Applying to PhD before masters vs. applying after masters

[MyDogHasAPhD]

Hey guys,

 

So I am pretty much all but rejected to all of the PhD programs I applied to this year. After a lot of debate and opinions from professors and friends (thanks grad cafe!), I have decided that pursuing a Masters may be a pretty solid route for my specific situation. 

 

Before I make a definite decision, I was wondering how much of a difference it truly makes in your ability to gain acceptance into a PhD program. For those of you who applied to PhD programs prior to attending a Masters program, did you see a significant difference in the amount of interview invites and acceptances when applying again with your Masters?

 

Thanks!

[Much Anxious Very Waiting]

I don't have my masters, so I can't say from personal experience. But I can tell you what one of my faculty members told me.

 

She's a social psychologist and we work at a school of management. She told me that the largest reason that she accepted one of her current grad students (PhD program) is because she already had her masters. Two reasons - She got her masters from the same school the faculty member got her PhD from - thus she knows her education is solid. The other - the faculty member doesn't have to worry about teaching the student theory - this was largely done in her Masters program. Now the faculty member can focus on research with her student.

 

Also, this student couldn't get into any PhD programs that she wanted before the masters.

 

I hope that helps maybe even a little. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by Much Anxious Very Waiting

[MyDogHasAPhD]

I don't have my masters, so I can't say from personal experience. But I can tell you what one of my faculty members told me.

She's a social psychologist and we work at a school of management. She told me that the largest reason that she accepted one of her current grad students (PhD program) is because she already had her masters. Two reasons - She got her masters from the same school the faculty member got her PhD from - thus she knows her education is solid. The other - the faculty member doesn't have to worry about teaching the student theory - this was largely done in her Masters program. Now the faculty member can focus on research with her student.

Also, this student couldn't get into any PhD programs that she wanted before the masters.

I hope that helps maybe even a little.

Thank you! It does help

[salparadise]

Absolutely. No way I could have gotten the interviews (and offers) I did without having done my master's first. It matters how much you did in undergrad, and I just did not hit my groove during those years. So I did my master's at a school which offers both research and clinical experiences, and I had a really successful application season with top name programs.

 

(Correlation =/= causation???)

[suzieq]

I didn't apply for PhD programs before getting my master's, but for me, I believe it was a huge boost to my application. I was pretty sure I didn't have the credentials to get into a great PhD program two years ago. One reason was that my undergrad research was superficial (data collection without much involvement in anything else). Another was that I had ideas about what I wanted to research, but I knew I needed to learn more about those topics, narrow it down, and get more specific. In my experience, it's been really valuable to have planned and conducted my own research, not just for the stuff that's been added to my CV but also because I got really specific in my research interests, I know the literature better now, and I know that I 100% love doing research.

 

If you think you have work to do in those areas (or if you just need to get some publications), then a master's might be a good route. If you pursue a master's, just make sure that research is a big component of what you'll be doing. I did coursework and research, but I was able to spend most of my time on research, and that boosted my PhD application.

[juilletmercredi]

I think it depends on the program and the professors there.  I think if you ask people who didn't get in anywhere when they applied before the master's and then got into programs after they did do the master's, you are automatically getting a biased sample.  FWIW, I also did not think I had the credentials to get into a great PhD program straight out of undergrad; I was proved wrong when I applied to just one, and got into it.  My advisers there told me that they were glad I didn't apply more widely because they believe I would've been competitive elsewhere.

 

My own psychology program had a mix of people who had a master's and who didn't.  The majority of students did not have a master's degree.  I get the sense that's the trend at most of the comparable programs in my subfield - most students don't have a master's before they matriculate in the PhD program.  Some do.

 

Based on your other threads, you have a 3.91 GPA from undergrad in psychology.  Your ability to do coursework and handle graduate-level coursework in psychology is not in question, so I don't think you need to do an MA in psychology, personally. I think it's odd that a professor would recommend an MA in experimental psych to show that you could perform in quantitative courses rather than just getting your quant GRE score up.  Undergraduate GPA is a far better predictor of performance in coursework than the GRE (and the quant GRE is all basic math anyway, so I wouldn't really take that as a sign of whether a student could function in advanced stats classes...but that's just me).

 

Part of the reason might be that most of your research experience is through independent studies and honors thesis work rather than supervised research assistance of a professor.  Maybe you need more of that. I think that you need to raise your quant GRE score to a good solid 75th-80th percentile or higher. In the interim time, volunteer at a lab and/or work as a research coordinator.  If you could get a job as a lab manager and take some graduate level psychology courses for free, that would be great.  If you got into a free, funded MA program, that could be beneficial because you could get the research assistant experience and the grad classes for free, but I don't think you should borrow for an MA in psychology.

 

You could've also just had an unlucky year.  Social/community is competitive and 6 programs isn't a whole lot.  It's not uncommon for even the most qualified social applicants to take 2 rounds.

[Rose1128]

I think it really depends on the program and individual professor you are applying to. I applied to clinical programs pre- and post- masters, did not get in either time (presumed at this point this year). I think that although a masters is helpful, my impression is that research experience is really the biggest piece (at least for clinical). Unfortunately, while completing my masters I did not have the opportunity to make the most of the research opportunities provided to me because I was also working full time in a clinical position in order to support myself (gotta pay the rent!). So as long as you make your masters worth it, it can be a great thing! But if you're just doing it to write a degree on your CV, it's probably not going to be helpful.

 

And just for reference, I applied this year after graduating with my masters in clinical psych in December. No interviews I have 3.85 masters  GPA, 152 V 162 Q GRE, 3+ yrs inpatient psych clinical experience at a top hospital in the US, 1 yr undergrad research experience and .5 yr post grad research experience. No publications, 1 poster (This is where I'm lacking) 

[neural-plasticity]

I applied to 3 clinical programs straight from undergrad and got 1 on-site interview and 1 phone interview. Both led to rejections, so it seemed like a master's was the next logical step. This time around, I applied to 9 schools and received 4 interviews, 2 acceptances, and 2 high wait lists (I accepted another offer before finding out what happened with the other wait lists). I think getting my masters first really helped me tone in on my specific research interests, which definitely helped with interviewing this year. I was definitely better prepared this time around.