Awkward LOR situation

[sapphire93]

I am in the process of applying for Masters/PhD (in the UK) and wanted a second LOR off a person who has previously supervised me and have worked for in a teaching position so have a strong relationship with. However they told me that they would be unable to write me a reference for PhD as they believe I am not ready.

 

The day before this I had been in contact with a potential supervisor at another university who had suggested a project they were looking for a student for and seemed quite interested (they had been replying to all of my emails in the space of a few hours) even though I had informed them that I was an undergraduate. This person knows my intended letter writer well and I have told them that they supervised me, so I feel that I am a bit stuck if I can't get a LOR from them.

 

So now I am not sure how to proceed. I feel very uncomfortable continuing applying for a PhD this year without this person's support, and if I decide this, I don't know what to say to the potential supervisor to end the conversation, but not on bad terms as I would be interested in working with them in the future. (Unfortunately the university's MSc program is not a good fit for me, so I would not want to be there unless I was a research student).

 

Also, I am concerned that my letter writer feels he does not think I am ready for a PhD. I would like to know why they think this, but feel that asking them outright isn't taking good initiative and I should know myself. I know I have a lack of research experience, so it may just be that they expect students to have more experience before entering research degrees, but if it is something else I want to fix it.

[MathCat]

If you have a strong relationship, you should probably ask them why they think you're not ready. But if I'm reading this correctly, you did a Bachelor's and are trying to go straight to PhD (outside of the US system, where this is the norm)? It is not really surprising if this is the case - almost everybody will do the Masters first.

[Victoris]

Simply ask the prospective letter writer, what are the characteristics of a student who is able to succeed in a doctoral program.  Inform him/her that you want to develop those attributes and will work on your weak points; everyone has them.  Asking a question for clarity does not conclude to an unawareness of oneself.  Everyone has room for growth and should continue to gain knowledge throughout their lifetimes.  

 

Per research experience, it depends on your field of interest.  Some people (including myself) are accepted to doctoral programs without any research; beyond course papers.   

[rising_star]

I agree with the advice to talk to your supervisor about why s/he thinks you aren't ready for a doctoral program. Definitely frame it as a conversation about what you need to do to be ready for one in their eyes. 

 

Will it look weird if you apply without the supervisor's letter? Yes and no. If you have three strong academic references from people that believe you can do well and succeed in a doctoral program, then you submit those and don't second guess yourself. The person at the doctoral program may end up calling your supervisor for information but there's really nothing you can do about that. 

 

Good luck!

[bsharpe269]

I definitely think it is appropriate to ask for more details from your supervisor. Like others have mentioned, you don't need to confront him in a defensive way, like you want to talk him into writing the letter. Everyone has skills that would benefit from improving so I would just ask what he sees as your current weaknesses and what advice he has for improving them.