100 % rejects

[Krish]

Hello to all of you. I am new to this group.

I had applied to 7 Univ for MS in Comp science for fall 2009. I did not get a single admit.

My scores are 1460/3.5 and 108/120. I have adjusted to life after 100 % rejects, as I was employed immediately after gradudation (B E) in 2008 in a multinational Company. My list was a little ambitious, although 2 of the rejects were shocking. The univ were -

UW Madison

UCSB

UNC CH

UMD College Park

Gatech

NCSU

Stony brook

Now I would like to apply again. I plan to give the advanced GRE, to beef up my applns.

My queries are -

1. What are my chances if I do reapply to the same univ. ?

2. Should I take professional help to write my SOP ? (I had written mine myself)

3. If I ask for aid, does it go against me ?

4. I would like to reapply to NCSU, Stony Brook, and Gatech. And add Suny Buffalo, Virginatech, Ohio state univ, Univ. of Penn etc. Can you suggest any other Univ that I should explore ?

Thank you in advance.

Regards,

Krish

[frankdux]

Welcome to the forum krish!

The title of this particular board is confusing. the "comments, questions, etc." label is referring to ways in which the entire forum can be improved. You should copy and paste your thread over on the "Applications" board. You'll get lots more responses.

[Stories]

You shouldn't explicitly ask for money; it's implied in your application already. And no, needing money won't hurt your application than the next guy who needs money, as well. Every student will need support, so don't worry about that.

You shouldn't need a "professional" writer for your SOP. Just have faculty members take a look at your application (they know what kinds of things to look for).

[thefrightfulmuse]

Your GRE scores I find a bit out of whack. You got a 1460 combined and a 3.5 analytic writing, if I'm reading correctly. That would mean you couldn't have scored anything less than 660 on the verbal section. And a 660 verbal is a very high score - equivalent to 93rd percentile. But a 3.5 analytic writing is only equivalent to the 15th percentile.

I find it very strange someone could beat at least 93% of test takers on the verbal section, but only 15% on writing. Perhaps you should request a regrade on your writing sample. Something is amiss here and I think any admissions counselor would think the same. Admissions committees like to see at least some sense of balance in an applicant's record which is why on the SAT, an 800 math and 400 verbal will get you rejected by almost any decent college, even if you're majoring in math. High and obvious imbalances suggest something more than "he's good at math, but not so much at verbal." When the balance is way off like that, it usually suggests a whole array of hidden problems - something a college would rather not deal with.

I would advise you to do two things: 1) request a regrade or retake the GRE. Try to get a more balanced set of scores. A 1300 combined with a 4.5 analytic writing would be FAR better than your 1460 and a 3.5... 2) Apply to a few easy schools so at least you have a jumping point if you have no other options.

Good luck.

[SconnieNation]

I dont find it strange at all (regarding the high verbal score and low writing score). Verbal is completely knowing definitions. Go ahead and make a case about how it's understanding the relationships. The bottomline is that if you know the definitions, you can score very well.

Now formulating a compelling argument or defense in a timed environment with no knowledge of the topic until the countdown begins requires an entirely different skill set. Just my 2 cents.

[ridgey]

Now formulating a compelling argument or defense in a timed environment with no knowledge of the topic until the countdown begins requires an entirely different skill set. Just my 2 cents.

I'm of the opinion that the GRE is ridiculous overall, but the AW section is by far the most ridiculous. To score well, you have to use the writing structure they teach in middle school. Yes, the timed environment, thinking on the spot, etc, add extra pressure, but no matter how well one does these things (and how skilled the writer is) if the essay doesn't conform to the structure, it won't score highly.

Of course, poor writing won't score well either

OP, there have been some discussions over at the Chronicle forums on whether the AW section of the GRE is important, and the consensus seems to be that it isn't very important. If you're submitting a writing sample with your applications adcomms will use that to judge your writing ability over the GRE AW any day of the week.

I'm also going to be a reapplicant (so take everything I say with a grain of salt!) and the difference between my applications last time and this time is that last time I was trying to convince committees that I am wonderful. This time, all I'm trying to do is make my research ideas sound intriguing, and demonstrate that I have the skills to succeed.

1. What are my chances if I do reapply to the same univ. ?

No-one here can answer that for you. Your application needs to be stronger than it was a year ago. If you've been working this year, you need to articulate how that experience makes you a better applicant (without explicitly adding "since I was rejected last year" to the end).

2. Should I take professional help to write my SOP ? (I had written mine myself)

I don't think it would help. And, some of the applications emphasise that it has to be all your own work and using professional writing services is unethical and if detected will withdraw your acceptance, etc.

3. If I ask for aid, does it go against me ?

Krish

Are you an international student? If so, the UC system will definitely be harder, if not impossible, for you if you're asking for aid. Most other schools will admit you or not on your merits even if they don't offer aid.

All you can do is make sure your application was as strong as it can be. There are no certainties in this game; there are fewer spots than qualified applicants. Good luck.

[jasper.milvain]

I'm also going to be a reapplicant (so take everything I say with a grain of salt!) and the difference between my applications last time and this time is that last time I was trying to convince committees that I am wonderful. This time, all I'm trying to do is make my research ideas sound intriguing, and demonstrate that I have the skills to succeed.

This sounds absolutely brilliant. I think your decision to focus on the research is dead on.

[BruBru]

I can promise you that your GRE score is not the reason you did not get accepted. 1460 combined is a great score and would put you over the minimum that all programs are looking for. Applicants tend to think that great GPA + GRE means admission... this is false. Your statement of purpose and letters of rec are very, very important. I am guessing your statement was poor, or your letters were not good. Don't waste your time on the GRE... keep your current score and work like hell to get a great statement written.

[thefrightfulmuse]

Letters, your statement, and your research are definitely the most important factors in getting admitted. However, GRE scores are probably the most important factor in *not* getting admitted. As long as your scores aren't disqualifying, they don't matter much, but if they are out of whack, then it can be a major problem.

I'll reiterate... students tend to think nothing of being out of balance, especially those of the scientific persuasion. If they can get an 800 quantitative, they think it shouldn't matter if they walk around drooling on themselves and if they can't form complete sentences. That 1460 with a 3.5 analytic writing is a problem. Admissions committees don't think like students... they'll think either there's something severely out of balance with your personality/mental state or they'll think you cheated on the V&Q but couldn't pull of a cheat plan on the AW.

You don't need super high scores, but you do need a sense of balance in those scores.

[sunshine6]

I thought the writing component of my GRE was insipid. The grading council thought the same of me. I am a native English speaker, and have been complimented on my writing style multiple times in the past. Yet, my score was just horrific. So I say the writing portion scoring could use some updating. (I did well on the verbal...)

If there was a circumstance that may have hindered your writing a good essay, you may mention it in an SOP. Be sure not to make excuses however, and send a writing sample along with your SOP, whether or not it's required. It could offset any perceived damage the score may have caused.

Be cautious though, if your writing sample is in another language, then perfect translation is necessary. In that case, you could indeed ask for a help from a professional translator. No ethical issues with that.

Keep in mind too, that economic issues have limited some universities total allowed admissions. That may be why you had some surprise rejections. Another problem could have been a lack of contact with the staff you want to work with. If they can only have one student, they will take the one they have communicated with previously. Keep in mind there is nothing wrong with sending a friendly email to ask for any feedback on your rejected app. This may clear up many questions and make the reapp a breeze.

I wish you lots of luck on your reapplication process!

[was1984]

Most (yes, I said most) of the professors at the schools you applied to either don't even know what the AWA section is, or don't care at all about it, given you are a CS guy. I got a similar score to yours on the GRE (790Q 640V and 4.5AWA), so those saying that is way out of whack obviously don't understand that there is a huge difference between being well read and being able to write dull, formulaic essays, especially when as an engineer/CS guy you don't get much exposure to structured writing. I wouldn't worry a bit about your GRE score.

Regarding last year, I think it was an exceptionally tough year and (hopefully?) you should have better luck this year. I was purposefully safe in my application choices and was rejected (or told I could delay my application for a semester) from all but one. Even the school I was admitted to, which is only a top 70ish school in electrical engineering (but happens to have an awesome prof in my sub-field, and great skiing to boot) was only able to accept 15% of applications.

If I were in your situation I'd apply to most of the same schools again, and maybe add another school or two a bit further down the list.

[MaximKat]

Don't worry about GRE. I had similar scores (800/600/3.5) and was admitted to several top 20 CS programs. As long as your writing section of TOEFL is ok, low AW scores will not be a problem.

[twocosmicfish]

I think other posters here have addressed this pretty well, but I will add a couple of comments.

1) The GRE is one of the least important parts of the application. If you need to focus on numbers, focus on gpa.

2) AW is essentially meaningless as long as it is 4.5+. Lower scores are not killers, but they can raise eyebrows depending on the rest of your application - if the only evidence they have of your ability is a 3.5 AW score, it will hurt you. If you have a decent SOP, TOEFL writing score, or publications they will probably overlook it.

3) Low AW + High Verbal = professional exam taker! Not literally, of course, but the lopsided scores indicate someone who has studied the vocab and other items for the Verbal but could not seem to transform them into a coherent essay. Again, this is not a killer, but it raises concerns.

4) No one can give you a good recommendation for a school without knowing your speciality. For example, Berkeley is widely regarded as one of the top schools in my field (EE) but has essentially no faculty in my specialty of computational electromagnetics - they would not admit me even if I was perfect and I would have no good reason to go if they did. At the grad level "fit" is very important.