Negotiating Offers

[thepriorwalter]

If you have more than one offer, are you negotiating it? How? Looking to do less teaching, hoping for more money, asking for matching funds from another offer? Explicitly negotiating? Just mentioning other funds to the DGS?

If you've negotiated in the past (successfully or not, because sometimes it's because the department doesn't have more money to give), how did you do it and what do you recommend other hopeful negotiators know going into the process?

I'm interested in doing this but terrified (engrained, ridiculous attitudes about discussing money, engrained attitudes about gender, and general anxiety), so I'm trying to collect as much information on the process as possible before I begin.

(I know this has been discussed a few times on gradcafe (particularly in other forums), but I thought it was relevant to bring it up on the Literature board in particular, not only because I find many of the discussions on the other boards off putting, but also because lit can be its own animal in many ways and I was hoping for a recent conversation.)

Edited February 15, 2015 by thepriorwalter

[ComeBackZinc]

A couple things I can say for sure is that a) people have done it successfully in the past, always of course by being extremely polite, and that the ability to negotiate varies wildly by institution and department. In a lot of schools, DGS's have no ability to influence a grad student stipend; in some, they have some wiggle room. Go carefully, but it can and does happen.

[kurayamino]

In my case I mentioned to the directors at both of my admitted schools that I was considering another offer without mentioning the amount. They replied that they had nominated me for additional funds and gave me an idea of what those funds could look like. I also asked outright about relocation reimbursements and travel reimbursement for the visiting week. I think I'd have a little more wiggle room if my schools were in the same tier, but I will say that if you have two acceptances that you are in a position of power and to use that to your advantage. If you're worried about money in any way, make it clear to them. If they can't offer you more money they will most likely tell you what other students have done like graderships, additional summer funding, competitive scholarships, and so forth.

[Ramus]

thepriorwalter, I stumbled into the money question when speaking on the phone with the DGS at Maryland. I rather awkwardly mentioned trying to attend Maryland's open house and OSU's open house in one large trip, and my mentioning the other offer prompted him to acknowledge that there is some wiggle room with the funding. I'd guess that this would be the easiest way to broach the subject in most cases.

 

Now, I do have one tidbit regarding Michigan (btw, congrats on getting in!). I have a friend in his first year in the joint English/GWS program there, and he told me the English department is very flexible about funding. In his case, he, being an awkward turtle like me, mentioned to the DGS that he was "worried about the cost of living in Ann Arbor." He wasn't trying to squeeze them for money, but that little aside landed him several more thousand dollars (including a summer fellowship). So while I realize not all programs are this loose with the pursestrings, I say you definitely should hit up UMich for extra $$.

[empress-marmot]

I am certainly going to try negotiating on a campus visit in a few weeks. Two of my acceptances come from schools ranked two places apart, but one is offering me a (much) higher stipend and (many) more perks. 

 

Whenever I chat with the DGS/program director/someone with power, I'm planning to mention "Yes, School X also accepted me. I would like to attend Your University, because I think (program fit/research interests/close to family). However, School X is offering me a $$$$$ a year and (perks)." 

 

I suppose I would let them take it from there? I have nothing to lose if they say no--there's no way I can attend this school without a higher stipend, though I'm definitely not going to be that blunt. 

 

If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. I'm terrified about this sort of conversation, but I have to have it. 

[ProfLorax]

I tried to negotiate but failed-- it was my fault. I mentioned other offers and asked a question about my funding package, but the DGS (who is no longer the DGS as Maryland; they swap out every few years) either didn't catch my hint or ignored it. If I could go back, I would have the conversation in person. And since the DGS didn't take the bait, I wish I had followed up with a direct question.

 

This is what I said: "I notice that my funding decreases in Year 4 and 5 even though I will achieve candidacy during Year 3." And I wish I had followed up with this: "Can you increase my Year 4 and 5 funding to match the earlier three years?"

[__________________________]

Yeah this is awkward.  It's hard to tell how flexible things can be.  So far I've gotten in to two schools of pretty different ranks, and very different funding packages and cities (U Chicago and OSU).  The funding from Chicago is generous (good at OSU, too!  very different cities though), but I also get an impression of inflexibility: they mention no increases over the course of my study (which is fine -- it's a solid stipend) and I already know that every admitted student to their Ph.D. program gets the same package (in order to insure everyone gets funded and to reduce competitive tensions between students).  As awesome as OSU's program is, I feel like having an acceptance there wouldn't translate to any leverage at a place like U of C when it comes to funding, even though Chicago's been at me pretty vigorously since I got accepted.

 

I'm thinking of waiting until the Open House at the end of the month to ask about getting some funding for a summer language course, after talking to a couple graduate students about their experience with it.  

 

Is anyone else worried about money issues over the summer before starting a program?  In a perfect world, I'd love to just get a summer language course paid for so I could feel more ready to delve into my studies again, but I'm also leaving a steady school-year job (as an HS teacher) and apartment in the town I'm living in now to pack up and move somewhere else in early August (and if I go to Chicago, school wouldn't start until mid to late September, I think).  Is it a thing for schools to help compensate for moving expenses?  Is that a ridiculous thing to ask for?  My stipend will be  more than adequate once it starts coming in, but the idea of looking at a couple months of unemployment with no savings AND having to move into a new apartment in a new town AND to have to start paying back my B.A. loans over the summer while not having a job (my grace period will end a couple months before starting a new program) is a little terrifying for me right now.  I'm no stranger to scraping by financially and would obviously find a way to make it work (especially if I move to a big city like Chicago, where I could hustle some temp jobs canvassing or something), but still...

[heliogabalus]

Something to keep in mind when negotiating funding: It is not the professor's money; you are not taking anything away from them if you get x-amount of dollars more. It doesn't make any sense to be coy--just say, "Hi, I would love to come to Illinois, and would in a second, if Minnesota weren't offering me $3000 more. Is the funding package there at Illinois set in stone at this point, or is there any flexibility there?" Also, keep in mind that you're going to be teaching classes (usually the ones the profs don't want to teach) and grading papers (which no professor yearns to do), but you will probably be making 1/2 of what the cleaning staff makes. Get as much as you can.

Edited February 15, 2015 by heliogabalus

[1Q84]

Something to keep in mind when negotiating funding: It is not the professor's money; you are not taking anything away from them if you get x-amount of dollars more. It doesn't make any sense to be coy--just say, "Hi, I would love to come to Illinois, and would in a second, if Minnesota weren't offering me $3000 more. Is the funding package there at Illinois set in stone at this point, or is there any flexibility there?" Also, keep in mind that you're going to be teaching classes (usually the ones the profs don't want to teach) and grading papers (which no professor yearns to do), but you will probably be making 1/2 of what the cleaning staff makes. Get as much as you can.

 

 

A good reminder. However, my big fear (that is, if and when I will be in the position to negotiate) is that I come off as crass or grasping. I'm reminded that I will be working with these people for the next 5-6 years, so I don't want to make a bad first impression by pushing money matters too far.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

[echo449]

I mean, you're giving up a lot of income and are providing labor, in most places, for well below the rate of pay for a normal instructor. It may feel crass, but remember that politeness and a good working environment depend upon a liveable wage.

[heliogabalus]

Also keep in mind that a lot of people don't finish their PhDs--often because they're tired of living on such low salaries. Professors usually don't make tons of money either, so every one I've ever known has been acutely aware of the role money plays in accepting a job/grad school offer. As long as you're polite and honest, nobody is going to think you're a jerk.

[toasterazzi]

I didn't really do any negotiating (though I did somewhat generally talk to one of my acceptances about the fact that one of the reasons I probably would end up somewhere was due to a better funding package).

 

I mostly just wanted to chime in here and say that if anybody has any questions about funding at OSU/affordability of Columbus/etc., feel free to drop me a line

[lyonessrampant]

I definitely encourage people to negotiate.  Even if the answer is no, that's the worst case scenario.  As long as you're polite, no one is going to be offended.  It's also expected that you negotiate somewhat if you get a job offer, and that is true across many fields.  I recommend looking at Linda Babcock's Women Don't Ask: Negotiation and the Gender Divide.  As the title indicates, if obviously focuses on women's negotiating experiences, but it has a lot of good information for anyone who finds negotiating difficult.  

 

While programs may find it difficult or impossible to reduce your teaching obligations or increase your funding in years beyond the first (budgets generally change yearly so them increasing your total package can cause future budgetary problems), start with the big things and work down to things like top-off funds, relocation expenses (many programs don't cover this, though some do and asking is certainly not crass), book funds, increased travel funds, and assistance with language classes.  

 

Be polite and respectful and there won't be a problem.  Lots of people negotiate, so it certainly won't seem out of place.

[allplaideverything]

I very casually mentioned to a DGS at Institution A (on the phone) that I was really excited about the possibility of studying there, and "looking forward to learning more about the program as I weigh this offer against another"--he doesn't yet have clarity about the budget for next year, but seemed to suggest that in March he'd know more about trying to get me more funding.

 

Question: Is it typical / responsible / ethical to give more specific details about other offers to your institutions? Aka can I / should I tell Davis that my other offer is from Riverside and they've offered me a larger fellowship?

[heliogabalus]

Why wouldn't you?

[LCB]

I very casually mentioned to a DGS at Institution A (on the phone) that I was really excited about the possibility of studying there, and "looking forward to learning more about the program as I weigh this offer against another"--he doesn't yet have clarity about the budget for next year, but seemed to suggest that in March he'd know more about trying to get me more funding.

 

Question: Is it typical / responsible / ethical to give more specific details about other offers to your institutions? Aka can I / should I tell Davis that my other offer is from Riverside and they've offered me a larger fellowship?

It's totally okay to ask - just make sure that if you do, you're framing it in a way that makes it clear that you may not necessarily come there even if they do produce the money.

 

The advice I got from a former DGS at my school was to choose the school you'd most like to go to to negotiate with and stick with them first. When DGS's put time/effort/resources into finding grad students that extra money/time off/etc., you should consider if you'd actually take it. The posters who suggested saying, "hey, I'd come to X school in a heartbeat if you could match this stipend" are right - but make sure that if you frame it like that, if the DGS produces the money, you're prepared to accept. Otherwise, that phrasing is really misleading. (Which is why you might consider negotiating with one university and then moving on to the other if they are unable to do anything).

[thepriorwalter]

Now, I do have one tidbit regarding Michigan (btw, congrats on getting in!). I have a friend in his first year in the joint English/GWS program there, and he told me the English department is very flexible about funding. In his case, he, being an awkward turtle like me, mentioned to the DGS that he was "worried about the cost of living in Ann Arbor." He wasn't trying to squeeze them for money, but that little aside landed him several more thousand dollars (including a summer fellowship). So while I realize not all programs are this loose with the pursestrings, I say you definitely should hit up UMich for extra $$.

 

Very interesting about Michigan. Thanks, Ramus! Cost of living in Ann Arbor is way higher than I realized -- it startled me. It's lower everywhere else I got in (I think I assumed because it's mostly a college town that it would be lower). 

 

Really appreciate the advice to primarily negotiate with the school you are most interested in, so that the DGS doesn't waste their time and effort on finding you more funding (if possible) that you don't plan to take. 

[andalus]

Somewhat of a negotiation question: I got an offer from one of my top choices, and my advisor advised me to contact my other top choice immediately, before acceptances came out, I'm guessing to see if they'll come up with a better offer. Has anyone had any experience with this? 

[echo449]

I've never heard of anyone doing it, but I imagine that it won't cause any problems so long as you phrase it graciously and orient yr query around practical concerns (e.g., timing visits, promptly responding to other offers, etc.) and not, "Yale let me in, so what does that mean to you, PRINCETON?!?!?!?!?!" 

Edited February 16, 2015 by echo449

[andalus]

I was planning on saying precisely that. Then dropping the mic (or phone, whatever).

[echo449]

*instant rejection*

[thepriorwalter]

Somewhat of a negotiation question: I got an offer from one of my top choices, and my advisor advised me to contact my other top choice immediately, before acceptances came out, I'm guessing to see if they'll come up with a better offer. Has anyone had any experience with this? 

 

I think I am unclear on why the suggestion is to do this before acceptances/decisions come out. 

[ktm9bar]

Only heard one acceptance so far, but will be chatting with DGS tomorrow. Is there any risk in saying "I'm weighing your offer with another offer. Does the department have any flexibility in funding?" Or is the ghost offer risking potentially being exposed for a fraud?!?

[echo449]

I have been asked for paperwork to verify for the program I'm negotiating with. If you are asked for verification, and you cannot provide it, you are in a very awkward position.

[Pol4ris]

Only heard one acceptance so far, but will be chatting with DGS tomorrow. Is there any risk in saying "I'm weighing your offer with another offer. Does the department have any flexibility in funding?" Or is the ghost offer risking potentially being exposed for a fraud?!?

On one hand I think it's a smart gamble. On the other, academia is a small, incestuous world and if you were pressed to reveal this other school it could be one that the DGS has close connections to. Any chance you could wait on the negotiation bit to see if you get an actual second offer? Conversely, maybe your way of scoring more $ is to ask about funds for relocation, summer stipends, etc.? I think any DGS would prefer you be upfront regarding your financial needs than to be played against a ghost offer. And if it did blow up and you still attended, you don't want a bad reputation going in. Just my opinion.