Applying to programs as a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science

[PM64]

I'll be graduating in May as a Computer Science major and am looking to apply to graduate programs in Philosophy that begin Fall '15. I won't get into the reasons underlying this decision here.

 

GRE: 169V 168Q (first and probably only attempt, just took it today so I don't know my writing score yet)

 

GPA: ~2.9 (has gradually improved since my first year and I can probably bring this up to a 3.0 by the end of this semester)

 

background in philosophy: only 2 classes, but 100+ books on my own and a significant number of articles

 

primary areas of interest: metaphysics, logic, epistemology, philosophy of mind, philosophy of language, aesthetics, philosophy of science

 

I've checked my writing sample over with various professors, so assume that it is on par with those of the other candidates for where I'm applying. I will have only 1 letter of reference from a philosophy professor. The other two I will likely try to get from my professors in Artificial Intelligence and Discrete Math (any other suggestions?).

 

I can honestly see my application being interpreted in vastly different ways. Here are two examples:

1) "He has high GRE scores, has gradually improved his GPA, and it looks like he just happened to find his true calling later than others. I can see him succeeding in our program."

2) "The disparity between his GRE scores and GPA show that he is generally an undedicated student. Additionally, he has almost no formal background in Philosophy and I can't see him performing well here."

 

I know schools attach different weights to the different parts of one's application, but can somebody give me a general idea as to how I stand with respect to broad categories of standards (i.e. rank #25-50 PhD programs, top 15 or so MA programs, lower ranked MA programs, etc.)?

 

Funding is a fairly high priority for me and I will not be able to pay the full cost of attending most master's programs unaided. With this in mind, my realistic (at least I hope) goal is to get into a decent MA program with significant or full funding to build up an academic background that will make me a competitive applicant for top 50 PhD programs in the future. Is this feasible given my status which includes a lack of a formal background in Philosophy?

Edited November 23, 2014 by PM64

[overoverover]

Sounds to me like MA programs would be your best bet. Maybe apply to a few MAs like Tufts, Brandeis, and GSU and a couple of PhDs, but only PhD institutions where you'd actually be happy.

I don't think Brandeis and Tufts fully fund, but I know GSU does. I don't know about other MA programs.

[Monadology]

Seconding the MA suggestion. UWM is another excellent MA program that has tuition remission + stipend. The stipend is low, but Milwaukee is a cheap city, so it's possible to scrape by on it with roommates if you can work during the summer. 

 

If you can get a letter from a second philosophy prof, that would be ideal. You may want to ask one of your letter writers to include comments on your GPA (explaining why it is low, how that doesn't reflect on your academic ability at this stage etc...). 

 

PhD programs will be tough. If you can afford the application fees, it can't hurt to try, but you'll be competing with students who have strong philosophical backgrounds from prestigious institutions, stellar GPAs, stellar GREs and recommendations from well known philosophers. Many programs thin out the pool by GPA/GRE first, since reading through every writing sample just isn't feasible. The lack of philosophy background will also be a reason for setting your application aside, unless your CS background fits with some specialty of the program. Finally, having only one philosophy professor write a LoR will hurt a lot more at a PhD program than an MA program, since they will only have one third party's perspective on your philosophical ability.  

 

So, your plan to apply to MA programs first seems like the right plan to have. 

Edited November 23, 2014 by Monadology

[Infinite Zest]

I think you'd be a great candidate for some really good MA programs. You could also use the chance to work on your writing sample. Based on the feedback I've gotten from various professors, previous candidates, and other prospective candidates, there's no such thing as polishing your writing sample enough. I'm "done" working on my sample and that took me over a year of work. I am very proud of it, but I know it still could be better.

[alopachuca]

Out of curiosity, when you say 100+ books on your own, you're referring to relevant philosophy texts (by this I mean the types of books you would read in a philosophy program anyway)? I personally haven't read even near to 100 philosophy books cover to cover. That's really impressive. 

 

As for your question, MAs are often recommended to students in your situation, along with students with low philosophy GPAs or weak writing samples. Would definitely be the right plan. Funding might be an issue for you. Don't waste money or time applying to PhD programs. 

[dgswaim]

I could see Carnegie Mellon being into an applicant with this kind of background. Or even that "Group in Logic and Methodology of Science" at Berkeley. 

[Infinite Zest]

Out of curiosity, when you say 100+ books on your own, you're referring to relevant philosophy texts (by this I mean the types of books you would read in a philosophy program anyway)? I personally haven't read even near to 100 philosophy books cover to cover. That's really impressive. 

 

As for your question, MAs are often recommended to students in your situation, along with students with low philosophy GPAs or weak writing samples. Would definitely be the right plan. Funding might be an issue for you. Don't waste money or time applying to PhD programs. 

 

Yeah, props to reading 100+ philosophy books.

[Nastasya_Filippovna]

I was just curious- your writing sample- is it from one of your philosophy courses or on a philosophical topic? Perhaps this was implied, but I just wanted to know for sure. 

[PM64]

Thanks for the suggestions and advice so far everyone.

 

 

Out of curiosity, when you say 100+ books on your own, you're referring to relevant philosophy texts (by this I mean the types of books you would read in a philosophy program anyway)? I personally haven't read even near to 100 philosophy books cover to cover. That's really impressive. 

 

As for your question, MAs are often recommended to students in your situation, along with students with low philosophy GPAs or weak writing samples. Would definitely be the right plan. Funding might be an issue for you. Don't waste money or time applying to PhD programs. 

Yes and thanks. A good portion have been from the required and recommended reading lists of the philosophy courses offered at my university. Only a small portion have been about certain continental philosophers/philosophy that I don't think I would encounter in the course of my studies at American universities.

 

 

I was just curious- your writing sample- is it from one of your philosophy courses or on a philosophical topic? Perhaps this was implied, but I just wanted to know for sure. 

It's related to the topic I've done the most independent reading on, theories of truth. Material related to this topic is typically tied up with theories of meaning and reference as well, but my writing sample doesn't focus on those. I just picked something I was interested in and started out with a few introductory books before moving onto more specialized ones and finally articles, both to establish a well-informed stance of my own and to develop more sympathy for the motivations behind the positions I disagree with in order to really hit them where it hurts with my arguments (it sounds cruel putting it this way lol).

 

 

I could see Carnegie Mellon being into an applicant with this kind of background. Or even that "Group in Logic and Methodology of Science" at Berkeley. 

I don't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but I definitely remember Carnegie Mellon having a multidisciplinary program dealing with logic, methodology, decision/game theory, etc. in addition to their philosophy one where it sounded like a background in CS is actually something they're looking for. Although, I also seem to remember looking into their financial aid and costs of attendance and concluding that it would be too expensive for me. 

Edited November 24, 2014 by PM64

[philstudent1991]

Yes, those that have suggested an MA are quite right. Tufts and Brandeis and great but do not fund, at least not sufficiently. After that, Georgia State and Wisconsin Milwaukee are probably the best two funded MAs, in terms of placement, faculty quality, student quality, PhD preparation, etc. University of Houston is also good and funds some students.  

[PM64]

Yes, those that have suggested an MA are quite right. Tufts and Brandeis and great but do not fund, at least not sufficiently. After that, Georgia State and Wisconsin Milwaukee are probably the best two funded MAs, in terms of placement, faculty quality, student quality, PhD preparation, etc. University of Houston is also good and funds some students.  

I checked out Georgia State and they seemed to specifically mention that people in situations like mine with respect to my lack of a formal background in philosophy are not eligible for their MA program. I think I would qualify for the University of Houston, but I would be required take a bunch of extra classes that would make up for my lack of a formal background. Although, I do still plan on applying there because depending on what kind of funding offer I receive (assuming I'm admitted) it may still be viable option for me even with the extra courses.

 

I should have also mentioned my state of residence and undergraduate university which are Virginia and the University of Virginia, respectively. Virginia Tech has one of the top 5 terminal MA programs according to the PGR so I'll definitely be applying there as well. The one PhD program I'll be applying to is UVA as sort of a long shot. I think the faculty at UVA are generally aware of the GPA disparity between the engineering and arts & sciences students here (which is quite significant), so that might make my application look a bit better than it would otherwise.

 

Do you think it would be worth applying to programs at Canadian universities (taking the particulars of my situation into account, not just in general) if I intend to move onto a PhD program in the US in the future? I haven't been able to come to any conclusions about how being an American will factor into admission or how a MA from a Canadian University would look on applications to American PhD programs, but from what I've read it seems like admission is generally more difficult for Canadian MA programs and they also seem to offer more funding (MA seems to be more of a requisite path to take rather than a "remedial" one in Canada).

 

I'm trying to at least determine the schools I'm applying to ASAP so that I can give my letter writers (who I have yet to actually contact about this) a month of leeway at minimum (because I want to have the information for how they are to submit their letters on hand if they request it of me). This is the current list of schools I plan on applying to:

 

University of Virginia

Tufts University

Brandeis University

Virginia Tech

University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee

University of Houston

San Francisco State University

Texas Tech

Colorado State University

Texas A&M

Edited November 28, 2014 by PM64

[ZiggyPhil]

Others are correct to recommend you go the M.A. route, but in your case I would also throw out an application to Carnegie Mellon (assuming you'd be interested in going there), and perhaps another logic-heavy program as well (Not my area, so I don't know what other program to recommend).  Such programs are apt to look more favorably on your background, and there's little to lose and a lot to gain by applying there in addition to M.A. programs.  

[philstudent1991]

PM 64: Considering the lack of formal background in philosophy, I think applying to Tufts is a waste of time. Just my honest opinion.

[Griswald]

I was accepted by Tufts a few years back without any formal background in philosophy. (I did manage to audit a graduate seminar at a different university the semester before applying, however, and the professor helped me with my writing sample and wrote me a letter. I imagine that helped me somewhat.) 

[Infinite Zest]

From the Tufts philosophy page:

 

"Many admitted students have studied philosophy as undergraduates, but applicants with little formal training in philosophy are regularly admitted to the program as well. However, we usually do not admit students who have never taken a philosophy course or who do not seem to be familiar with the analytic philosophical tradition."

 

You seem at least somewhat familiar with "the analytic philosophy tradition."