Language requirement & admission

[cooperstreet]

For schools that have a minimum language requierment of two years: Do they mean that you must have two years of training before you apply? or do they mean that you must have two years of training before you start classes? Anyone know how much creedence an adcom gives to statements in your SOP that you intend to do a summer intensive before classes start?

[TMP]

For entering in the program, then yes, you must demonstrate proficiency in that language equivalent of two years' worth of training through LOR or transcripts. Just enough to be able to pass their reading exams but they'll probably expect you to continue your training a bit further once you're in to prepare for dissertation research.

This is especially important for Classics and fields with multiple language requirement. Because no professor wants to supervise a graduate student starting from scratch who is going to take a lot longer to finish the PhD. Unless you're brilliant.

[StrangeLight]

while they mean that you need two years of training at the time of entering the program, for the sake of your application you would be better off having two years at the time of applying. that way, those two years' worth of language classes actually show up on your transcript. anyone can say they're taking a second year of french or greek or latin, but if the course isn't on the transcript then the ad-coms will most likely consider you as not having that year of the language.

if we're talking about your primary language having less than two years on your transcript at the time you apply, this will be a problem. your application probably won't make the first round of cuts at most top 50 history departments. if it's your second research language, then this will likely still hurt you with top 20 programs, but 21-50 will take you if you have 2+ years of your primary language and 1 year of your secondary language (with one year in progress).

[synthla]

When it comes to "formal" training, I actually had 0 years of my primary language and only 1 semester of my secondary language on my applications and was still admitted to two top-20 programs. I didn't even explain myself really, just said I was proficient in the latter and working on regaining proficiency in the former (which is now the case). Both true, but no one asked me to prove it.

[cooperstreet]

StrangeLight

I'm curious as to where you are getting this information. Everyone I have talked to (meaning, professors at these schools) haven't said anything remotely like this. There are a lot of non-traditional language students--people who acquired the language outside of skills outside of the traditional university setting--and they are not immediately cut, and many are admitted.

[StrangeLight]

StrangeLight

I'm curious as to where you are getting this information. Everyone I have talked to (meaning, professors at these schools) haven't said anything remotely like this. There are a lot of non-traditional language students--people who acquired the language outside of skills outside of the traditional university setting--and they are not immediately cut, and many are admitted.

it's not a hard-and-fast requirement, and people who have language proficiency from sources other than educational courses are completely set. what i am referring to is a situation where a student is obtaining both languages from coursework only and doesn't have two years of instruction in their primary language at the time of applying. if students can demonstrate proficiency on their own, from personal study or life experience or whatever, then they're fine. if they're listing off "beginner" or "fair" on the language proficiency part of the application and saying, "but i'm taking second year french this year," that's not sufficient if that's your primary language.

if you have near-fluency without any coursework, that's not a problem. better, even. but i have heard from professors on ad-coms that students who are relying completely on university courses for their languages will not be considered proficient if their primary research language only has 100-level courses on the student's transcript at the time of their application.

i didn't mean to (and don't think i did) equate coursework with proficiency. i merely said that students relying on coursework to demonstrate their proficiency will need one language to have a 200-level course (or second year/intermediate level) on their transcripts or ad-coms will treat them as being beginners in the language, even if they're taking the 200-level class at the time of applying.

[cooperstreet]

Thanks.

My situation is weird--I took three, ten-week, non-credit courses in Arabic. Now, there are no transcripts to supply the information to adcoms that I completed these courses. In addition, I was unemployed for four months, and probaby spent 6-8 hours a day studying. Since reading is what is most important, and reading is the skill you can develop best through self-study, I have become a pretty accomplished reader in Arabic. Adcoms will have to rely on and trust my self-assessment (which is intermediate-high in reading). Just to be sure, I'm thinking of doing a two-week intensive (60 hours) abroad that will test you for placement, then give you a cerftificate after you complete a specific level.

[soleprovider14]

Not to steal your thread but could anyone look at my language profile and let me know if I should be worried.

I am applying to hist programs with a focus on modern European (German) history, as far as language training:

At the time of applying I will have:

1 semester of German completed and will be taking the second semester during this time (so I will have technically a full year of German on my transcript)

Fluency in Russian

6 years of French (although I haven't taken in it a few years I am still proficient in reading)

Fluency in Hebrew

I am worried that due to my limited German training I may not make it past the "first round" of cuts. I am applying to a multitude of schools, some ranked in the top 30, some around the 50's and a few in the top 100 (I hope that at least for the ones outside the top 50 I will not be cut due to my language training).

Should I address the fact that upon graduation I will have 1.5 or 2 full years of German and will do another course over the summer? It seems that basing my language training on an application that is sent out during the Fall when I will clearly have another 1 or 2 semesters of the language is a bit ridiculous.