How are Sociology PhD's doing in the job market?

[Kenjamito]

I was wondering how the Sociology PhD's are doing?  I am a law school grad and after doing the attorney thing for awhile I'm interested in being a professor and following up on a sociology accomplishment I had as an undergraduate.  I know going to law school right now is heavily cautioned and I'm wondering if the same is true of Sociology PhD programs?

[high_hopes]

It's not easy. Check out these websites for a while and you'll see way too many people fighting for too few jobs and getting upset when they don't end up with the position of their dreams.

 

http://www.socjobrumors.com/

http://socjobs.proboards.com/

[Coindinista]

It's true, right now it's a bit rough.  States are cutting funding, the slow pick up from the recession, etc--but demographically, the baby boomers are preparing to retire which should open up a significant amount of jobs in the future.  It'd be foolish to base your job prospects 7 years from now on the job market of today.

[Whatishistoryanyway]

It's true, right now it's a bit rough. States are cutting funding, the slow pick up from the recession, etc--but demographically, the baby boomers are preparing to retire which should open up a significant amount of jobs in the future. It'd be foolish to base your job prospects 7 years from now on the job market of today.

I hear this a lot, but in reality, it looks like many universities are just filling those positions with adjuncts, no? The glory days of tenure seem to be diminishing

[Coindinista]

Tenure is only diminishing now because it can--right now, what used to get you tenure might not even get you a job, just like UGs are half expected to publish before applying to grad schools.  When the boomers retire there will be a sudden flux requiring lucrative offers to attract the best qualified candidates.  The quickest way for academia to implode is to resort to adjuct dominant policies which would ultimately cut out their own source of revenue.  Bear in mind, students pay money to schools to ultimately work at schools--if working at schools is no longer an option, then they will likely not pay the money to schools.  Any pessimistic claim on the future of academia is likely espoused by embittered candidates. 

[Whatishistoryanyway]

Tenure is only diminishing now because it can--right now, what used to get you tenure might not even get you a job, just like UGs are half expected to publish before applying to grad schools. When the boomers retire there will be a sudden flux requiring lucrative offers to attract the best qualified candidates. The quickest way for academia to implode is to resort to adjuct dominant policies which would ultimately cut out their own source of revenue. Bear in mind, students pay money to schools to ultimately work at schools--if working at schools is no longer an option, then they will likely not pay the money to schools. Any pessimistic claim on the future of academia is likely espoused by embittered candidates.

You seem to be speculating though. Your prediction about academia concludes that it will find away to return to the glory days despite the current situation proving otherwise. We aren't fortune tellers, so I think it'd be a bad idea to pretend everything will be alright despite academia's current transformation. When the "baby boomers" retire, there will be plenty of good candidates willing to work for less because where else are they going to go? Sure you're going to have some good people land in great conditions, but so what? And I disagree with your last point completly. I'd be willing to bet that tons of current tenured faculty would be willing to give your a pessimistic view on the future of the field.

[FertMigMort]

It's true, right now it's a bit rough.  States are cutting funding, the slow pick up from the recession, etc--but demographically, the baby boomers are preparing to retire which should open up a significant amount of jobs in the future.  It'd be foolish to base your job prospects 7 years from now on the job market of today.

 

The problem is that people have been saying this for years. When are we going to wise up and admit that the landscape has changed in such a way that for the majority of graduate students, a TT job at a HRM is not in the future?

 

I was wondering how the Sociology PhD's are doing?  I am a law school grad and after doing the attorney thing for awhile I'm interested in being a professor and following up on a sociology accomplishment I had as an undergraduate.  I know going to law school right now is heavily cautioned and I'm wondering if the same is true of Sociology PhD programs?

I would caution against it unless you have a clear need for the degree in your future occupation. Most of the people I know who are doing well have left academia.

[Coindinista]

Whatisyourhistory--I don't believe you can accuse one of fortune-telling, then pose an alternate future.

 

If you guys truly think that your only hope upon PhD completion is hopping from adjunct to adjunct position, it would seem idiotic to continue pursuing a PhD--yet you are and do not seem to be idiots, which makes your argument unserious from a critical realism standpoint.

 

Perhaps you're right.  Good luck with the searchcoms.

[Whatishistoryanyway]

Whatisyourhistory--I don't believe you can accuse one of fortune-telling, then pose an alternate future.

 

If you guys truly think that your only hope upon PhD completion is hopping from adjunct to adjunct position, it would seem idiotic to continue pursuing a PhD--yet you are and do not seem to be idiots, which makes your argument unserious from a critical realism standpoint.

 

Perhaps you're right.  Good luck with the searchcoms.

 

 

At what point did I pose an alternative future? In addition, no one ever said that adjunct positions will be the only options. You can't deny the current condition of academia and if your only evidence of a better future is the fact that "baby boomers" are retiring, you have a long road ahead of you. Global capitalism is in crisis and has been for some time now.

 

Finally, what seems idiotic to you may seem like a dream to others. I don't think I'm the only one pursing a PhD for reasons beyond dreams of tenure.

[Kenjamito]

^ Yea, personally I was thinking about getting some sociology credentials so that I could move into an administrative role into one of those positions like "Vice Provost of Diversity" if I wasn't able to work as a professor.  It's sounding like no matter which way you slice it, going back to school isn't a guarantee in sociology just like law.

[try2seeme]

In recent years there has been a large amount of talk about tenured positions being cut and turned into adjunct positions.  Despite this, graduates are STILL getting tenure track jobs.  I am in a lower PhD program for Sociology ranked in the 70's and over the last two years, just about every graduate who was looking for a tenure-track position got one prior to graduating.  Yes, they will have to publish quite a bit, but that's part of the job. If it's really something you want, consider all factors, talk to professors in the field, talk to graduates on the market, and even people in the legal field who are also looking for a career change.  Don't pay too much attention to the pesimists of the interwebs though.  There are jobs out there for motivated individuals.  And at the very least, if you have your PhD, there are a number of private firms who would love to have a PhD on their team - public opinion/survey firms especially.  Having the legal background will be a plus.

Edited February 9, 2015 by try2seeme

[Pennywise]

In recent years there has been a large amount of talk about tenured positions being cut and turned into adjunct positions.  Despite this, graduates are STILL getting tenure track jobs.  I am in a lower PhD program for Sociology ranked in the 70's and over the last two years, just about every graduate who was looking for a tenure-track position got one prior to graduating.  Yes, they will have to publish quite a bit, but that's part of the job. If it's really something you want, consider all factors, talk to professors in the field, talk to graduates on the market, and even people in the legal field who are also looking for a career change.  Don't pay too much attention to the pesimists of the interwebs though.  There are jobs out there for motivated individuals.  And at the very least, if you have your PhD, there are a number of private firms who would love to have a PhD on their team - public opinion/survey firms especially.  Having the legal background will be a plus.

The only thing I would add to the above is to clarify that was IS out of reach for 99% of graduates of lower-ranked programs is a TT job at a top-10 research institution, at least right after grad school. The exceptions prove the rule, such as the guy who writes about pigeons who went to Drexel and CUNY, then right after his post-doc at Harvard landed a TT job at NYU -- he was able to network in NYC and get published in tippy top soc journals, which overcame his "disadvantage." Plus CUNY, while not top ranked, is #28 (NYU #16), and perhaps more importantly part of a consortium with top ranked schools, so I am guessing he might have gotten to know some relevant faculty at NYU (though I don't know that for sure). And the Harvard post-doc certainly seems to have burnished his pedigree.

But the reason we know his story (it has been shared to me, at least, a couple times) is that it is so unusual, since in general, that rarely happens for CUNY/Drexel grads. Though as someone who is almost definitely not going to land at a top 20 program I would really like to be wrong, so if you think I am then please correct me (I will even graciously accept anecdotal evidence lol).

Edited February 9, 2015 by grrlfriend

[try2seeme]

@grrlfriend - No you are correct.  If you do not come out of a top program in your discipline, you will more than likely not be teaching in a top program.  As you said, there are exceptions to the rule, but it is rare.  More than likely you will be teaching/working at a University that is of the same rank or below the one you graduated from.  That's still not a terrible gig though....a 9-month salary for a Mid-west state University would be about 55,000-60,000 and go up to 70,000 in 5 years.  While you might say that's not great money return....it's not the worst and you get more say in your schedule than someone who works 9-5.  Not to mention there is less pressure at many "lower-tier" schools than ones in the top 10.  There is very high pressure at Research 1 institutions. 

[rising_star]

^ Yea, personally I was thinking about getting some sociology credentials so that I could move into an administrative role into one of those positions like "Vice Provost of Diversity" if I wasn't able to work as a professor.  It's sounding like no matter which way you slice it, going back to school isn't a guarantee in sociology just like law.

Kenjamito, take a look at the qualifications for a role like that. There are several currently advertised on higheredjobs. While many require the PhD, they're also interested in a candidate having experience in student affairs, management experience, and experience with diversity programming. So just having a sociology PhD, even if you focus on diversity in your research, may not make you qualified for such positions, at least not starting off. People that go that route tend to enter the field with a master's (in higher ed or student affairs or college student personnel), work for a few years, then return to school for a PhD. 

 

An example would be this ad at Denison for a Vice Provost. "Minimum Qualifications: *Doctoral degree or equivalent terminal degree in a relevant discipline. *Minimum of 8 years experience in higher education or 5 years experience in developing, implementing, and evaluating diversity programs. *Comprehensive knowledge of the broad range of diversity issues in higher education, including but not limited to faculty recruitment, retention, and development issue" Those aren't things you're necessarily going to get in a PhD program without gaining additional experience. 

[asheleeyang]

Just out of curiosity - what do people mean when you guys talk about "ranking"? It seems to me that you are looking at the general sociology department ranking. However, there are also people who believe that a specific subfield ranking is much more meaningful than the general department ranking. For example, a UC Irvine graduate specializing in Asian immigration would be (at least) as competitive as a UNC graduate doing the same thing? 

[Pennywise]

Socjobrumors is a horrifying, horrifying site.

[uselesstheory]

Socjobrumors is a horrifying, horrifying site.

I stumbled onto that site once and swore to never go back. Horrifying is a perfect word.