schools. You should only apply to schools where you would give up the Intel job to attend!

 

Yeah I do wish to start grad school, there is something so unique about teaching, not sure what it is, but it's rewarding. Plus, the freedom as a PhD student is fantastic.

I'll see what I can do, a lot of this is dependent on my GRE score (will take the exam this Saturday). I am so infuriated that a low GRE score will get my application tossed out, but a high score does nothing but get your application reviewed. I find all of my other experiences superb for a 22 yr old (3 research positions, and a 6-mo internship at Intel), plus a high GPA....  But NOPE! not a good student, should have gotten a few more GRE math questions correct, to the trash my app goes! >_>

[TakeruK]

Good luck on the GRE! 

 

Just to clarify some things -- a PhD isn't about teaching. It's really about academic research and throughout your grad program, you may encounter a lot of people who will want you to just do as little teaching as possible or treat teaching as a chore that gets in the way of their "real" work. Just wanted to prepare you for that--graduate school isn't as idealistic as you might think (remember, academia implicitly supports the GRE by their continued use of it!)

 

Also, some good news -- most GRE minimums are quite low (well below average scores) so that programs don't automatically reject an otherwise qualified candidate. Obviously, you want to prepare as much as you can but don't fear that your GRE will be the one thing that gets you rejected, because that is quite unlikely (unless you score completely terribly).

[RP15]

Good luck on the GRE! 

 

Just to clarify some things -- a PhD isn't about teaching. It's really about academic research and throughout your grad program, you may encounter a lot of people who will want you to just do as little teaching as possible or treat teaching as a chore that gets in the way of their "real" work. Just wanted to prepare you for that--graduate school isn't as idealistic as you might think (remember, academia implicitly supports the GRE by their continued use of it!)

 

Also, some good news -- most GRE minimums are quite low (well below average scores) so that programs don't automatically reject an otherwise qualified candidate. Obviously, you want to prepare as much as you can but don't fear that your GRE will be the one thing that gets you rejected, because that is quite unlikely (unless you score completely terribly).

 

 

Ok thank you for your input.

 

Yeah I have a decent grasp of what graduate school entails, I've done a few REUs and research in France as well, overall I find it enjoyable. 

 

Being an intern at Intel is fun too. Completely different, but fun (although the business side of it gets irking).

 

I didn't know that about the GRE. I always figured that if a student gets below, say 162 in the Quant, he's not even worth reviewing. Currently Magoosh is estimating around 160 for me for the Quant. I'll try my best, but being a full time student and working at Intel is really difficult to find time to study...

 

Hey now that I think of it, if I get a low score, would it be worth mentioning in my SoP that my status as a FT Intel employee and college student impeded me from studying for the GRE? Haven't thought of that until now.

[TakeruK]

Cutoffs are definitely not anywhere as high as 162. Top programs in my field that even publish cutoffs (many do not) usually list them at about 40th to 50th percentile. Don't trust numbers that show things like "Average GRE score of admitted applicants" because 1) these are not cutoffs and 2) you are making a correlation = causation logical fallacy if you assume that the GRE score is what actually determines the admission decision. I think these high numbers actually exist because many top students do score well on GRE tests, but that doesn't mean you need to score well on a GRE test to be considered a top student.

 

Don't try to excuse your low score in any way. It just highlights the low score even more and making excuses is generally viewed poorly, especially in a SOP.

[lyonessrampant]

--Adding only that while "If it were I" is technically correct because of the linking verb were, "if it were me" is WAY more common and likely will supplant the correct (whatever that means) version soon, so carry on with "if it were me" and GOOD LUCK!

[RP15]

--Adding only that while "If it were I" is technically correct because of the linking verb were, "if it were me" is WAY more common and likely will supplant the correct (whatever that means) version soon, so carry on with "if it were me" and GOOD LUCK!

 

Since you took the time to reply to my thread, I shall honor you by using "If it were I" henceforth

 

 

Cutoffs are definitely not anywhere as high as 162. Top programs in my field that even publish cutoffs (many do not) usually list them at about 40th to 50th percentile. Don't trust numbers that show things like "Average GRE score of admitted applicants" because 1) these are not cutoffs and 2) you are making a correlation = causation logical fallacy if you assume that the GRE score is what actually determines the admission decision. I think these high numbers actually exist because many top students do score well on GRE tests, but that doesn't mean you need to score well on a GRE test to be considered a top student.

 

Don't try to excuse your low score in any way. It just highlights the low score even more and making excuses is generally viewed poorly, especially in a SOP.

 

Good point, I figured it'd make me sound childish in trying to justify my low score. If anything it'll make me sound insecure.

Thanks for the tip

Edited November 5, 2014 by RP15

[ktk]

Would there be a possibility that you could convert your job offer into a summer internship? That's what I plan to do if I get an offer from companies in the coming weeks. It's not research but if it's what you want to do, well... Sounds good by me.