Psychology to CJ? Help Needed. :-)

[Ilspflouz]

Hi everyone,

 

I am considering pursuing a PhD in criminal justice, but am in need of some advice/guidance. To sum it up: I graduated with a BS in psychology in 2012, and planned on going to graduate school for psych. However, my research interests are all justice-oriented topics (e.g. issues like violence prevention, risk assessment, interventions to reduce recidivism, etc). As a result, one of my advisers has suggested I look into CJ programs in addition to/instead of psych programs.

 

I have heard that criminological theory is focused on punishment and deterrance, rather than prevention/intervention (which is what I am interested in). Can anyone here comment if this is true? If so, does this mean I would primarily receive training in punishment/deterrance strategies/theory in CJ? Or does this depend on the school/your advisor? Most psych PhD programs are set up with a mentorship model (e.g. you have one primary research advisor during your program), is this also true for CJ? Also, I am interested in working directly with police departments and courts to help them create/provide more effective services for perpetrators and victims of crime. Would a graduate program in CJ/Crim allow me to do this? Or is it less action oriented and more theoretical? What are some differences between CJ/Crim programs? It seems like the programs I have seen are both CJ and Crim combined?

 

Lastly, will it be a big problem that my background is in psychology rather than CJ if I do decide to apply to CJ PhD programs? Would it be worth my time to do an MA program instead, or do most CJ PhD programs have you complete an MA on the way to completing a PhD? What is the funding like for MA/PhD programs? I had 2 social science research methods courses in undergrad, in addition to another general introductory statistics course. I had a 3.5 undergrad GPA & currently have ~4.5 years of research experience. 1 of the research labs I was involved in worked with a juvenile court, and I currently work for an organization that archives CJ data. I also have ~3.5 years of applied positions. 1 working directly with justice-involved youth and another working with adult offenders. Additionally, I have 3 conference presentations that all deal with issues in juvenile justice. 

 

I apologize for all the questions/ignorance. I just would like to gain as much information as possible! Thanks in advance for any replies.

Edited February 4, 2015 by AliasJane2342

[donj]

I was in a similar situation as you. My BA was in Psychology/Sociology and I was planning on going to a Psychology PhD program, but most of my research experience and my classes were more closely related to criminology. I applied to whatever Psych PhD programs with research related to crime I could find. A lot of them were clinical, which is not my forte, but I applied anyways. Not surprisingly, I didn't get in. I got into a Psych master's program, but at the end of the day, I decided to switch to a Crim master's program at a school where I had done an internship and knew I would do some worthwhile research there. Now I am applying to Crim PhD's and am having better luck. I know what my research interests and career goals are now, and I would recommend figuring that out for sure before you make a decision. Do you want to be a professor? An instructor? Work for a parole board? Be an analyst in the DOJ? Work at a nonprofit like RAND? There are a lot of different jobs for Psych and Crim PhDs, so figuring out what sounds like the best career option for you will help you pick the right program. For me, I want to be an academic or a government/nonprofit analyst and any research I really WANT to do is related to crime, so that's how I made my decision to switch to Crim/CJ.

 

Crim/CJ programs are similar to Psych in that they are research-oriented and mentorship based, although you may work with more than 1 person. You will have training in theory and research methods wherever you go. However, research interests and theoretical orientation differs with each different faculty. I have heard of a lot of CJ faculty that do research on prevention/intervention. So, if you are interested in risk assessment, or juvenile justice, or police/courts, look for programs with faculty members that share these interests. There are a lot of theories and a LOT of different types of criminology research, so I don't think the field is slanted any particular way.

 

It sounds as if you have a lot of research experience and applied experience related to criminal justice. So, I don't think you will have a problem getting into a Ph.D. Most programs you can get an MA on the way to your PhD. But, if you do have some trouble getting in, you may want to consider a CJ/Crim Master's first. ASC's website (asc41.com) has a list of Masters and PhD programs, and US News has ranked Criminology programs (mostly PhD's).

 

Hope this helps!

[Ilspflouz]

Hey jdownton! Thanks so much, this info was REALLY helpful. I am in the same boat with not being interested in clinical psych, but that seems to be where the most people doing "forensic" work are....which doesn't excite me too much. I have been mainly looking into Community Psych/Prevention Research programs previously. 

 

 

There are a lot of different jobs for Psych and Crim PhDs, so figuring out what sounds like the best career option for you will help you pick the right program. For me, I want to be an academic or a government/nonprofit analyst and any research I really WANT to do is related to crime, so that's how I made my decision to switch to Crim/CJ.

 

Also, this (^^^^) is probably the most helpful thing I've heard from everyone I've talked to about grad programs so far. So thank you for that.

 

Narrowing down to specific careers is tricky.  I've basically narrowed down what my research interests are by trying a bunch of stuff and figuring out what I hated. But I definitely don't have three more years to spend doing that in CJ to figure out career options. Haha. At the moment all I know is that I think that I would be happy doing anything as long as I could both conduct research and applied work at the same time. Any suggestions on how to narrow this down further, or is completing an MA my best bet? I have a contact at MSU's CJ program, and am hoping I can meet with some faculty there soon, so hopefully that will help! Can I ask if you have any insight into how competitive the job market is for people with CJ PhD's? Also, how dificult is it to secure funding for MA/PhD degrees? 

Edited February 4, 2015 by AliasJane2342

[donj]

No problem! Glad I could help, I was in your shoes not too long ago!

 

An MA/MS usually helps pinpoint research interests - it did for me. Since you do seem to have some idea of your interests, I wouldn't advise you against going straight to PhD, as long as the programs have several people with research you find interesting. I know people in their first and second years of PhD programs that are still experimenting a little. But it is 4-6 years of your life so you want to make sure you are going to like what you will be doing, haha. What do you mean by research and applied work? Like interning/working directly inside the CJ system, or collecting data there?

 

I would say the market for CJ/Crim is better than forensic psych. They seem to be pigeonholed into very specific jobs or very specific psych department's they can work in. That's my outside opinion though. Professors tell me that Crim has good employment prospects, because there are constantly more jobs than people. A lot of departments are hiring around the time that people are graduating with PhD's, and it's less saturated than the bigger fields of psych or soc. 

 

Funding depends on the program. A lot of times the higher ranked ones have more funding in the form of research or teaching assistantships or fellowships. There are some MA/MS programs with these opportunities, so if that's very important to you, you'll have to seek those out. Most of the good PhD programs have a lot of funding opportunities, and I think the best programs only accept as many students as they can fund. So, I would say, generally, funding is only as difficult as getting into the program itself is.

[Ilspflouz]

I really do appreciate your replies - you have been so, so helpful. Good stuff! :-)

 

By research and applied work, I mean being able to work directly inside the CJ system, and being able to also collect data/run studies at the same time. From my understanding being a university prof sounds like the easiest way for me to do both. That way I would have the resources/flexibility to both consult with CJ agencies (I'm thinking like work with courts on things like best practice methods for offender rehabilitation/risk assessment/violence prevention programs, etc) and also secure funding for research. I think in an ideal world it would be fantastic to collect data from the agencies I was working with - kind of like "let me collect data on what you are doing here and if it works and I'll come help you accomplish what you want to." But, I understand that isn't always how it works. Plus I like teaching, so that's another reason I think that I would like being a prof. But I also don't know how well I would be able to handle the politics. 

 

My experience with forensic psych has been the same. The majority of the forensic psych faculty I have met just seem to be evaluating the mental health of offenders/competence to stand trial...which is not what I want to do at all. From what you are describing, CJ really does sound like a much better fit for me. It sounds like depending where you end up you could have the flexibility to do a ton of different things in a CJ PhD program. Would you say that is accurate? 

 

In terms of program ranking, are you just talking the way that US News/World Report ranks CJ/Crim programs? Or is there another system that ranks programs? In other words, where should I look to figure out what the best programs in CJ are? Last question, I've heard Criminology is more about developing theory, while CJ is more "action-oriented". Do you think that is accurate?

 

Again, thank you SO MUCH for your insight. 

[donj]

Yes, I think that there is a lot of flexibility in a Crim education. I have definitely heard of professors becoming consultants or otherwise working in the CJ field. 

 

When I talk about rankings, I'm talking about the US News Criminology rankings. I think that's what most people use. Those will help you identify the best doctoral programs, either Criminal Justice or Criminology (Although what you said about theory vs. action might be true, I don't think there's a big difference between the two when it comes to the top programs- instead of looking at the program name, focus on what the faculty seem to be doing there). If you are looking for Master's programs, you can either check ASC's website for a list of Master's programs or check to see if the top PhD schools also have Master's programs.

 

Whatever you decide to do, good luck

[Ilspflouz]

Thanks a ton! Your information is much appreciated.

[TXInstrument11]

I'm in a very similar boat. I got accepted to good options in both fields and it's decision time.

[Pennywise]

I'm not quite as optimistic about academic job prospects for cj/crim phds. I know a lot of cj phd recent grads bc i have 2 close friends in 2 programs. Very few are getting the first research institution tenure track job they dreamed of, unfortunately. A few got tt jobs, but many took solid jobs outside of academia (working for think tanks or state and federal government as number crunchers). One is making a lot of money because he started a quant consulting company. Two got jobs at Rutgers, but they both had preexisting connections with that department.

Now, there is nothing wrong with non academic jobs. The reason they made those choices is that in balance they decided they were better options than, say, adjuncting. One great advantage of crim is that you have more applied options like working for the government (as long as you have a compatible sensibility). For the original poster her research interests seem much more crim so I think that makes perfect sense for her. I just wanted to inject my observations about the real outcomes among two recent crim/cj cohorts.

[Sword_Saint]

I have heard that criminological theory is focused on punishment and deterrance, rather than prevention/intervention (which is what I am interested in). Can anyone here comment if this is true? 

 

What are some differences between CJ/Crim programs? It seems like the programs I have seen are both CJ and Crim combined?

 

Lastly, will it be a big problem that my background is in psychology rather than CJ if I do decide to apply to CJ PhD programs? 

 

1) Short answer: It depends. 

 

Long Answer: Criminological theory focuses on causes of crime, which may or may not be the first step in identifying how to solve criminality in a certain area (prevention / intervention). It depends on whether the criminological work is being done in a purely academic setting or will make its way to policy makers. For example, my undergraduate thesis involved environmental criminology to identify physical characteristics of an environment that contributed to why people commit crime there. The research is being presented to the local law enforcement agency and stake holders, so it may (help) lead to prevention and intervention (also presenting at ACJS in March, hope you see some of you there). Many environmental criminologists are strong proponents for research being applied to the field and being as useful as possible, examples include Drs. Eck and Rossmo (not to say other criminologists work is not useful, just less practically applied at times).

 

2) Criminology is the causes of crime. Criminal Justice is the institutional response to crime (generally). Many programs combine the two terms and many students use the terms interchangeably. Whether the Ph.D. is different depending on Crim versus CJ depends on the institution as much as on the terms as far as I have observed. 

 

3) It depends on what you're interested in within Criminology or Criminal Justice. My undergraduate justice capstone was "Bio-behavioral Criminology" and focused on, you guessed it, biological explanations for individuals committing crime. The course had psychology and biology students and the content covered topics such as: psychopathy, sociopathy, neurotransmitter in-balances, etc. This is a relatively new and interdisciplinary part of criminal justice research, and a psychology student would be extremely well suited to pursue this if you were to find programs capable of allowing you to pursue this (the right faculty who were cool with biobehavioral and had research experience with this).

 

It might be more foreign for you to pursue other areas within the discipline, but it is all social science, so the statistical procedures and methodologies shouldn't be a huge leap for you.  

[Ilspflouz]

Thanks so much for all the replies. TXInstrument, Congrats on your acceptances!!! If you want to talk feel free to PM me, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the differences between psych&CJ.

 

 

It is starting to sound more and more like CJ/Crim is the way to go for me. I found a report from the Association of Doctoral Programs in Criminal Justice and Criminology that quotes some employment figures for graduates. Can anyone comment on if they think this is a reputable organization/these numbers are trustworthy? It can be found here: http://www.adpccj.com/documents/2014survey.pdf. 

 

I have a meeting with the director of MSU's CJ program tomorrow, and your replies have all given me a lot of ideas for questions. So thanks again. :-)