Considering switching advisors or quitting. Help?

[sqfasi]

I've been having problems with my advisor that I believe are beyond the norm and would love some outside opinions. Is the issues below normal? Are these issues salvageable or should I cut my losses? I am starting the second semester of my second year of coursework (out of three).

 

- First off, I have never received a paper back with comments. Even when I make an appointment to talk specifically about how I did on a paper from last semester, he usually ends up talking about something completely different or what I could do the next semester. So I have received next to no constructive feedback other than "It was good," which tells me nothing about what I need to improve on (and I can admit my papers are not perfect).

 

- He forgot a letter of rec for me last year. This was after I asked for it in person with over a month's notice, and reminded him in the weeks leading up to--and after the deadline when the fellowships office informed me it was missing. I emailed him about it repeatedly with no reply. Perhaps this was because he was busy and chairing two job search committees, but I do not believe this excuses anything. He has never mentioned it.

 

- He had me plan an entire project for him this summer, coordinating between two separate groups with hours of my time, only to completely pull the plug on the project and not tell me about it.

 

- His seminars run up to 3 hours over the scheduled 3 hours regularly. He did not tell us about any special scheduling when the course began and just runs it until he feels (or we look visibly) tired. When he cancelled a class due to a job talk, he rescheduled it on a Saturday and still ran it just as long--though he does bring food to sustain us during these meetings, I'm not sure it makes up for the hours I could be spending doing research or having a life. And he scheduled additional meetings during study week. Apparently he's been doing all this for years. 

 

- Also we never received a syllabus for that seminar. He just gave us incomplete references in the class prior that we had to track down. 

 

- I almost never get responses to emails and must hunt him down in person still to little effect. 

 

Or do I just lack the stamina for academia? The rest of his grad students don't seem to be thrilled with the classroom approaches either, but they seem to just grin and bear it. However, he has not forgotten a letter of rec for them to my knowledge. These problems are leaving me paranoid about what will happen when I need his support on the job market or dissertation guidance. I am considering asking another prof to supervise me, but I'm not certain if I should try to work these things out first. Or should I just ask the other prof, who will hopefully say yes, then tell my current advisor I'm leaving due to shifting research interests?

[SymmetryOfImperfection]

LEAVE NOW.

 

DO NOT LOOK BACK.

 

You should be taking this as a personal insult.

[isilya]

Wow...this person is a train wreck. Sounds like he never learned how to manage his time and now it's affecting everyone around him. I agree with Symmetry, leave!! Not necessarily leave the department, but at least try to find another advisor. This is not good!

[fuzzylogician]

I would also recommend changing advisors, though no necessarily leaving the program. If he's unresponsive now, imagine how much worse it could get if you're waiting for his feedback on reading lists for a comprehensive exam or on a dissertation chapter, or to schedule a defense date, or to approve revisions so you can file your dissertation and graduate. And once you're gone, assuming you don't find a TT job straight out of school, you'll be on the job market after you have left your school, and trust me, trying to hunt down an unresponsive advisor for letters of recommendation once you're gone is a lot harder, and the stakes are a lot higher, than when applying for a fellowship while in school. Not to mention that if he's not giving you feedback on your work he's not doing his most basic job as an advisor, and clearly you would benefit more from working with someone who would actually read your work. 

 

Since you're half-way through coursework, I'd first look into changing advisors within the same program, before I'd look elsewhere. It's unlikely that you could move to a new school without needing to start your coursework all over again basically from scratch.

[sqfasi]

Thanks for the responses, you guys. Is there a certain amount of notice I should give him? I don't want to burn bridges since he's a big name in my field. Provided that the potential new adviser agrees, I would like to do this before the semester begins so I can get my classes in order, so I hope it's quick and painless.

 

Do profs have a tendency to turn students away when they ask to switch to work with them? I realize this is probably very individual, but if anyone has any experience with this, I would love to hear how you handled it. Even though I've positively phrased the email to sound like I am asking to switch only due to a change in research interests, I feel like it's a thin lie to cover up the fact I want to get away from my advisor...

[fuzzylogician]

It doesn't matter if it's not entirely accurate, your goal is to allow everyone to save face. If you can say you switched advisors for some objective reason like a change in research interests and not a subjective reason like a personal problem between the two of you, it'd be better for everyone. No one will question the switch if it seems "logical." 

 

No one can tell you whether or not this professor will agree to be your advisor, it will depend on their personality and professional circumstances, including questions such as whether they can take on new students and whether they happen to have had prior experience taking over students of your current advisor and how it turned out. I doubt that this is the first time anyone has had difficulties with him, given your description. It's a delicate question how much of the difficulties you've been having you want to share with your new potential advisor. I'd start with as little information as possible and try and keep the discussion on the factual side. If there is any way to explain wanting to switch purely as a change of research interests, try to do that. I do think it's a  good idea to get the process started as soon as possible. It'll get more difficult as more time passes.

[rising_star]

See, I don't know how awful the things you describe are, sqfasi. I say this because a lot of the things you describe (not giving detailed feedback on writing, missing a rec letter) are things that my PhD advisor did. It's just his way and I knew that going in. The stuff about the grad seminar is more concerning to me, though. Given that, I think you should talk to your Director of Graduate Studies (DGS) about what happens if you want to change advisors. There may be certain procedures within your department that you need to apply by. You should definitely talk to the other professors about the possibility of having them as an advisor before you approach your current advisor. You don't want to quit one advisor without having another!

[fuzzylogician]

See, I don't know how awful the things you describe are, sqfasi. I say this because a lot of the things you describe (not giving detailed feedback on writing, missing a rec letter) are things that my PhD advisor did. It's just his way and I knew that going in. 

 

I agree that without context each individual problem could be a non-issue. If you have an advisor who is not good with email but is aware of that and e.g. gives you his phone number for situations just like this, then it would be a non-issue. If your advisor is usually super reliable but one time gets busy/confused/distracted and misses one letter submission deadline, that would suck but I'd understand. More so if they apologize and less so if they pretend it never happened, though. If they give feedback in person but never in written comments, I'd actually not be happy with it, but as long as it was a topic you could discuss in conversation, I'd probably find a way to make it work. Mostly it's about having good communication so you can work out any problems and disagreements. Not being able to talk about your problems makes them bigger and more prominent, even in cases where they would have been manageable if you could just talk them through. Since the OP doesn't seem to have a good way to address their concerns with their advisor, my feeling is that this relationship won't work in the long run and it's better to seek a more fitting one earlier rather than later. The point is not so much whether the advisor is "not good" in general, because the OP says other students get along with this professor just fine; it's about the fit between the OP and their advisor, which boils down to their personalities and how they fit together, and in this case it seems to me like maybe they don't. 

[sqfasi]

See, I don't know how awful the things you describe are, sqfasi. I say this because a lot of the things you describe (not giving detailed feedback on writing, missing a rec letter) are things that my PhD advisor did. It's just his way and I knew that going in. The stuff about the grad seminar is more concerning to me, though. Given that, I think you should talk to your Director of Graduate Studies (DGS) about what happens if you want to change advisors. There may be certain procedures within your department that you need to apply by. You should definitely talk to the other professors about the possibility of having them as an advisor before you approach your current advisor. You don't want to quit one advisor without having another!

 

Good point, rising_star, and thanks for sharing your experience. You're right that 'awful' is hard to gauge since it is so subjective and this is a tricky situation...Part of the reason it has been so hard for me to get to this point of considering switching is because my advisor is a genuinely kind and enthusiastic person who has gone through a rough time in his personal life. I have so much sympathy, but I do not know if the personal issues are the cause of these behaviors in communication or if they are inherent. Or perhaps it was also a bad year due to over-scheduling with committees--I don't want to assume anything here. I just know it has been affecting my ability to do my best work from both the extra stress of chasing him down and a lack of reliable critique to engage with. From other students, I know the classroom conduct which certainly is a habit of many years.

 

However, nobody mentioned difficulties in communication with him when I asked for the dirt during prospective students' day. Everyone spoke so highly of him and focused on his good sense of humor and passion. It was not until I arrived, officially registered and taking classes, that these problems became apparent. Yet everyone made it seem like I could not complain about this to anyone, despite the fact that they too had issues with his teaching style. Perhaps focusing on the positive aspects is how the other students are dealing with this. Or they have a higher tolerance/patience level. 

 

My own experience is that he appears to treat his advisees more as young friends with whom he can spend 6 hours chatting about his favorite topics and takes practical advising duties with a lax attitude. This may be ok for some, but it is driving me insane and I can accept if it's just a difference in personality, as fuzzylogician put it. Some people may not need much advising. I thought I was one of those. I certainly don't expect hand-holding or pats on the head, but this whole process made me realize there are a few basics that need to be covered in order for someone to have the title of advisor. Occasional concrete feedback, syllabi/reliable schedules for courses, and letters of rec when asked are among those for me.

 

I may have to tweak my research to apply to a different prof (aside from the most logical new advisor in the program--his wife!), but it may be worthwhile if I have my sanity and can at least enjoy the process a bit more.