TXInstrument11 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 If it perhaps comforts you, there was an article I heard about a year or two ago (I can't source it at the moment, if I can find it I will), that said the job market is supposed to be better in the next 10 years or so due to the baby boomer generation retiring all at once. Of course this is just a prediction, I can't remember how valid the statistics were, but it might be something to think about. It might also make you feel better that everyone here is in the same boat. Luckily in our field, unlike philosophy which is my other major, there is a sense of solidarity. Unlike law school or medical school or some graduate fields, we are not cutting throats to get where we are. Graduate applicants and students are willing to help each other out with advice at all times. If you are able to remove your doubts (or at least mostly remove), I wish you the very best of luck. I have the same concerns that you do, but this is the field I want and I'm just going to have to make it work one way or another. It might sound naive, but to me its determination. Or best case scenario your spouse will make a ton of money and then you can just do research for the hell of it! Yeah, there is some hope the Baby Boomers will be retiring soon. Ultimately, I think more gov funding for research will be the kicker though, so I am definitely crossing my fingers for that. And lol, maybe I could find an academic "sugar daddy" of sorts to keep me going. I apologize for getting testy with you. I tend to skew negative when trying to interpret people's intentions online.
TenaciousBushLeaper Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Just got my official "note" from Oregon today. I'm not exactly surprised since I didn't interview, but the 2% admissions rate simply blew me away. It's not like I didn't know acceptance rates were low going in approx 5% being the most common number I'd seen out of the social programs I picked based on research fit, but it's just the regularity of seeing these numbers across all kinds of institutions that scares me. Simply too many people are running after the same jobs in this field. These numbers are unhealthy and I doubt the situation improves much post-grad in the academic job market. Going four more years making <$20K per year only to end up in a community college adjunct job at the end just doesn't seem worth it to me. I'm not even excited about my acceptance to Illinois anymore. This whole process seems like one long joke on how big an idiot I am for majoring in psychology. I'm honestly considering just walking away right now - better make it 4 years of undergrad down the drain than 8-10. DISCLAIMER: (because apparently, it's needed). I am not after the lifestyle of the rich and famous! And I did not apply to schools based on rank. I hope this can help you, Here's my take on your situation, if I were you (assuming you would not rather do anything else career wise with your life) I'd go into it like a religious nut who will take nothing less than the literal word of the bible. So, odds are you won't make it into academia as a tenured professor, odds are you'll be underemployed. But maybe that's part of the formula for getting a tenured track position in academia? (of course there are a bunch of other factors). I don't mean to give off the "everything will work out" mentality because as I've previously said, everything is statistically likely to not work out as you'd like. If you really don't know what else you'd like to do with your career then why not take the chance? Especially considering you've been accepted into UIUC (which I think is a pretty good school). My other advice is, if you'd be willing to take that chance then immediately get rid of all your doubts and concerns, yes this is naive but those type of thoughts will most likely only hinder your progress and success as an academic, towards your academic goals. (unless you're one of those people who can turn those concerns into an extreme form of motivation) I've spoken to a few professors in tenured track positions at large research universities about job prospects as an academic. They all seemed to agree that while yes this may be a concern it's best to put those concerns away and better use your time in being the best at what you do, because while you may be concerned about your job prospects at this very moment, there is someone else, with the same goals who's working his/her ass off right now, accomplishing something that will get him/her closer to those goals. when and nixy 2
TXInstrument11 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 I may be projecting, but TX's concerns might be more along the lines of this: http://adjunctaction.org/blog/2014/11/15/adjunct-action-report-investigates-faculty-working-conditions-advocates-for-federal-labor-protections-and-accountability-from-employers/or this http://www.npr.org/2014/02/03/268427156/part-time-professors-demand-higher-pay-will-colleges-listen Being an adult with a 'normal' life is hard if your job won't even give you healthcare benefits, and one cannot really raise a family (at least on the east coast) off of 30k/year :/ :/ Yes, thank you. Those are my concerns. Every day, I give up a little more hope on the prospect of being able to raise a family, have a normal life, AND have a highly successful career in academia. If push comes to shove, I will always choose the latter, but any remaining doubt/regret over this is dying a very slow death, it seems.
TheMercySeat Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Yes, thank you. Those are my concerns. Every day, I give up a little more hope on the prospect of being able to raise a family, have a normal life, AND have a highly successful career in academia. If push comes to shove, I will always choose the latter, but any remaining doubt/regret over this is dying a very slow death, it seems. With a PhD.... it's easier to apply for citizenship in other countries. Other countries might not treat their professors like cheap labor. Alternatively, I encourage you to explore some alt-ac gigs-- you can always be an adjunct while being a FT research scientist of awesomeness
TXInstrument11 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 I hope this can help you, Here's my take on your situation, if I were you (assuming you would not rather do anything else career wise with your life) I'd go into it like a religious nut who will take nothing less than the literal word of the bible. So, odds are you won't make it into academia as a tenured professor, odds are you'll be underemployed. But maybe that's part of the formula for getting a tenured track position in academia? (of course there are a bunch of other factors). I don't mean to give off the "everything will work out" mentality because as I've previously said, everything is statistically likely to not work out as you'd like. If you really don't know what else you'd like to do with your career then why not take the chance? Especially considering you've been accepted into UIUC (which I think is a pretty good school). My other advice is, if you'd be willing to take that chance then immediately get rid of all your doubts and concerns, yes this is naive but those type of thoughts will most likely only hinder your progress and success as an academic, towards your academic goals. (unless you're one of those people who can turn those concerns into an extreme form of motivation) I've spoken to a few professors in tenured track positions at large research universities about job prospects as an academic. They all seemed to agree that while yes this may be a concern it's best to put those concerns away and better use your time in being the best at what you do, because while you may be concerned about your job prospects at this very moment, there is someone else, with the same goals who's working his/her ass off right now, accomplishing something that will get him/her closer to those goals. Hm. Yes, this is the only way this will work. When thinking about this before, I've always come to the conclusion that this is something I will have to dedicate 100% to, no compromises. Some days I am more willing to accept that eventual reality than others. I am the kind of person who is helped (not mentally or emotionally, mind you) by a focus on the risks and the negatives. A kind of chronically-successful pessimist if there ever was one, I remain happy by setting my expectations rather low. Unfortunately, even after all the bitter truth I read online before applying, I think I set that bar a bit higher than was warranted this time.
TXInstrument11 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 Here's a little anecdote: my cover story is "I want to be a professor! But I understand that those positions are not as plentiful, so I am also willing to consider working in an applied setting, as well." One professor argued the point with me, even though the eradication of TT professorships is well documented in Nature and other reputable sources. It was quite the Old Economy Steve moment (http://www.buzzfeed.com/hunterschwarz/old-economy-steve-is-a-new-meme-that-will-enrage-all-millenn#.pqDD2gLpp) I love Old Economy Steve! Favorites: TheMercySeat 1
spunky Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 More than anything, I really, really regret that I have not been grooming myself for a MS in data science or something more useful... I also really regret not looking into data science. I'm not even sure how I would go about grooming myself for it now though. what....what is this strange feeling? COMPETITION? when, TenaciousBushLeaper, mb712 and 1 other 4
mb712 Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 With a PhD.... it's easier to apply for citizenship in other countries. Other countries might not treat their professors like cheap labor. Alternatively, I encourage you to explore some alt-ac gigs-- you can always be an adjunct while being a FT research scientist of awesomeness I've been eyeing a couple countries who tend to only let Americans move there if they have Ph.D.s (or some sort of highly specialized uncommon skill). Good thing to bring up.
TXInstrument11 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 what....what is this strange feeling? COMPETITION? Take this implied upvote since I reached the stupid quota. I'm totally stealing the superwoman pic too, while I'm at it. TheMercySeat 1
TXInstrument11 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 I've been eyeing a couple countries who tend to only let Americans move there if they have Ph.D.s (or some sort of highly specialized uncommon skill). Good thing to bring up. I think Australia might be on that list. Are the ones who only let you in if you have a specific job lined up though? TheMercySeat 1
PsychandPhilo Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Yeah, there is some hope the Baby Boomers will be retiring soon. Ultimately, I think more gov funding for research will be the kicker though, so I am definitely crossing my fingers for that. And lol, maybe I could find an academic "sugar daddy" of sorts to keep me going. I apologize for getting testy with you. I tend to skew negative when trying to interpret people's intentions online. No problem. I realized that my post might not come off exactly the way I intended, I only meant to help. As I said, we're all in the same boat. A boat that we know is prone to sink at any moment but is our only chance to the mystical land of tenure track position. Pessimism is good to an extent, keeps us grounded and forces us to self-improve. But too much pessimism and we forget why we took this path in the first place. Good luck with whatever you decide to choose, and take comfort knowing you at least got into a respectable program. I'm still waiting for my first acceptance. I have reasonably high hopes about one of my PhD interviews but we shall see...
TheMercySeat Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 I think Australia might be on that list. Are the ones who only let you in if you have a specific job lined up though? STOP LOOKING INTO MY SOUL!!!! Was looking at this the other day: http://www.workpermit.com/australia/point_calculator.htm
tha1ne Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Maybe that's the case. Perhaps they made a beeline to post before reading the description, but I assumed that they were speaking to me because of their first sentence - in which they said that I was "looking at this the wrong way". I also think the "look good on the office wall" motive would be a better fit for Ivies, even though Oregon is very good in psychology. To answer your question: it totally is a crapshoot (ex. Northeastern is an R2 school but has a dismal 2.6% acceptance rate (albeit a good R2 school)), and I understand the concern, BUT there are other jobs you can get if you decide to pursue a PhD in social psych. A lot of social psych people are moving into business (and other industries) now. Here, the jobs are more plentiful, the wages are more comfortable, and if you join the faculty of a business school, you still get to conduct your own research! My motto is, if you find something you really love doing, you'll find a way to make it work. Obviously you should be smart about it and use all the resources available to you, but I believe the things you really love are also things worth pursuing.
VulpesZerda Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 I think that's the thing... most PhD programs want to train future professors, and not research scientists/applied researchers :/ I applied to as many Applied Social programs as I could, hoping that they would leave that door to government/industry open. I'll probably need a post doc regardless!
psych face Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Spare me. I would not have even considered an academic career in psychology if I were after "money" or "prestige". Living comfortably and actually being able to do a job that I'm trained for (not endlessly adjuncting) is a perfectly reasonable thing to desire. I also paid very little heed to rank. I did not even check the NRC rankings until after I applied this cycle and joined this site. I also did not look at rank. I looked at specific people and departments that had the people. I looked for pockets of experts in my field of interest. And those were all over the rankings. And from what I can tell, they all had shit acceptance rates this year. Funding is just shit right now. I may be projecting, but TX's concerns might be more along the lines of this: http://adjunctaction.org/blog/2014/11/15/adjunct-action-report-investigates-faculty-working-conditions-advocates-for-federal-labor-protections-and-accountability-from-employers/or this http://www.npr.org/2014/02/03/268427156/part-time-professors-demand-higher-pay-will-colleges-listen Being an adult with a 'normal' life is hard if your job won't even give you healthcare benefits, and one cannot really raise a family (at least on the east coast) off of 30k/year :/ :/ I know some adjuncts at my school are actually organizing to formalize complaints. I wish them luck, but I'm afraid that is all they are going to get. Hm. Yes, this is the only way this will work. When thinking about this before, I've always come to the conclusion that this is something I will have to dedicate 100% to, no compromises. Some days I am more willing to accept that eventual reality than others. I am the kind of person who is helped (not mentally or emotionally, mind you) by a focus on the risks and the negatives. A kind of chronically-successful pessimist if there ever was one, I remain happy by setting my expectations rather low. Unfortunately, even after all the bitter truth I read online before applying, I think I set that bar a bit higher than was warranted this time. Ditto on all of that. I feel dumb actually. A lot of things about this process are just ringing with dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.
angeladl6007 Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) I had the same realization last year when I applied to PhD programs in Social Psychology and did not end up getting into any program. Trying to quickly pull myself together, I applied to many lab manager positions in order to get more research experience. I was completely shocked when I was told, by multiple labs, that they would prefer someone with a computer science background. That concept kind of makes me laugh because my boyfriend is a computer engineer and his job prospects and earning potential are so phenomenal that I don't know WHY someone with a computer science background would even look at those jobs. Anyway, it was really shocking because that is probably the only job I can think of that should be looking specifically for people with a bachelors in Psychology and we are still worthless to them. What a waste of four years! I could have had a completely different major and been in a better position going to a career IN PSYCHOLOGY. I ended up completely re-evaluating my goals and decided to forget about social psychology because, as you said, the job pool isn't even worth it. Edited February 20, 2015 by angeladl6007 when, homonculus, TXInstrument11 and 6 others 6 3
TheMercySeat Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 I had the same realization last year when I applied to PhD programs in Social Psychology and did not end up getting into any program. Trying to quickly pull myself together, I applied to many lab manager positions in order to get more research experience. I was completely shocked when I was told, by multiple labs, that they would prefer someone with a computer science background. That concept kind of makes me laugh because my boyfriend is a computer engineer and his job prospects and earning potential are so phenomenal that I don't know WHY someone with a computer science background would even look at those jobs. Anyway, it was really shocking because that is probably the only job I can think of that should be looking specifically for people with a bachelors in Psychology and we are still worthless to them. What a waste of four years! I could have had a completely different major and been in a better position going to a career IN PSYCHOLOGY. I ended up completely re-evaluating my goals and decided to forget about social psychology because, as you said, the job pool isn't even worth it. Lots of people are looking into my soul right now. "Wtf?! Entry level, BA psych... Needs to know R, stata, c++, python, and how to operate a fMRI?!" Personally, my game plan is to negotiate-- aggressively-- for permission to take advanced stat and CS classes, and to learn as many stat programs (in coursework or otherwise) as possible. Those skills aren't worthless outside of the ivory towers
.letmeinplz// Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) ..., that they would prefer someone with a computer science background. That concept kind of makes me laugh because my boyfriend is a computer engineer and his job prospects and earning potential are so phenomenal that I don't know WHY someone with a computer science background would even look at those jobs. ... My girlfriend has her BSCS but also has a certificate in psychology she got while doing her BS because she is interested in psychology, so for people like her I could see looking at positions like that. Edited February 20, 2015 by <ian> angeladl6007 1
angeladl6007 Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 My girlfriend has her BSCS but also has a certificate in psychology she got while doing her BS because she is interested in psychology, so for people like her I could see looking at positions like that. I think a lot of us on this thread wish we had known that was the better option before picking a major in psychology. Ah regrets.. PsychandPhilo and spunky 1 1
TXInstrument11 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 I had the same realization last year when I applied to PhD programs in Social Psychology and did not end up getting into any program. Trying to quickly pull myself together, I applied to many lab manager positions in order to get more research experience. I was completely shocked when I was told, by multiple labs, that they would prefer someone with a computer science background. That concept kind of makes me laugh because my boyfriend is a computer engineer and his job prospects and earning potential are so phenomenal that I don't know WHY someone with a computer science background would even look at those jobs. Anyway, it was really shocking because that is probably the only job I can think of that should be looking specifically for people with a bachelors in Psychology and we are still worthless to them. What a waste of four years! I could have had a completely different major and been in a better position going to a career IN PSYCHOLOGY. I ended up completely re-evaluating my goals and decided to forget about social psychology because, as you said, the job pool isn't even worth it. Here, have an implied upvote because I'm still out of them. Idk why someone downvoted you. I think that someone may be a bit sensitive about having completed a worthless degree... LebaneseKafta and PsychandPhilo 1 1
TheMercySeat Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Here, have an implied upvote because I'm still out of them. Idk why someone downvoted you. I think that someone may be a bit sensitive about having completed a worthless degree... I just hit downvote accidentally. For real :/
TXInstrument11 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 I just hit downvote accidentally. For real :/ :-( Damn, poor angeladl is taking a hit. Hopefully others don't hop on the fake bandwagon.
spunky Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 :-( Damn, poor angeladl is taking a hit. Hopefully others don't hop on the fake bandwagon. well, i upvoted him/her because i do feel like he/she makes a valid point
TheMercySeat Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 :-( Damn, poor angeladl is taking a hit. Hopefully others don't hop on the fake bandwagon. Grad cafe needs an undo function!!!
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